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Posted: 1/26/2006 3:29:55 PM EDT
When you pay the $200 tax for a SBF is that a yearly tax or a one time tax?
And if its a yearly tax what happens if your late on your payment do you jail for having a SBR?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:30:41 PM EDT
Just Once.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:32:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
Just Once.



Thankfully!


and since you pay way up front, there is never a problem with non-payment
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:19:30 PM EDT
The SBR tax, assuming you are talking about making it yourself, is a once time $200 Making Tax. But there is an additional $200 Transfer Tax each time the SBR is sold or transferred. Who pays it does not matter.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:27:02 PM EDT
I never realized that? Are you saying that it's a one time $200 payment if you buy one also? I thought it was $200 each year? Hmm now I'm really wanting an SBR!
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:36:54 PM EDT

Plus, you can deduct it on your federal income tax statement (the year you pay it)

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:44:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 4:58:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Plus, you can deduct it on your federal income tax statement (the year you pay it)




What deduction would that be/ how would i do it? im looking into sbr'in an ar. if i can deduct it, even better.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:05:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By upnorthbacon:
I thought it was $200 each year?



Holy $hit have I been hearing this a lot lately! There is a TON of misinformation about owning NFA items. The 2 most popular seem to be:

1. Tax is paid once a year
2. The ATF can come in your house and inspect your "NFA items" any time they want.



I'll be the designated misinformed on number 2. Could you elaborate?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:08:04 PM EDT
I think the confusion results from the "Class 3 Weapon" misnomer...

A C3 DEALER is subject to ATF visits, private purchasers are not subject to such.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:08:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
Just Once.



You never pay "just once"
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:08:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Brians_45:

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By upnorthbacon:
I thought it was $200 each year?



Holy $hit have I been hearing this a lot lately! There is a TON of misinformation about owning NFA items. The 2 most popular seem to be:

1. Tax is paid once a year
2. The ATF can come in your house and inspect your "NFA items" any time they want.



I'll be the designated misinformed on number 2. Could you elaborate?



If I understand correctly The ATF must contact you and setup a meeting to view the items. I belive you can meet them at their place also ( I knwo you can for C&R to show your log-book not sure about NFA items on this matter(. But they cant just bust into your house or show up they must contact you and establish a meeting time.

Josh
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:10:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mfingar:

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
Just Once.



You never pay "just once"

Four times and counting!



Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:13:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By machinehead:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Plus, you can deduct it on your federal income tax statement (the year you pay it)




What deduction would that be/ how would i do it? im looking into sbr'in an ar. if i can deduct it, even better.



On Schedule A (that you attach to the 1040 for itemized deductions) there is a section on taxes that you paid. It includes state income tax/sales tax, property taxes, etc. There's a line for "Other taxes"

That's where I put it.

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:26:10 PM EDT
Were do you get the forms for the SBR tax?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:30:48 PM EDT
Can you get SBR's in any state?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:30:57 PM EDT
Check the Full Auto forum.

The rest of the SBR answers are there.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:04:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By machinehead:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Plus, you can deduct it on your federal income tax statement (the year you pay it)




What deduction would that be/ how would i do it? im looking into sbr'in an ar. if i can deduct it, even better.



On Schedule A (that you attach to the 1040 for itemized deductions) there is a section on taxes that you paid. It includes state income tax/sales tax, property taxes, etc. There's a line for "Other taxes"

That's where I put it.




Are you wanking my friggin chain or are you serious ? I can really deduct that... Whoa !
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:11:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 7:12:18 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By machinehead:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Plus, you can deduct it on your federal income tax statement (the year you pay it)




What deduction would that be/ how would i do it? im looking into sbr'in an ar. if i can deduct it, even better.



On Schedule A (that you attach to the 1040 for itemized deductions) there is a section on taxes that you paid. It includes state income tax/sales tax, property taxes, etc. There's a line for "Other taxes"

That's where I put it.




Are you wanking my friggin chain or are you serious ? I can really deduct that... Whoa !




I'm certainly not a tax attorney and this certainly isn't legal advice, but it seems pretty simple to me. It's a tax I paid, along with my property tax, etc., and the form has a line for taxes paid, and so I'm putting it on there.

They didn't give me a hard time about it last year, so I'm going to do it every year I get a tax stamp.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:23:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Plus, you can deduct it on your federal income tax statement (the year you pay it)





Explain this... I have several deductions if this is the case.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:26:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:
Explain this... I have several deductions if this is the case.


I started a new thread just for this particular issue (don't want to get this thread off topic; besides, it will probably get more answers there).

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=14&t=266474&page=1
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:57:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aleko:

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:
Explain this... I have several deductions if this is the case.


I started a new thread just for this particular issue (don't want to get this thread off topic; besides, it will probably get more answers there).

www.ar15.com/forums/topi

c.html?b=3&f=14&t=266474&page=1




I didnt think you could deduct..
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 8:56:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:

Originally Posted By Aleko:

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:
Explain this... I have several deductions if this is the case.


I started a new thread just for this particular issue (don't want to get this thread off topic; besides, it will probably get more answers there).

www.ar15.com/forums/topi

c.html?b=3&f=14&t=266474&page=1




I didnt think you could deduct..




Interesting stuff in that thread. People should probably take the word of a tax accountant over mine.


That said, I still think the language on Schedule A is pretty damn clear, and the tax stamp IS a tax, so I'm not sure I personally understand why it wouldn't qualify.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 9:46:13 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 9:53:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 9:54:34 PM EDT by TaylorWSO]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By machinehead:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Plus, you can deduct it on your federal income tax statement (the year you pay it)




What deduction would that be/ how would i do it? im looking into sbr'in an ar. if i can deduct it, even better.



On Schedule A (that you attach to the 1040 for itemized deductions) there is a section on taxes that you paid. It includes state income tax/sales tax, property taxes, etc. There's a line for "Other taxes"

That's where I put it.






Shit hot- Thanks for the tip. I got 3 of them this year
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 12:02:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jcovercash:

Originally Posted By Brians_45:

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By upnorthbacon:
I thought it was $200 each year?



Holy $hit have I been hearing this a lot lately! There is a TON of misinformation about owning NFA items. The 2 most popular seem to be:

1. Tax is paid once a year
2. The ATF can come in your house and inspect your "NFA items" any time they want.



I'll be the designated misinformed on number 2. Could you elaborate?



If I understand correctly The ATF must contact you and setup a meeting to view the items. I belive you can meet them at their place also ( I knwo you can for C&R to show your log-book not sure about NFA items on this matter(. But they cant just bust into your house or show up they must contact you and establish a meeting time.

Josh



They cant see you NFA items AT ALL... only your tax stamp while they wait at the door and they cant come inside. If they ask to see your NFA items tell em to get bent and shut the door.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 4:46:12 AM EDT
I have never heard of any NFA holders being visited by the ATF unless they are being investigated with probable cause. Never even heard of a "drop in" visit. I know of at least 100 NFAs in my area and none of them have ever been "visited" over the last 15 years. Maybe it's just the crowd you hang out with.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 12:09:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

On Schedule A (that you attach to the 1040 for itemized deductions) there is a section on taxes that you paid. It includes state income tax/sales tax, property taxes, etc. There's a line for "Other taxes"

That's where I put it.




The NFA tax is not deductible unless it's paid in the course of doing business. It's not a write-off for most of us. Just because it's done unmolested simply means the IRS hasn't caught it.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 12:41:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:

Originally Posted By jcovercash:

Originally Posted By Brians_45:

Originally Posted By bigbore:


Holy $hit have I been hearing this a lot lately! There is a TON of misinformation about owning NFA items. The 2 most popular seem to be:

1. Tax is paid once a year
2. The ATF can come in your house and inspect your "NFA items" any time they want.



I'll be the designated misinformed on number 2. Could you elaborate?



If I understand correctly The ATF must contact you and setup a meeting to view the items. I belive you can meet them at their place also ( I knwo you can for C&R to show your log-book not sure about NFA items on this matter(. But they cant just bust into your house or show up they must contact you and establish a meeting time.

Josh



They cant see you NFA items AT ALL... only your tax stamp while they wait at the door and they cant come inside. If they ask to see your NFA items tell em to get bent and shut the door.



From Bardwell:

As to one who is neither a FFL nor SOT, but only owns weapons
regulated under the National Firearms Act, ATF may only compel you
to show an agent upon request the registration paperwork, that is
the Form 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or whatever else might have been used to
register the weapon. See 26 U.S.C. sec. 5841(e). They do not have
any right to compel you to produce the weapon. As always the
Fourth amendment applies, and ATF may not enter your home or other
place of storage of the NFA weapon, nor seize the weapon, without
a warrant
, or without falling under an exception the Supreme Court
has created to the operation of the Fourth amendment, or without
your consent.



www.titleii.com/BardwellOLD/nfa_faq.txt
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 12:12:48 PM EDT
Great info here. I am reading between the lines here but it sounds like the $200 tax must be paid for EVERY SBR receiver owned. Is this correct?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 12:16:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By want2race:
Great info here. I am reading between the lines here but it sounds like the $200 tax must be paid for EVERY SBR receiver owned. Is this correct?



Every LOWER not upper. You can have a single SBR lower and as many uppers as you like.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 12:18:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 12:19:44 PM EDT by mongo001]

Originally Posted By upnorthbacon:
I never realized that? Are you saying that it's a one time $200 payment if you buy one also? I thought it was $200 each year? Hmm now I'm really wanting an SBR!



SBR's are not legal in MI. At present is seems that auto weapons and suppressors are about to be legal, if not already legal, but SBRs fall under something else and MI laws don't allow them.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 12:18:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

On Schedule A (that you attach to the 1040 for itemized deductions) there is a section on taxes that you paid. It includes state income tax/sales tax, property taxes, etc. There's a line for "Other taxes"

That's where I put it.




The NFA tax is not deductible unless it's paid in the course of doing business. It's not a write-off for most of us. Just because it's done unmolested simply means the IRS hasn't caught it.



I'd agree with you. Schedule A is for business deductions, not everything you pay taxes on.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 12:29:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JJREA:

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

On Schedule A (that you attach to the 1040 for itemized deductions) there is a section on taxes that you paid. It includes state income tax/sales tax, property taxes, etc. There's a line for "Other taxes"

That's where I put it.




The NFA tax is not deductible unless it's paid in the course of doing business. It's not a write-off for most of us. Just because it's done unmolested simply means the IRS hasn't caught it.



I'd agree with you. Schedule A is for business deductions, not everything you pay taxes on.



Sales tax would be an example of a tax you don't deduct. You ever added up the sales tax you pay? I did it once for three months, every receipt, as much as I could track. It made me sick.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:36:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 1:37:24 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By mongo001:

Originally Posted By JJREA:

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

On Schedule A (that you attach to the 1040 for itemized deductions) there is a section on taxes that you paid. It includes state income tax/sales tax, property taxes, etc. There's a line for "Other taxes"

That's where I put it.




The NFA tax is not deductible unless it's paid in the course of doing business. It's not a write-off for most of us. Just because it's done unmolested simply means the IRS hasn't caught it.



I'd agree with you. Schedule A is for business deductions, not everything you pay taxes on.



Sales tax would be an example of a tax you don't deduct. You ever added up the sales tax you pay? I did it once for three months, every receipt, as much as I could track. It made me sick.




Actually, under the new rules (last year), I believe you CAN deduct sales tax, or at least some amount of sales tax (instead of state income tax, or for states that do not have an income tax) on your federal return.

Plus, schedule A is NOT business deductions, but itemized deductions, used by anyone deducting a home mortgage, local state and property taxes, etc.


BUT - I acknowledge that I am probably wrong about being able to deduct the NFA tax stamp under "Other taxes paid"
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:50:25 PM EDT
Thank you.

Sifting through all the SBR related pages has my eyeballs crossed. I am converting an existing rifle, therefore I have listed the original manf on line 4a. Single caliber, one barrel length, existing serial number included as well.

Section 13 I inserted my name as "name of maker". I think that about does it. The fine print answered my question about "delegated person".

S

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