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Posted: 1/16/2006 3:42:41 PM EDT
I just bought he SpecialWapons for LE magazine just cause I like what I saw on the cover however after reading the complete article they completely bash the M4 carbine as a peace of crap plague with a lot of problems from regular troops to SF personnel, these problems will never be fixed they stated the only solution is wil be a complete new rifle! Also how the new Gen of rifles will fix the problem from FN to HK rilfes ...... pictures of FN rilfe are beautifull and it has a lot of improvement .....
but .....
Does this means the end to AR15 type rifles? are AR / M16 M4 worthless ? what will happen to al AR owners?











Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:43:50 PM EDT
Hello! and welcome to last year!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:53:29 PM EDT
It always help to search before you post on something this publicized.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:54:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:56:46 PM EDT
This is the same magazine the 4-5 times a year has a M4 on the cover and in the articles will rave about the M4...

That rag is pathtic...I stopped buying it years ago..
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:59:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 4:21:43 PM EDT by Variablebinary]
The M4 is slowing becoming old news as new designs start getting the push forward. The M4 is a hard act to follow, so dont expect it to disappear any time soon...unless the SG551 goes public

I'm excited for all the small arms innovations that have appeared recently and undestand that everything has its time and is eventually replaced, that doesnt mean it will vanish, just like the Garand, and M14 still have a following. Hell the M14 has been out of flavor for 40 years and I still consider it the best military style gun you can buy
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:03:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 4:15:12 PM EDT by Ekie]

Originally Posted By nomad9:
Does this means the end to AR15 type rifles? are AR / M16 M4 worthless ? what will happen to al AR owners?




Crystal ball says:

The new web site FNARM.com will render ar15.com obsolete. Ar15.com will just consist of old farts lamenting the "foreign rifle".

Colt will go belly up after loosing their US Govt welfare checks. Bushmaster will buy the name, and stamp the Horsey on their lowers, but no one will buy them because the AR-15 is no longer the in thing. As they say, "and then there was one", that is RRA will be the last AR manufacturer, they will go toe to toe for years against the Mini-14 in competition for feature articles in peridicals, and sales to rural law enforcement agencies. CMMG will design the replacement for the M240 and will eventually become the the most famous firearms company in history, making the names Browning, Maxim, Mauser, Kalashnikov, and Stoner the butt of jokes.

Twenty years later, after the patent runs out on the FN ARM manufactures will copy the rifle the best they can. These copies will be sold as "in use by US Navy SEALs, "in use by Special Forces, "Mil-Spec", and "as good as FN".
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:06:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ekie:
Crystal ball says:

The new web site FNARM.com will render ar15.com obsolete. Ar15.com will just consist of old farts lamenting the "foreign rifle".

Colt will go belly up after loosing their US Govt welfare checks. Bushmaster will buy the name, and stamp the Horsey on their lowers, but no one will buy them because the AR-15 is no longer the in thing. As they say, "and then there was one", that is RRA will be the last AR manufacturer, they will go toe to toe for years against the Mini-14 in competition for feature articles in peridicals, and sales to rural law enforcement agencies. CMMG will design the replacement for the M240 and will eventually become the the most famous firearms company in history, making the names Browning, Maxim, Mauser, Kalashnikov, and Stoner the butt of jokes.

Twenty years later, after the patent runs out on the FN ARM manufactures will copy the rifle the best they can. These copies will be sold as "in use by US Navy SEALs, "in use by Special Forces, "Mil-Spec", and "as good as FN".







Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:13:46 PM EDT
Well shi& anyone want my useless M4? Might as well be an M1 carbine.... Just last wars junk... O Darn... O Dang!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:15:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1IV:
Well shi& anyone want my useless M4? Might as well be an M1 carbine.... Just last wars junk... O Darn... O Dang!



I give you $10 and pay the shipping...
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:15:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dog1:

Originally Posted By Ekie:
Crystal ball says:

The new web site FNARM.com will render ar15.com obsolete. Ar15.com will just consist of old farts lamenting the "foreign rifle".

Colt will go belly up after loosing their US Govt welfare checks. Bushmaster will buy the name, and stamp the Horsey on their lowers, but no one will buy them because the AR-15 is no longer the in thing. As they say, "and then there was one", that is RRA will be the last AR manufacturer, they will go toe to toe for years against the Mini-14 in competition for feature articles in peridicals, and sales to rural law enforcement agencies. CMMG will design the replacement for the M240 and will eventually become the the most famous firearms company in history, making the names Browning, Maxim, Mauser, Kalashnikov, and Stoner the butt of jokes.

Twenty years later, after the patent runs out on the FN ARM manufactures will copy the rifle the best they can. These copies will be sold as "in use by US Navy SEALs, "in use by Special Forces, "Mil-Spec", and "as good as FN".










Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:17:36 PM EDT
BUILDING THE WEAPONS OF TOMORROW, TODAY, AND FIXING THEM YESTERDAY.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:33:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 3:36:03 PM EDT by nomad9]
I know that this is Old News for many Well I guess no one pick up on my sarcasm the whole Idea was to show the constant battering on the AR type rifles from many different sources people manufact etc ....... Also I am not Ignorant you have to serioulsly consider everythinbg that is published that can affect indeed the AR or M16 or M4's if indeed were to be declared worthless ........
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:40:37 PM EDT


I was hoping the SCAR-L upper would fit on my select-fire FNC lower. That picture of the guns disassembled has dashed any hope.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:46:15 PM EDT
Is it just me or does anyone else find the FN SCAR fugly?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:49:58 PM EDT
THE JIG IS UP! YES, ARs ARE OBSOLETE!! SEND ME YOURS AND I'LL ENSURE PROPER DISPOSAL!! I'LL EVEN PAY THE DECOMMISSIONING FEES!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:55:52 PM EDT
Just bought that mag yesterday, old news man
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:59:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:00:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Accuser:
Is it just me or does anyone else find the FN SCAR fugly?



No, there are plenty of you. Don't you guys have a parade in San Francisco every year?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:22:14 PM EDT
This board is harsh! Let's play nice gentlemen.

With that said, it reminds me of the sportbike industry. I have a 2003 Yamaha R6. The new generation came out with the 2006 model year. The way the press talks about it, my like-new R6 just lost 90% of it's horsepower and braking abilities and could in no way trump the new one in a test with a professional racer on it and a inexperienced 9 year-old on the new one. These mags talk like a 5.56 round out of an AR platform will no longer cut through flesh, plastic jugs, or even paper but rather fall away harmlessly.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:25:56 PM EDT
Well just get a POF upper to put on your AR lower and move into the modern days...LOL
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:00:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Accuser:
Is it just me or does anyone else find the FN SCAR fugly?


No, it's just fugly...it seems more complicated than the AR15/M16/M4 also. And bulkier...and I'm pretty sure it's heavier, isn't it? So...why replace the M16A2/A4 and M4 with this? Because of the ambi selector and charging handle? Because of the rails it has? Because of the folding stock? Is it easier to clean? I'm sorry but I don't exactly see the point in replacing the 40(?) year old, battle proven M16 platform with this thing. Can someone explain to me how it's better?

Also, just the SEALS and special forces teams are getting these, right? Or are they gonna be issuing them to the Army, Navy, and Marines?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:17:06 PM EDT
I'll take one of them to go along with my M-4 carbine................just not in tan........maybe black or green
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:37:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dog1:
This is the same magazine the 4-5 times a year has a M4 on the cover and in the articles will rave about the M4...

That rag is pathtic...I stopped buying it years ago..



+1 billion

Same pathetic articles by the same pathetic asshat authors recycled from other pathetic gun magazines.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:20:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 7:22:34 PM EDT by XD_Fan]

Originally Posted By SSeric02:

Originally Posted By Dog1:
This is the same magazine the 4-5 times a year has a M4 on the cover and in the articles will rave about the M4...

That rag is pathtic...I stopped buying it years ago..



+1 billion

Same pathetic articles by the same pathetic asshat authors recycled from other pathetic gun magazines.



Yeah the HK416 article is right out of SAR like two issues ago.

It will be a long, long time before we see the civie version of the SCAR. By then you should be able to by 2006 vintage SCARs from the CMP.

ETA: At least now an AR is an AR and no more of this M4gery horseshit.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:01:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 11:36:57 PM EDT by S-1]
Don't hold your breath. It will be a LONG time before these are issued to anyone if it is at all. The M4 platform is still going to be issued to SOCOM for many years.

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:13:32 PM EDT
A issue of that magazine has never failed to have its authors piss themselves over flying brass.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:33:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Triumph955i:
A issue of that magazine has never failed to have its authors piss themselves over flying brass.



Flying brass is the shit, Yo!
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 12:25:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 12:25:36 AM EDT by Instante]
Man you guys are rough over here on the AR side.......go easy on the guy, it was news to him! He didnt know......and when he saw it, he didnt call his buddies, no, he thought of us, "The gun community" and wanted to shared the great news with enthusiasm. He took a great deal of time photographing the mag, uploading it into a host site. WHY? To share the info with you guys.....a bunch of freakin strangers on the web that differs in a lot of different ways, but share one love..GUNS!

So chill, it was a good intention, a good deed......maybe some people are new here and DID NOT know......

Thanks for the post man. ~


-instante
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 3:52:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SSeric02:

Originally Posted By Dog1:
This is the same magazine the 4-5 times a year has a M4 on the cover and in the articles will rave about the M4...

That rag is pathtic...I stopped buying it years ago..



+1 billion

Same pathetic articles by the same pathetic asshat authors recycled from other pathetic gun magazines.


Ayup
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:11:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 6:12:36 AM EDT by want2race]

Originally Posted By S-1:
Don't hold your breath. It will be a LONG time before these are issued to anyone if it is at all. The M4 platform is still going to be issued to SOCOM for many years.




Do you have any tech or sources to quote to back that up? It won't be as long as you think.
I'm not one to bag on the AR's, I love them but they ARE going to be phased out. I guess it depends on what your view of "LONG" time is. A couple years? 5 years? A decade?


The pics don't come up for me. Is that the same mag with the fiber optic bar on the ACOG circled as flying brass? Top quality
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:18:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 7:51:34 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By nomad9:

pictures of FN rilfe are beautifull



Well if you think of your guns as PURSES, then have at it.




Does this means the end to AR15 type rifles? are AR / M16 M4 worthless ?


Sure, ship yours to me.


what will happen to al AR owners?


We'll all be enjoying our fine weapons.



Also how the new Gen of rifles will fix the problem from FN to HK rilfes



Isn't it funny how every NEW item that is the hot shit ends up being crap and needing to be fixed?


HK is on their 2nd generation of the ubertactical M16 magazine........guess it wasn't good enough.

Remember the OCIC gun that was the future? It failed. G36? Nowhere to be seen.


Next year, you'll be posting some other new gun that is supposed to be 1,000 times better than our pieces of shit. Lol. My 'piece of shit' AR-15 it utterly reliable and dependable.

Where can I buy this Scar? Nowhere. Does it have a proven history? Nope.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:21:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dog1:
This is the same magazine the 4-5 times a year has a M4 on the cover and in the articles will rave about the M4...

That rag is pathtic...I stopped buying it years ago..



And the same shit mag that Featured and Lauded the biggest POS ever... the CARBON 15!!

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 6:24:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By want2race:
I'm not one to bag on the AR's, I love them but they ARE going to be phased out. I guess it depends on what your view of "LONG" time is. A couple years? 5 years? A decade?



Agreed, it will happen, but I ain't guessing when, or what.

Some of use are a bit leery of claims that say such and such is going to replace the "M16". Such "replacements" come and go. Call me jaded, but the current hype on this FN rifle is way to similar to the G36 stuff printed in gun rags a few years back.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 2:21:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Agreed, it will happen, but I ain't guessing when, or what.

Some of use are a bit leery of claims that say such and such is going to replace the "M16". Such "replacements" come and go. Call me jaded, but the current hype on this FN rifle is way to similar to the G36 stuff printed in gun rags a few years back.



You have a good point there. I'm looking at the SCAR with an open mind. Isn't the SCAR just an "improved" version of the FNC that has been around for a while? Same basic concept, just some tweeked internals. Who know's, maybe it will be just the H model that tickles their panties. I can't wait to tear into one personally. Perhaps it's just curiosity though. It will happen soon enough I suppose, until then I will continue to enjoy working on AR's.

FTR: I have seen G36s in use by some U.S. agencies. They don't seem to mind them too much. Holy Grail rifle? Not at all, but it does throw bullets.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 2:47:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 2:48:59 PM EDT by NoAim]
I'm not expecting mainly to replace the M4/M16. It has a long way to go before then.

But for us civvies, it brings alot to the table.
- Heritage from the FNC, FAL, and AR series
- Full-length top rail, and 3 extra foreend rails
- Quick change barrel
- Modern ergonomics for the .308 (and hopefully reliable)
- Elimination of the buffer tube
- Flip up front and rear iron sights
- Adjustable stock
- Moveable charging handle (I prefer mine on the left).

Basically, it's everything most people end up adding to their ARs, but adds a few thing here and there.

And, it looks like they paid attention to the previous complaints. I'd really like to see it take off in the civilian world. If it does get picked up by a large enough government contract, it will be licensed...and then the aftermarket parts start rolling in.

It looks like they have it right for the needs asked for and us. For the rest of the Army/Navy/Marines...who knows?
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 3:01:26 PM EDT
Is it just me or is that guy's cheek like massively flabby? It's practically hanging half over the damn stock!!! Maybe he was one of those wind-tunnel testers back in the day, or a gravitron black-out tester?

Either way, the FN SCAR is a fucking sweet work of art, and I can only hope to one day be using it.

Whoever knocks the SCAR is just well, stupid. I like it a hell of a lot more than the HK 416, and lets face it- FN makes some friggen sweet weapons, from ergonomics down to function and maintenance.



- rem

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 3:04:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 3:04:23 PM EDT by Hatton007]
Not worth the 3.95 for the magazine. I always scan threw it at walmart.
Nothing you can't find here buy asking or googling.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 3:12:07 PM EDT
It has few advantages over the M4. You can build an M4 with most of those advantages, but not all. The biggest negative will be the inability to get match grade performance with the SCAR until domestic manufacturers start making barrels, the fact it has a thinner barrel that will heat up too fast in stock form, and the fact it weighs more than an M$ even though it uses a thinner barrel.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 3:12:51 PM EDT
I'm more interested about the Patriot Arms 338LM they have on the cover.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 3:40:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 3:41:36 PM EDT by olds442tyguy]

Originally Posted By DevL:
It has few advantages over the M4. You can build an M4 with most of those advantages, but not all. The biggest negative will be the inability to get match grade performance with the SCAR.....


There are already both heavy (7.62N) and light (5.56) variants that provide match grade performance. The barrels that have been seen publicly are only the basic barrel configurations.

While the SCAR/ARM may be recieving alot of hype, I don't think comparing it to the G36/XM8 is a fair comparison at all. The ARM rifles got further in two months then the XM8 program got in five years with about twenty times as much funding. HK developed a new rifle off of an existing platform, where as FN built the ARM rifles from scratch. FN paid for majority of the SCAR development, where as HK needed almost 30 million dollars to make a more modular G36.

Aside from that, now that General Dynamics owns the XM8 I wouldn't be surprised if we see a more evolved version in the future.

No one knows for sure what is to happen to the M4/M16 yet. Assuming it's going to get replaced all across the board over night is a pretty large assumption. The same goes for what will end up replacing it. No one will know until it happens.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 3:44:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By nomad9:
Does this means the end to AR15 type rifles? are AR / M16 M4 worthless ? what will happen to al AR owners?




Crystal ball says:

The new web site FNARM.com will render ar15.com obsolete. Ar15.com will just consist of old farts lamenting the "foreign rifle".

Colt will go belly up after loosing their US Govt welfare checks. Bushmaster will buy the name, and stamp the Horsey on their lowers, but no one will buy them because the AR-15 is no longer the in thing. As they say, "and then there was one", that is RRA will be the last AR manufacturer, they will go toe to toe for years against the Mini-14 in competition for feature articles in peridicals, and sales to rural law enforcement agencies. CMMG will design the replacement for the M240 and will eventually become the the most famous firearms company in history, making the names Browning, Maxim, Mauser, Kalashnikov, and Stoner the butt of jokes.

Twenty years later, after the patent runs out on the FN ARM manufactures will copy the rifle the best they can. These copies will be sold as "in use by US Navy SEALs, "in use by Special Forces, "Mil-Spec", and "as good as FN".






Link Posted: 1/17/2006 4:02:52 PM EDT
yep....the M4 is out



in like 2020.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 4:49:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 4:50:00 PM EDT by Firelotus]
oooooooooaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:00:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 5:08:47 PM EDT by PUBBOY]
I hear that the FN SCAR is failing miserably in field testing. The M4 ain't going anywhere...
Why would we scrap the most developed and proven weapon system in history? It seems to me that it's only been in the past few years that the AR platform has come into it's intended form. There is no way we'd scrap the M4 now. Maybe a caliber change, but not a whole new system altogether.
Those magazines are pathetic.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:14:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PUBBOY:
I hear that the FN SCAR is failing miserably in field testing.



Would not surprise me one bit.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:19:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 5:20:18 PM EDT by yfs200]

Originally Posted By Gimme_A_Carbine:

Originally Posted By Triumph955i:
A issue of that magazine has never failed to have its authors piss themselves over flying brass.



Flying brass is the shit, Yo!




Looks like they got a little TOO excited about flying brass. They circled 2 pieces of brass and the fiber-optic tube on the ACOG.



Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:20:28 PM EDT
Bah.

Nothing wrong with a little Gun PrOn every now and then.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:22:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ekie:

Originally Posted By PUBBOY:
I hear that the FN SCAR is failing miserably in field testing.



Would not surprise me one bit.



Not what I have heard. Anywhere. Mind if I ask where you heard that?

The SCAR-L is based on the FNC action, which is a robust and successful one.

I see no reason why the SCAR should be any different unless they changed something in a big way.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:23:26 PM EDT
Say what you will about technology and all the marvelous advances we've made in weapons and killing power. It all boils down to what works and does the job.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 5:24:24 PM EDT
Does FN have any plans on releasing a civilian SCAR to the public anytime soon?
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