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Posted: 1/16/2006 10:11:09 AM EDT
I was shooting my AR yesterday at an indoor range. The farthest distance you can move a target to was 25 yards.

Every one of my shots was about 2-3 inches low of the bullseye. I just couldn't figure out what was causing the problem.

After I got home, I tried finding my sight picture across the living room. Then I tried lifting my glasses up and down slightly but keeping my cheek weld and sight picture the same. I noticed that the sight picture ALWAYS changes location vertically between glasses-on and glasses-off. If I move my glasses slightly lower (so that I'm looking at my sights with the naked eye) the sight picture appears higher.

Do any other shooters with corrective lenses encounter this problem? Freaking light refraction!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 10:22:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 10:28:43 AM EDT by rjay]
It may be the height of the sights above the bore that is causing your problem. 25 yds is very close for an AR . When I first sighted in the 2>7 on my flattop it just happened to be basically dead on at 25 but when I moved to 80 yds [ the max I have at this range ] it was shooting way high [ about 6 " ].

When I go shooting or hunting I wear a Breathe Rite strip to help keep my glasses well up on my nose. I got contacts for a while back when I was motorcycle roadracing. I was not doing any shooting at the time so I don't know how they would have done for iron sights . I had to wear "reading" glasses for doing any kind of close up work like changing jets , etc. I am near sighted and with my glasses I just look over the top or take them off for fine work or reading. { as an aside, the contacts were good for some situations in riding but the first time I tried them on the track the one in my good eye popped out going down the fastest straight I stayed with my glasses after that }.

rj
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:03:42 PM EDT
I suspect that your problem is caused by not being able to look through the optical center of your lenses. If you find yourself looking at the front sight almost over the top of your glasses, that is definitely the problem.

You need a set of these:

Decot Hy-Wyd

They look goofy until you aim a gun while looking through them. Then they are the shiznit!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 1:08:53 PM EDT
Yes, I am having to look at my front sight through the lens just below the top of the frame. It makes a noticeable difference. I just want Lasik.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 1:32:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rjay:
It may be the height of the sights above the bore that is causing your problem.



I suspect this is the primary issue, though the glasses may be enhancing the problem.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 2:16:38 PM EDT
My AR is a RRA Elite CAR A4 flat-top with stock front sight. My rear sight is an ARMS #40. Is there something I should consider with this combination of sights?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 2:29:52 PM EDT
It's the fact that he is looking through the very top part of the lens. That is why other than true shooting glasses it is a bad idea to shoot with glasses. I always use my contacts at the range. That is the only time I ever put them in.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 2:37:48 PM EDT
throw the damned glasses away and get you a SEEING EYE CAT!!!


Your marksmanship will improve overnight!!!!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:23:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 3:23:52 PM EDT by Jaltered]
Ugh.

Contact lenses DO NOT work for my eyes. My eyeballs reject them like crazy. Tears, redness, soreness....ghuh.

Anyways, I'll look into getting some dedicated shooting glasses down the road, and I'll try some shooting without my prescription glasses. I should be focused on the front sight anyways.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:42:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jaltered:
My AR is a RRA Elite CAR A4 flat-top with stock front sight. My rear sight is an ARMS #40. Is there something I should consider with this combination of sights?



Yes as with any rifle you need to consider the height over bore isse when zeroing and shooting. Standard AR15 sights (to include yours) put the sightline 2.6"over the center of the bore. Add in the fact you're shooing a ballistic weapon and not a Laser there will always be a difference between where you aim and where the bullet strikes Except at the zero range.

So if you're zeroed at say 100y, then the bullet should be striking some 2" low at 25y.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:14:08 PM EDT
Oakleys will fix the problem
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:08:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 5:09:10 PM EDT by armaliteuser]
It's always nice to pick the time you shoot and the glasses you wear. But what happens when the choice is not made by you? I always wear the glasses that I always wear (make sense of that statement?)

1) are you wearing progressive lens?
If so they are a big problem not only verticle but side to side as they distort on
the outer edges as well. (try to avoid transition lens if you can if having to move from outside to inside environment quickly and cannot wait for the lens to change which is temperature and
light dependent)

2) If just bifocals get the ones with the lines so you can distinguish the near/midrange/long range area clearly

3) If 3 lense than again no progressive. Get the near, midrange with lines and placed
low and towards nasal portion of the glasses.

4) talk with your optometrist or opthomologist about the fact that you are a shooter and they should be able to direct you towards the best set up for regular day wear and when shooting.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:37:37 PM EDT


Problem Solved
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:47:15 PM EDT
What is the material of your lenses polycarbonate.Oakley also uses poly for there lenses,while they are the most shatter resistant they also provide you with the lowest optical clarity, and they are the least expensive to manufacture.Zeiss does not use that material in ther shooting glaases for that reason . It's a sub standard lens in Europe.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:04:01 PM EDT
I have never been able to see clearly through an optic while wearing my glasses ( I am nearsighted, with a slight astigmatism in my dominant eye). Therefore, I always take my glasses off to shoot through a scope or to look through binoculars. It works for me.

You might try taking your scope (without the rifle) to your optometrist the next time you go to see if you can correct your location issue. Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:19:44 PM EDT
It would surprise you the number of people that have no clue how to focus binoculars.Those eye cups turn for a reason and have diopter markings + - for adjustment. Tom gets it
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 2:42:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 2:51:45 AM EDT by armaliteuser]
Originally Posted By Jaltered:

After I got home, I tried finding my sight picture across the living room. Then I tried lifting my glasses up and down slightly but keeping my cheek weld and sight picture the same. I noticed that the sight picture ALWAYS changes location vertically between glasses-on and glasses-off. If I move my glasses slightly lower (so that I'm looking at my sights with the naked eye) the sight picture appears higher.


It is called "accomidation". You can do the same thing looking at your computer screen and moving your head down to look above your glasses. Look at the top banners. Move only your eyes to focus through corrective lens and then back to computer screen. You should notice glasses lower, non corrected higher even without moving head. (Pupil, anterior chamber and eye lens changes to focus on corrected or non corrected field of vision).

Going more into the physiology or pathophysiology of vision without being able to draw pictures may not help you here.

Go to your optometrist or opthomologist for corrective lense prescription and then if you want go to sports glasses company that provides prescription set ups.

Some shooter's I know where the bifocal up on top of lens so day wear only means head further down to read. Shooting means more midrange on the sights.

Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:29:07 AM EDT
Lasik surgery!

I had mine done on December 28th and I love it.

The surgeon spent some time with me and we decided to try out the mono-vision - where they make one eye purposefully near-sighted for up close and reading. He said that normally he does this to the non-dominant eye. But since I'm cross-dominant (right-handed but left eye dominant) he would make my dominant eye near-sighted. What a difference this has made in my shooting!

My mind has decided that the right eye (which has 20/10 vision BTW) is the more reliable and has almost completely switched dominance to it. I can now shoot with both eyes open and not squinted. It has taken some adjustment to get used to, and I may still have my left eye corrected for distance, but I can force my right eye to be dominant now. I can't do anything for 3 months and I have up to three years to 'fix' the left eye - but then I'll need reading glasses.

But the beauty of being able to see without glasses is more than worth the 5 minutes of surgery. And they gave me a couple of valiums and a darvocet beforehand.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:14:44 AM EDT
I like my Wiley X Romer II's. And they're pretty damn good looking too, until I put them on anyway.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:36:26 AM EDT
I see replies touting Lasik. I considered it until I learned when my wife had hers, that it almost ALWAY ends up requiring the patient to use reading glasses. This means that objects (like sights???) are too close to see clearly. Good shooting technique requires that the shooter focus on the sights rather than the target, so to me, that means shooting AFTER Lasik would be iffy unless dones especially with shooting in mind, as one contributor did. That means doing one eye for distance and one for close work. I'm just not sure I want to deal with the difficulty of having nearsightedness in one eye and farsightedness in the other. Hey, wait. That's my problem now.

As I mentioned, my wife had Lasik surgery, and loves the distance imnprovement, from 20/400 to 20/15. But she can't see close-up unless she uses reading glasses, which as a teacher, requires her to be constantly putting them on and off. So, while she IS pleased with the results, they are not without some disadavantages that everyone must consider for themselves.

The way *I* have solved my problem is that I use Trijicon Reflex sights on ALL of my rifles. They are good out to 350 yards and more, and despite the size of the reticle, I can still make pinpoint shots with them. Now I don't have to worry about focusing on three different planes. I just put the dot where I want the bullet to strike, and it goes there, sometimes using a slight holdover at longer ranges.

As usual, YMMV
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