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Posted: 1/13/2006 1:05:43 PM EDT
Hey guys, Haven't posted here in a while, and haven't shot my AR for a while.. I'm in debt and wana get out.. been thinking of selling the AR... I know there must be some steps for transfering owernship of such a fire arm.. Anyone have steps or know what it is exactly that needs to be done? Also what is a Bushy XM15 M4 A3 worth these days? say... 500 rounds through it and 2 extra 20 rd mags with green followers..?

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:32:25 PM EDT
It's pretty a straightforward process. 1. Decide what it's worth to you. 2. Advertise with a "ship only to a licensed FFL holder" stipulation. 3. Request a copy of the buyer-selected FFL holder's license (signed in red ink I believe) along with payment. 3. If you're taking a check, wait until you're absolutely sure it's cleared the bank!4. Package the rifle carefully and get a signature required/ delivery confirmation when shipping. Number 5 is only if you didn't make your purchase through a FFL who did the appropriate paperwork and transferred ownership to you. 5. If you traded or purchased this firearm through an individual, who wasn't a licensed FFL holder, and you weren't well acquainted with, be absolutely sure it's not listed with law enforcement.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:59:51 PM EDT
make sure it goes to a ffl and verify the ffl.

ink signed in blue but it doesnt really matter anymore since faxed ffl's will work now.

what bbl does the rifle have
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:23:48 PM EDT
But there's nothing juch more i need to do in terms of transfering who's name the gun is in? i.e. out of mine into theirs? Thats more what i was wondering, I was considering Local sale firstly, didnt know if there was paperwork i'd need to have the buyer do..

I'm sorry, Its been a while, what is BBL again?
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:30:46 PM EDT
If you ship the firearm to an FFL, he will be obligated to do the transfer of ownership for you. He'll charge the purchaser a fee for doing the appropriate paperwork. By the way, bbl = barrel. Good luck with your sale!
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:41:07 PM EDT
If your talking twist, i THINK its a 9 in 1.. but dont quote me on that.. its been a while.. I didnt mean to solicit in this forum, didnt know if that was against the rules, I just wanted some feedback, I can post pics if others are interested.. Tho i haven't even decided a price yet :) and one person is already a little interested!
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 2:48:59 PM EDT
FYI, unless you are an FFL or manufacturer, you do not even need to get an actual copy of the FFL... you can just confirm their bona fides on the ATF website. I still recommend getting a copy (so you know that the FFL is expecting the rifle), but fax is OK.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:18:30 PM EDT
this all sounds very complicated, here in maine we just advertise em in the local swap and sell it guide and when someone shows up with cash they own it.hinking.gif
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:21:01 PM EDT
yea but if you give em a gun and they give you cash, isn't it still in your name when they take it?
(is that legal?)
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:22:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 3:26:36 PM EDT by wildearp]

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
FYI, unless you are an FFL or manufacturer, you do not even need to get an actual copy of the FFL... you can just confirm their bona fides on the ATF website. I still recommend getting a copy (so you know that the FFL is expecting the rifle), but fax is OK.



This would be a FACT. You must ship to an FFL. The ink signing is BS these days, because even FFL to FFL where they need the paperwork can now be faxed, per the BATFE, and you can check on line to be sure you are shipping to a valid FFL with the correct address on it. Ink signing or not will not tell you if someone photoshopped or otherwise altered the FFL. Checking with BATFE will.

I also suggest a USPS Money Order, and do not ship until you cash said MO at the post office. If it is a fake, they will tell you instantly. If your bank handles the MO and it is a fake, it will be taken from your account to cover the funds. Yes, this shit does happen. Forged cashiers checks are a big thing too, just say NO.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:24:11 PM EDT
they're not registered with the goverment or anything and there is no law against private sale, as long as the purchaser is from in state.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:24:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 3:25:27 PM EDT by COLT6721A3]
Here is a BILL OF SALE I used for a FTF deal on a P226 I sold ....

BILL OF SALE OF FIREARM


FOR AND IN CONSIDERATION of the sum of Five Hundred Dollars ($500) in hand and of which receipt is hereby acknowledged,


SELLER

hereby grant, sell, transer, convey, deliver and give to

BUYER

The following described Firearm:




MANUFACTURER: SIG SAUER
MODEL: P226 9MM
IDENTIFICATION NUMBER: Uxxxxxx


PAYMENT AND SCHEDULE
The Buyer has paid seller the full purchase price of Firearm. Payment was made via cash.


TITLE and WARRANTY
The Seller declares the following is true:

a. The Seller is the lawful owner of the Firearm and has the legal right to sell the Firearm;
b. That the Seller will warrant and defend the title of the Firearm against any and all unlawful claims and demands of all persons;
c. The Seller warrants, to the best of his knowledge, that the within firearm is not a prohibited or restricted firearm as defined by any Georgia state or Federal law;


BUYER DISCLOSURE
The Buyer warrants that he is of legal age to own a firearm and there there are no orders or conditions, state or otherwise that prohibit the Buyer from owning a firearm.


Seller: Buyer:


Signature ___________________________ Signature ___________________________


Print Name __________________________ Print Name __________________________

Signed December 29, 2005.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:28:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 3:30:44 PM EDT by wildearp]

Originally Posted By COLT6721A3:
Here is a BILL OF SALE I used for a FTF deal on a P226 I sold ....
BILL OF SALE OF FIREARM
FOR AND IN CONSIDERATION of the sum of Five Hundred Dollars ($500) in hand and of which receipt is hereby acknowledged,
SELLER
hereby grant, sell, transer, convey, deliver and give to
BUYER
The following described Firearm:

MANUFACTURER: SIG SAUER
MODEL: P226 9MM
IDENTIFICATION NUMBER: Uxxxxxx
PAYMENT AND SCHEDULE
The Buyer has paid seller the full purchase price of Firearm. Payment was made via cash.


TITLE and WARRANTY
The Seller declares the following is true:

a. The Seller is the lawful owner of the Firearm and has the legal right to sell the Firearm;
b. That the Seller will warrant and defend the title of the Firearm against any and all unlawful claims and demands of all persons;
c. The Seller warrants, to the best of his knowledge, that the within firearm is not a prohibited or restricted firearm as defined by any Georgia state or Federal law;


BUYER DISCLOSURE
The Buyer warrants that he is of legal age to own a firearm and there there are no orders or conditions, state or otherwise that prohibit the Buyer from owning a firearm.


Seller: Buyer:


Signature ___________________________ Signature ___________________________


Print Name __________________________ Print Name __________________________

Signed December 29, 2005.



^^^^^You are in no way obligated to keep track of the buyer, or transaction. This is the boating accident you hear about. Many people just check for a driver's license or a CCW permit. In most places you are under no such obligation. The above form isn't worth much more than the paper it is written on, unless it is notarized and ID verification is performed.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:31:04 PM EDT
I was the original purchaser of the Sig back in 1991 ... in New York State. Not sure what records are kept or not .. I wanted to make sure if anything ever happened that I had proof I do not own the pistol any longer. It is also nice for the purchaser to have a receipt as well proving he didn't steal it, etc ....
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:00:21 PM EDT
The origninal poster is in WA state I believe. In which case he can sell in state w/ no paperwork.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 8:09:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Electricview:
yea but if you give em a gun and they give you cash, isn't it still in your name when they take it?
(is that legal?)



Yes. As long as the buyer is a resident of the same state you live in. You state Washington. You also have to be resonably sure they are not a convicted felon, underage, etc., etc.

So if you sell to your brother/cousin/father-in-law/coworker, etc., you can hand them the rifle with one hand and take the money with the other. Perfectly legal as far as Federal law, and also perfectly legal in most states in the Union. I'm sure Washington is one of those.

If you sell to anyone not a resident of Washington then you need to send it to a FFL holder in that persons state and the dealer will do a background check, 4473, etc., before it it transfered out of their books and to the buyer. But the buyer pays you directly and not the dealer. Although the dealer will probably ask for a nominal fee for their time and effort.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 8:57:40 PM EDT
Not sure about shipping, but at least in NH/VT if you're selling locally you would document buyer information mainly for YOUR protection, should the gun ever be used later in a crime. Nothing is "required".
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:25:57 PM EDT
Step one:I give you 20.00
Step two:You give me the AR
Step three: I laugh all the way to the range.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:17:27 AM EDT
if you sell a weapon locally, i would still recommend going to a ffl dealer and getting it transferred to the buyer. it may cost $25, but you are protecting yourself from all sorts of problems. if you do ship a firearm, check the shippers policies.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:35:44 AM EDT
thats mainly what i'm asking, I want my own protection so if joe-blow goes and buys it from me then sticks up a bank or something with it and kills 3 people they dont somehow link it back to me :) Not that anyone on here would do that, but if i WERE to sell it locally...(obviously i'll sell it where i can get the most scratch for it!)
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:12:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 3:19:47 AM EDT by TrijiCog]

Originally Posted By NVGdude:
The origninal poster is in WA state I believe. In which case he can sell in state w/ no paperwork.



FTF transfers: What are the liabilities when doing this ?In other words,if someone wants to give you $1000 for something that's worth $500,are you even going to care if the guy is a felon or serial killer ? Then the gun you sold the guy is used in a murder,would that not make the seller liable ?


Originally Posted By infsqdldr:
if you sell a weapon locally, i would still recommend going to a ffl dealer and getting it transferred to the buyer. it may cost $25, but you are protecting yourself from all sorts of problems. if you do ship a firearm, check the shippers policies.



$25 would be worth piece of mind to me as well.

In MA,we can do FTF transfers,but we have to fill out a form (done FTF) which transfers ownership of the weapon.I know MA has some stupid laws,but this I agree with.All the seller does after the purchase is send the form to the appropriate state agency,releasing him from any liabilites(I would assume) that may arise from misuse of the weapon.

Only downside to this is we can only do 3 FTF transfers in a year.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:34:42 PM EDT
If i was to want to sell it here, is this forum the right place or is there a sale section of ar15.com ?
And whats a bushy xm15 m4 (i think its a 16 inch) with Y brake go for new rufly? (the stock doesnt actually collapse either, its fixed) post ban..
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:41:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Electricview:
If i was to want to sell it here, is this forum the right place or is there a sale section of ar15.com ?
And whats a bushy xm15 m4 (i think its a 16 inch) with Y brake go for new rufly? (the stock doesnt actually collapse either, its fixed) post ban..



Equiptment Exchange here As far as value,depending on the condition,i would go as high as $100 :)

Mini-y comp isn't that popular in free staes,because they suck.So the cost of taking off the comp and putting a flash hider on it might factor into the selling price a little bit.

Maybe $700-$800,most likely closer to $700 though.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:47:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Electricview:
If i was to want to sell it here, is this forum the right place or is there a sale section of ar15.com ?
And whats a bushy xm15 m4 (i think its a 16 inch) with Y brake go for new rufly? (the stock doesnt actually collapse either, its fixed) post ban..



You can go to the 'Equipment Exchange' and list it there. You must include a price though, I would think around $700 would be fair. Good Luck, sorry to hear that you have to sell your weapon brother.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:03:44 PM EDT
Thanks guys.. listed it there.. asking 800.. i may be crazy i know.. but debt sucks =(
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:19:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TrijiCog:

Originally Posted By NVGdude:
The origninal poster is in WA state I believe. In which case he can sell in state w/ no paperwork.



FTF transfers: What are the liabilities when doing this ?In other words,if someone wants to give you $1000 for something that's worth $500,are you even going to care if the guy is a felon or serial killer ? Then the gun you sold the guy is used in a murder,would that not make the seller liable ?


Originally Posted By infsqdldr:
if you sell a weapon locally, i would still recommend going to a ffl dealer and getting it transferred to the buyer. it may cost $25, but you are protecting yourself from all sorts of problems. if you do ship a firearm, check the shippers policies.



$25 would be worth piece of mind to me as well.

In MA,we can do FTF transfers,but we have to fill out a form (done FTF) which transfers ownership of the weapon.I know MA has some stupid laws,but this I agree with.All the seller does after the purchase is send the form to the appropriate state agency,releasing him from any liabilites(I would assume) that may arise from misuse of the weapon.

Only downside to this is we can only do 3 FTF transfers in a year.



Only downside? Damn, you are a good sheep.

If you sell FTF and you have no knowledge that the person you are selling to is a felon, and sell in accordance with your state laws, you are not liable for his actions with the weapon.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:13:53 PM EDT
+1 good little sheep...baaaahhh baaaaahh
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 3:29:08 PM EDT
What should i know about shipping/selling it to someone out of the country? Someone from finland has offered my new asking price of 750, but im' a tad weary cuz of scams i get when i try to sell musical gear.. I figure its the same thing, tho users here are pretty repuable, is there anywhere i can search for a particular users profile to view their posts ect? (i.e. if this person is a senior member with alot of posts, no worries, tho if he only has 1, that would worry me a tad)..

The biggest thing for me is i want to make sure that the gun isn't in my name after i sell it, i dont want some police visiting me in 2 years saying the gun was used in a crime and i'm the registered owner!
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:38:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 9:39:21 PM EDT by out-a-ammo]

The biggest thing for me is i want to make sure that the gun isn't in my name after i sell it, i dont want some police visiting me in 2 years saying the gun was used in a crime and i'm the registered owner!


Fog God's sake, just sign a receipt with two copies and forget about it. Stop being so paranoid!

So what if the police come to you two years later (it's happened many times), just tell them you sold it.

If you don't sell the gun to someone you know can't own it, you are in no way responsible for what happens with it afterwards.

And you wouldn't be the registered owner (your gun is not registered), you would be the last known owner.

Nothing is beter for dissuading gun confiscation in this country than lots of dead end paperwork.

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:46:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sagiguere:
this all sounds very complicated, here in maine we just advertise em in the local swap and sell it guide and when someone shows up with cash they own it.


+1, that's how it works in almost all states.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:48:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Electricview:
yea but if you give em a gun and they give you cash, isn't it still in your name when they take it?
(is that legal?)


The gun is never "under your name" unless you live in a state that has gun registration.

As far as the Federal Government is concerned, face to face firearm sales between two individuals who are not otherwise banned from gun ownership are perfectly legal. Some states regulate such sales, but they are few. California, New Jersey, Massachussetts, and I think New York do.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:51:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Electricview:
What should i know about shipping/selling it to someone out of the country? Someone from finland has offered my new asking price of 750, but im' a tad weary cuz of scams i get when i try to sell musical gear.. I figure its the same thing, tho users here are pretty repuable, is there anywhere i can search for a particular users profile to view their posts ect? (i.e. if this person is a senior member with alot of posts, no worries, tho if he only has 1, that would worry me a tad)..

The biggest thing for me is i want to make sure that the gun isn't in my name after i sell it, i dont want some police visiting me in 2 years saying the gun was used in a crime and i'm the registered owner!


YOU ARE NOT THE REGISTERED OWNER!!!!!!!!!!!!

THERE IS NO REGISTRATION AT THE FEDERAL OR WHASHINGTON STATE LEVEL!!!!!!!!!!

STOP BEING SO FUCKING PARANOID!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND DON'T SELL THE GUN TO SOMEONE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY, YOU WILL NEED STATE DEPARTMENT AUTHORIZATION TO EXPORT THE RIFLE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:46:30 PM EDT
Ahh okay, so no no on out of the states.. got it..

So there isn't paperwork at a federal building somewhere that says i own this bushmaster rifle? same with handguns? I allways thought thats why they have you fill everything out and such..

Whats a local swap? How do i find one and advertise in one?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:23:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 5:24:24 PM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By Electricview:
Ahh okay, so no no on out of the states.. got it..

So there isn't paperwork at a federal building somewhere that says i own this bushmaster rifle? same with handguns? I allways thought thats why they have you fill everything out and such..

Whats a local swap? How do i find one and advertise in one?


The paperwork you fill out at the dealer stays at the dealer until they go out of business. The phone call they make to the FBI never includes the serial number of the gun. And any record of that phone call is erased within 24 hrs if your purchase is approved.

And even if the ATF came asking you, all you need to tell them is that you sold it, you don't remember who it was, and you don't have any record. WTF are they going to do? Nothing. That's what.

ETA: gun ownership is serious business. You need to do your homework regarding the law. And I mean like looking up the ATF FAQs, and your state gun laws on line.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:23:18 PM EDT
Why do you think i started this topic? Sorry i just think the last thing in your post was a just a hair on the side of dis-respectful, insinuating that i'm now taking this serious.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:36:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Electricview:
Why do you think i started this topic? Sorry i just think the last thing in your post was a just a hair on the side of dis-respectful, insinuating that i'm now taking this serious.


If you can find this website, you can also find the ATF's and the WA DOJ's and get your info first hand.

You're lucky a lot of people here understand the law and how it works. That is NOT the case in many forums I've lurked on.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 10:01:51 PM EDT
And thats exactly why i asked, I respect how much more information people here have (and the validity of it!), i wouldn't have taken it all as fact information, but it would have given me a direction to go in. Like the simply reply above about not even bothering with shipping it out of the country, That probably saved me an hour of research and i know now not to even bother..And i appreciate it from everyone on this thread. It was just a starting point, and i am taking it serious.

Thank you everyone!
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