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Posted: 1/13/2006 1:02:58 PM EDT
I heard a rumor that S&W is going to run a new AR at the Shot Show. Their M&P 15. So what is the scoop? Is there already a thread on this? If so just point me in that direction and lock this one. Seems that everyone is jumping on the AR bandwagon.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:28:05 PM EDT
S&W copying another item made by Colt. Where is American engering to come out w/ something better.

Sig and S&W both come out w/ a 1911 and know S&W is going to play copycat again.

Lazy people i see.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 8:48:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 8:58:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
S&W copying another item made by Colt. Where is American engering to come out w/ something better.

Sig and S&W both come out w/ a 1911 and know S&W is going to play copycat again.

Lazy people i see.



yes but S&W did put a twist on the 1911 with the Scandium frame... I have one in Commander size and it is SuWHEET..
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/Christmas2005019.jpg
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:01:43 PM EDT
i dont liek the smith 1911's or as a matter of fact any 1911 clone with exteranl extracot, it jsut looks plain wrong, why fix shit that isnt broke??
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:02:50 PM EDT
Don't forget Smith's Sigma/Glock thing.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:10:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
i dont liek the smith 1911's or as a matter of fact any 1911 clone with exteranl extracot, it jsut looks plain wrong, why fix shit that isnt broke??



It wasn't broke, Smith and Wesson just made it better. The SW1911 beats the shit out of the POS Kimber I had and the Kimber had the original extractor. I'd give a S&W the benifit of doubt if they come out with an AR. It's not like they could any worse than Hesse.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:14:31 PM EDT
external extractor= hundreds of rounds so far and not 1 single falure right out of the box..
im not baggn the internal im just saying?hinking.gif
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:21:13 PM EDT
At different times in the past S&W has held goodly chunks of the law enforcement market.
Seems to me that any firearms company that can increase it's share of this law enforcement market is doing "Good Buisness" for it's shareholders/owners .
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:42:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dirknar:

Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
S&W copying another item made by Colt. Where is American engering to come out w/ something better.

Sig and S&W both come out w/ a 1911 and know S&W is going to play copycat again.

Lazy people i see.



yes but S&W did put a twist on the 1911 with the Scandium frame... I have one in Commander size and it is SuWHEET..
i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/Christmas2005019.jpg



Yes, I can see it now............S&W announcing the Worlds first Scandium AR - Hell, I wouldn't past them, my 4 inch 500 S&W Magnum hand cannon is truly a impressive piece of machinery. When it bark's it's a head turner
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 10:19:00 PM EDT
SW has yet to come up w/ thier own design in a while....the only good lines they sell are thier 1911 and revolver lines

everything else is just not up to par (even the copies)
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 10:21:14 PM EDT
Hopefully this is true.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 11:58:23 PM EDT
Don't you all know that s&w makes 1911 slides for Colt,and Kimber.
don't be mad! do some research and you will find this true!
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:37:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
SW has yet to come up w/ thier own design in a while....the only good lines they sell are thier 1911 and revolver lines

everything else is just not up to par (even the copies)



The S&W M&P is pretty damn original.

Honestly, I could give two shits if they make an AR or not. If it's good enough to buy, I'll buy one. If it sucks, I won't.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:06:40 AM EDT
I hadn't seen it and I don't like it lol
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:19:50 AM EDT
Somewhere around here there is a thread on High Standard making ARs too. Who cares?
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 2:28:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 5:16:03 AM EDT
I'm looking forward to SHOT. Hopefully we'll see S & W with scandium AR receivers and Glock with durable carbon fiber/polymer lower.

**Note. The latter is my fantasy and it isn't based on any hints, rumors or a shred of evidence to suggest it is true.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 5:50:41 AM EDT
Since S&W is once again in the business of building good firearms and no longer anti-gun, (no longer owned by anti-gun conglomerates) I think it's a good idea to support them. A good, solid, U.S. BASED FIREARMS COMPANY with a long history should be supported.

The one big thing people can complain about with the SW1911 is the extractor? A lot of custom houses used to make pivoting extractor 1911 slides because the machined, spring steel claw that Mr. Browning invented is a pain to manufacture and to tweak. They didn't tinker with things like adding a magazine safety for crying out loud... (that's the one thing I dislike about my S&W 9mm).

So if S&W does start building ARs then more power to them. I might even buy one if they offer something I can't get elsewhere.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 5:54:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
S&W copying another item made by Colt. Where is American engering to come out w/ something better.

Sig and S&W both come out w/ a 1911 and know S&W is going to play copycat again.

Lazy people i see.



John Browning created the 1911 for the military, and the contract for producing them just happened to be awarded to Colt. Stoner created the AR for the military and the contract for producing them just happened to be awarded to Colt. Does this make Colt lazy since they didn't create the design themselves? I don't think so.

Today there are at least 15 major manufacturers of the 1911, and we all know that there are several major manufacturers of the AR platform. To criticize S&W for doing the same thing is ridiculous. I think they make some fine firearms, and I would seriously consider a S&W AR if it was well made, performed well and had the features I wanted. To think that they can't also produce a fine AR product is narrow minded.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 5:55:59 AM EDT
Seems to me that they are late into the AR game with too many players already on the field.

Colt
Bushmaster
Armalite/Eagle
DPMS
Hesse
Olympic
CMT
L­MT
HK
Sabre
Stag
High Standard
RRA
Superior
Ameetec
Glo­bal Tactical
ASA
Sun Devil
Fulton Armory
Les Baer
Wilson
Vulcan
CMMG
LAR
ZM­
PWA
Lauer
Double Star
POF
Mega
MGI

And there's probably more.

I'd like to see something new, or maybe a lower priced piston upper.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 5:55:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dennysguns:
I have some industry insider info on what is going into these rifles. Stay posted on them. The will have some very good parts involved. I can't talk about it.

If the rifle is top quality at a reasonable price I say "Welcome to the market". The more we have to choose from the better as long as it is good gear.

If you are going to criticize Smith for making an AR you might as well blast everyone else except Colt Armalite.

Denny



Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:20:02 AM EDT
There are literally dozens of great receivers out there. And there are two reasons why one gets picked over another. Price and the receiver markings. How many people, myself included, would rather buy a RRA receiver than a Stag, just because of the logo? And vice versa. I've been checking the posts and you can get a Stag, Mega and RRA receiver within $10 of each other. For $10, I'll get the markings I like. For $30-50 more, I won't.

I normally see Bushmasters going for considerably more than the Stag or RRA and all I can figure is that People just want the name and they'll pay more for it. Understanding that, If S & W offers a receiver and/or a complete rifle, made of quality components, for a price comparable to Bushmaster and RRA, they'll sell.

I'm just surprised that Springfield Armory hasn't jumped into the market. I like their logo!
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:48:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dorsai:
I normally see Bushmasters going for considerably more than the Stag or RRA and all I can figure is that People just want the name and they'll pay more for it.



A lifetime warranty would have nothing to do with it................................
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 6:52:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:02:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tedster:

John Browning created the 1911 for the military, and the contract for producing them just happened to be awarded to Colt.



Colt's did not "happen" to get the contract on the M1911, they set out to get it on purpose.

John Browning and Colt's reached an agreement in 1896 where by Colt's would sell Browning designed pistols. The agreement included the provision that Colt's would pay Browning $1 for each pistol.

Colt's and John Browning worked to together on the pistol that was adopted as the M1911.


Originally Posted By Tedster:
Stoner created the AR for the military and the contract for producing them just happened to be awarded to Colt.



Again, this did not just happen. The AR-15 had potential, Fairchild the owner of ArmaLite, and thus the owner of the AR-15 did not see it. Colt's did see the potential of the design, and paid cash money, the sum of $75,000 and a royalty of 4.5% on future production. Colt's then took the design, redid every major part from the flash hider to the buttstock screw getting the rifle adopted as a Standard A US Service rifle in 1967, investing approximately $5,000,000 in the process.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:08:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:25:25 AM EDT
Welcome S&W; me, I hope american ENGINEERING has not gone the way of American SPELLING...
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:29:25 AM EDT
I hope they do come into the AR-15 market. I mean, it can only bring good for the AR-15 consumer.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:31:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:38:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Dorsai:
I normally see Bushmasters going for considerably more than the Stag or RRA and all I can figure is that People just want the name and they'll pay more for it.



A lifetime warranty would have nothing to do with it................................



Too bad Bushmaster doesn't offer one.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:48:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 7:53:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:05:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By spaceghost:
Don't you all know that s&w makes 1911 slides for Colt,and Kimber.
don't be mad! do some research and you will find this true!





Please show me this. Or is it a joke, and I didn't get it?
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 8:37:46 AM EDT
Well look how late they jumped on the 1911 band wagon.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 9:23:17 AM EDT
So we are going to have another gun made by LMT or CMT with a Shaw barrel but stamped with S&W and marked up 50%.

BFD
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 10:52:05 AM EDT
Its not where the parts are made that is important, its the quality of those parts that matter.

If S&W markets a quality product, I wish them the best of luck. I can't think of many, if any AR company that makes everything in house, so outsourcing doesn't offend me in the least.



This SHOT is going to release a large amount of new items, toys and ideas. This will be only one of them.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 11:18:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:


Colt hasn't had one fucking original idea since the 1876 revolver.

What fucking kool-aid drinker.........

M1911: John Browning

AR15: Eugene Stoner

Colt Light Rifle: Sauer

Get the point?
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:32:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 1:38:14 PM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By scottryan:


Colt hasn't had one fucking original idea since the 1876 revolver.

What fucking kool-aid drinker.........

M1911: John Browning

AR15: Eugene Stoner

Colt Light Rifle: Sauer

Get the point?



What a fucking moron....

Post 1876 achievements:

Colt 2000 (A pistol ahead of it time that proved they could be made out of lightweight materials, ie Glock, Sigs)
Python/Anaconda (one of the most successfull DA revolvers)
Match Target/Woodsman/Challenger (One of the most successful .22 pistols)
Complete redesign of the AR-15 and carbine variants (one of the most success combat rifles in the world)
ANM2 .30 Aircraft gun (Complete in house redesign of the Brng. .30 Cal MG.)

Also....

By your "logic", Ruger's Mini-14 is not of "Ruger" origin since it was designed by Jim Sullivan. Many popular firearms in existance were never designed "in house".

This just shows how clueless you are.

Get the point?



Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:39:15 PM EDT
The point many are making in this thread is not who is copying who.


The point is the market is saturated and it is time to move on.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 1:45:51 PM EDT
Perhaps that market is saturated, but that is how things improve. I don't think the AR15 has ever enjoyed the popularity that it currently does. More companies making them is never a bad thing, if anything, it keeps costs down as the market stays flooded.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:00:54 PM EDT
I just hope S&W doesn't try to add some kind of stupid key lock to the lower. Honestly, I will be kind of surprised if they don't considering it's something they've done to everything else they make these days. One big reason I will not purchase a recent production S&W anything.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:06:46 PM EDT
Could they make "pre-1994 AWB" rifles from there plant in Mass?
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:27:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:39:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 3:40:12 PM EDT by AbominableNo-Man]

Originally Posted By Badkennedy:

Originally Posted By spaceghost:
Don't you all know that s&w makes 1911 slides for Colt,and Kimber.
don't be mad! do some research and you will find this true!





Please show me this. Or is it a joke, and I didn't get it?



S&W has been making 1911 parts for a while, it was just recently that they decided to put their own cartouche on them. I know that the early Kimbers had slides and frames that were made by S&W.

I don't think they make them for Colt, though.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:42:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 3:44:30 PM EDT by Kreutzberg]

Originally Posted by TheSaint2004
Could they make "pre-1994 AWB" rifles from there plant in Mass?


Yes
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:45:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By scottryan:


Colt hasn't had one fucking original idea since the 1876 revolver.

What fucking kool-aid drinker.........

M1911: John Browning

AR15: Eugene Stoner

Colt Light Rifle: Sauer

Get the point?



What a fucking moron....

Post 1876 achievements:

Colt 2000 (A pistol ahead of it time that proved they could be made out of lightweight materials, ie Glock, Sigs)
Python/Anaconda (one of the most successfull DA revolvers)
Match Target/Woodsman/Challenger (One of the most successful .22 pistols)
Complete redesign of the AR-15 and carbine variants (one of the most success combat rifles in the world)
ANM2 .30 Aircraft gun (Complete in house redesign of the Brng. .30 Cal MG.)



Every single one of them is either out of production or a total loser in its market segment.

Colt is a commercial failure, through and through.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 3:51:15 PM EDT
If they're quality, only a fool wouldn't welcome them to the market.

Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:15:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By scottryan:


Colt hasn't had one fucking original idea since the 1876 revolver.

What fucking kool-aid drinker.........

M1911: John Browning

AR15: Eugene Stoner

Colt Light Rifle: Sauer

Get the point?



What a fucking moron....

Post 1876 achievements:

Colt 2000 (A pistol ahead of it time that proved they could be made out of lightweight materials, ie Glock, Sigs)
Python/Anaconda (one of the most successfull DA revolvers)
Match Target/Woodsman/Challenger (One of the most successful .22 pistols)
Complete redesign of the AR-15 and carbine variants (one of the most success combat rifles in the world)
ANM2 .30 Aircraft gun (Complete in house redesign of the Brng. .30 Cal MG.)



Every single one of them is either out of production or a total loser in its market segment.

Colt is a commercial failure, through and through.



I would have to agree on the second statement. Colt lives of its military ties and its name. Nothing else.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:28:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 4:37:38 PM EDT by Derek45]
I don't think the COLT 2000 was designed by COLT.

Reed Knight designed it and traded it for all COLTS cool prototype guns.

I think Mr. Knight came out WAY ahead.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:29:42 PM EDT
I'd buy one just for the hell of it.

Max
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