Quoted: Somewhere around here there is a thread on High Standard making ARs too.  Who cares?

I would say that alot of people who visit a website called AR.15.COM would care about a new source of AR-15s.

hey i'm all for it. If htey make a good product I"ll look into buying one....

I'm currently saving for one of the SIG 55x series rifles and after that I'll be in the market for a Mini-14 an A2setup AR...

SO basically I'm glad to hear that they might be looking at it. I like my smith revolvers alot and I'd like to see what they can do with the AR platform

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Colt hasn't had one fucking original idea since the 1876 revolver. What fucking kool-aid drinker......... M1911: John Browning AR15: Eugene Stoner Colt Light Rifle: Sauer Get the point? What a fucking moron.... Post 1876 achievements: Colt 2000 (A pistol ahead of it time that proved they could be made out of lightweight materials, ie Glock, Sigs) Python/Anaconda (one of the most successfull DA revolvers) Match Target/Woodsman/Challenger (One of the most successful .22 pistols) Complete redesign of the AR-15 and carbine variants (one of the most success combat rifles in the world) ANM2 .30 Aircraft gun (Complete in house redesign of the Brng. .30 Cal MG.) Every single one of them is either out of production or a total loser in its market segment. Colt is a commercial failure, through and through.

Which ones were a total loser?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Colt hasn't had one fucking original idea since the 1876 revolver. What fucking kool-aid drinker......... M1911: John Browning AR15: Eugene Stoner Colt Light Rifle: Sauer Get the point? What a fucking moron.... Post 1876 achievements: Colt 2000 (A pistol ahead of it time that proved they could be made out of lightweight materials, ie Glock, Sigs) Python/Anaconda (one of the most successfull DA revolvers) Match Target/Woodsman/Challenger (One of the most successful .22 pistols) Complete redesign of the AR-15 and carbine variants (one of the most success combat rifles in the world) ANM2 .30 Aircraft gun (Complete in house redesign of the Brng. .30 Cal MG.) Every single one of them is either out of production or a total loser in its market segment. Colt is a commercial failure, through and through. I would have to agree on the second statement.  Colt lives of its military ties and its name.  Nothing else.

I was proving Colt has made something post 1876.

Quoted: I don't think the COLT 2000 was designed by COLT. Reed Knight designed it and traded it for all COLTS cool prototype guns. I think Mr. Knight came out WAY ahead.

Didn't Stoner design it?

At that time, I believe Stoner would have been at Knights (1980's), since that is the time the SR-25 was being developed.

This is kinda historic right?  2006: The year TOO MANY Ar-15s were made.  

Quoted: At that time, I believe Stoner would have been at Knights (1980's), since that is the time the SR-25 was being developed.

Damn I'd love to have one of those

I'm excited! I'm a huge S&W fan, and so far with their 1911 and SWxVE series pistols they have been a winner when it comes to value and quality.

I don't know, but I think it would be sweet to have a lower with the S&W logo on it

Just to point something out....

I am not against SW making a AR-15.  I think it is great that a major American gun company (one of the Big 4) has the balls to come out with something evil and black.

However, I also believe the market is saturated with AR-15s and I would like to see some American companies come out with some new military firearms to get back the firearms industry from Europe.  

An industry which we once had almost complete dominance.  I know some of this is due to our restrictive gun control, so we may never get all of it back.

Quoted: Since S&W is once again in the business of building good firearms and no longer anti-gun, (no longer owned by anti-gun conglomerates) I think it's a good idea to support them.  A good, solid, U.S. BASED FIREARMS COMPANY with a long history should be supported.

IIRC, the American company that bought S&W is a trigger lock company.  I still don't support them.  

BTW, what about the deal that S&W made with the devil/clinton.  Just because W is not enforcing it, does not mean that the next anti won't.  Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this.

Quoted: I just hope S&W doesn't try to add some kind of stupid key lock to the lower. Honestly, I will be kind of surprised if they don't considering it's something they've done to everything else they make these days. One big reason I will not purchase a recent production S&W anything.

+1 on that.  I do not buy anything with a trigger lock on it.  

Quoted: Seems to me that they are late into the AR game with too many players already on the field. Colt Bushmaster Armalite/Eagle DPMS Hesse Olympic CMT LMT HK Sabre Stag High Standard RRA Superior Ameetec Global Tactical ASA Sun Devil Fulton Armory Les Baer Wilson Vulcan CMMG LAR ZM PWA Lauer Double Star POF Mega MGI And there's probably more. I'd like to see something new, or maybe a lower priced piston upper.

GSE = Gunsmoke Enterprises

Quoted: Quoted: Colt hasn't had one fucking original idea since the 1876 revolver. What fucking kool-aid drinker......... M1911: John Browning AR15: Eugene Stoner Colt Light Rifle: Sauer Ultra Light Arms, now the New Ultra Light Arms, ala Mr. Forbes, and what great rifles they are...I love all of mine Get the point?

Fixed it for ya!

Colt is really good at living off government welfare, but innovation isnt their strength. Their Socom pistol entry was a joke, and they havent addressed the JCP trails, SCAR or the M8. No one cares about their M5 either. It is as DOA as HK's XM8

And if S&W does join the AR15 market it can only be good for them and us, because choice is never a bad thing

Quoted: Quoted: John Browning created the 1911 for the military, and the contract for producing them  just happened to be awarded to Colt.   Colt's did not "happen" to get the contract on the M1911, they set out to get it on purpose. John Browning and Colt's reached an agreement in 1896 where by Colt's would sell Browning designed pistols.  The agreement included the provision that Colt's would pay Browning $1 for each pistol. Colt's and John Browning worked to together on the pistol that was adopted as the M1911. Quoted: Stoner created the AR for the military and the contract for producing them just happened to be awarded to Colt.   Again, this did not just happen.  The AR-15 had potential, Fairchild the owner of ArmaLite, and thus the owner of the AR-15 did not see it.  Colt's did see the potential of the design, and paid cash money, the sum of $75,000 and a royalty of 4.5% on future production.  Colt's then took the design, redid every major part from the flash hider to the buttstock screw getting the rifle adopted as a Standard A US Service rifle in 1967, investing approximately $5,000,000 in the process.

You, sir, are incorrect if you're trying to give Colt credit for inventing the 1911or the AR.  Of course Colt deserves credit for perfecting the AR, but my point is that you can't call any company who produces a 1911 or AR "lazy" because they're producing an existing design that they didn't invent (including Colt).  If yet another company decides to also produce the AR, they should be welcomed, and not criticised (unless they produce crapola!).

I also agree with some of the comments about the lack of innovation for new firearm designs.  Why are all of these European gun makers kicking our tails in new products and innovation?

S&W has not had a good track record when it comes to long guns.

If S&W does market their interpretation of the AR15, I wonder what, if any, influence Ernie Langdon had on it. I think he's a sharp guy who would steer them towards producing a rifle that's geared towards the tactical shooter.

Tag.

WIZZO

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: John Browning created the 1911 for the military, and the contract for producing them  just happened to be awarded to Colt.   Colt's did not "happen" to get the contract on the M1911, they set out to get it on purpose. John Browning and Colt's reached an agreement in 1896 where by Colt's would sell Browning designed pistols.  The agreement included the provision that Colt's would pay Browning $1 for each pistol. Colt's and John Browning worked to together on the pistol that was adopted as the M1911. Quoted: Stoner created the AR for the military and the contract for producing them just happened to be awarded to Colt.   Again, this did not just happen.  The AR-15 had potential, Fairchild the owner of ArmaLite, and thus the owner of the AR-15 did not see it.  Colt's did see the potential of the design, and paid cash money, the sum of $75,000 and a royalty of 4.5% on future production.  Colt's then took the design, redid every major part from the flash hider to the buttstock screw getting the rifle adopted as a Standard A US Service rifle in 1967, investing approximately $5,000,000 in the process. You, sir, are incorrect if you're trying to give Colt credit for inventing the 1911or the AR.

Far as incorrect goes, the incorrect statement was yours, you know the bit about Colt's "just happened" to get a contract for the M1911 and the M16 series.  It went like this:

Quoted: John Browning created the 1911 for the military, and the contract for producing them  just happened to be awarded to Colt.

Quoted: Stoner created the AR for the military and the contract for producing them just happened to be awarded to Colt.

I stand by my post as being correct, rather then just being silly revisionist history.

double post

Quoted: Colt is really good at living off government welfare, but innovation isnt their strength.

That is one way of twisting the fact that the longest serving Standard A US Service pistol, and the longest Serving US Service Rifle are Colt's.  Is there a reason to put that in a negative light?  Guess stuff like that "just happens" to non innovated companies?

Quoted: Their Socom pistol entry was a joke, and they havent addressed the JCP trails, SCAR or the M8. No one cares about their M5 either. It is as DOA as HK's XM8

Why should Colt's "address" the XM8 when it is as you say "DOA"?

Yes, FN is a threat to Colt's dominance of Western infantry rifles.  We shall see how that shakes out.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Don't you all know that s&w makes 1911 slides for Colt,and Kimber. don't be mad! do some research and you will find this true!hr Please show me this.  Or is it a joke, and I didn't get it? S&W has been making 1911 parts for a while, it was just recently that they decided to put their own cartouche on them. I know that the early Kimbers had slides and frames that were made by S&W. I don't think they make them for Colt, though.

Yes, Colt also!please someone varify this as I read this in a article a year or so back. Seems it is more cost effective and colt & kimber subs there slides to S&W. it was in a magazine with thousands of australian guns being run over by a steamroller in the front cover, one of those smaller pro gun magazines!NO

Quoted: You, sir, are incorrect if you're trying to give Colt credit for inventing the 1911or the AR.  Of course Colt deserves credit for perfecting the AR, but my point is that you can't call any company who produces a 1911 or AR "lazy" because they're producing an existing design that they didn't invent (including Colt).  If yet another company decides to also produce the AR, they should be welcomed, and not criticised (unless they produce crapola!). I also agree with some of the comments about the lack of innovation for new firearm designs.  Why are all of these European gun makers kicking our tails in new products and innovation?

BLUE:  This is wrong.


RED:  Oppressive gun control laws.  American companies do not want to take the chance and invest in new designs if they can't sell them to civilians and recoup their cost if they do not get awarded any military contracts.

It is also due to European companies being substidized by the EU and having an "unlimited" amount of $$ to invest in new designs.

Quoted: Quoted: Colt is really good at living off government welfare, but innovation isnt their strength. That is one way of twisting the fact that the longest serving Standard A US Service pistol, and the longest Serving US Service Rifle are Colt's.  Is there a reason to put that in a negative light?  Guess stuff like that "just happens" to non innovated companies? Quoted: Their Socom pistol entry was a joke, and they havent addressed the JCP trails, SCAR or the M8. No one cares about their M5 either. It is as DOA as HK's XM8 Why should Colt's "address" the XM8 when it is as you say "DOA"? Yes, FN is a threat to Colt's dominance of Western infantry rifles.  We shall see how that shakes out.

XM8 was HK's horrid non-compete attempt at replacing the AR15, the M8 will be the designation of the next military assualt rifle possibly. The two should be mostly interchangable but people usually associate XM8 with HK instead of any weapon considered experimental before becoming the M8, hence XM8. Confusing to some, but I know you of all people know the difference.

HK XM8 = DOA
XM8 trials = who knows with so many different trials being solicited for currently

Colt has had a good relationship with the military in the past but Uncle has done quite a bit to break away from Colt in the past 20 years. Colt would have almost no contract if they wouldnt have sued over the M4 TDP, and they pulled some dirty politcal tactics when the XM9 trials were going on to keep their 1911 on the frontlines. They could have invented a new gun for M9, but noooo, they tried to pull strings instead...lack of innovation perfectly illustrated.

Dont try and come back with the Colt SSP which was nothing more than a 1911 and a complete POS that failed the majority of the requirements for XM9

Beyond the M16 and 1911, in terms of military arms colt has done virtually nothing for 30 years. They have failed to introduce any designs beyond the base M16 platform, their 1911 market has been eroded to nothing in the face of Kimber, Springfield, and STI. Their new designs are a joke and inferior to other manufacturers in both pistols and long guns. The government continues to purchase  1911's, but give their business to Kimber and Springfield. One has to wonder why

So here is what Colt does best now: Sue their competition, get government bailouts, support bans that protect their market, but hurt gun owners, make really crappy efforts like the M5 and SOCOM pistol, lobby senators to prevent the federal goverment from buying weapons from companies like HK, and other foul tactics to keep from going under. Colt isnt a good company and hasnt been for a long time. They have been on the edge of complete financial ruin numerous times because they have no idea how to make new firearms, perfect the designs and market them

But hey they park under the FSB so they must be okay...we should overlook everything else about them right?

Quoted: XM8 was HK's horrid non-compete attempt at replacing the AR15, the M8 will be the designation of the next military assualt rifle possibly. The two should be mostly interchangable but people usually associate XM8 with HK instead of any weapon considered experimental before becoming the M8, hence XM8. Confusing to some, but I know you of all people know the difference. HK XM8 = DOA XM8 trials = who knows with so many different trials being solicited for currently

That would make sense, if big Army was looking to a new US Service rifle.  My understanding is that the XM8 program was backwards.  As in there was a project manager that tried to get his pet adopted, rather then the big Army looking for a Service Rifle.  Have not paid much attention, but I thought the whole thing was dropped?  Weren't the trials to be held last Summer cancelled?

Quoted: Colt has had a good relationship with the military in the past but Uncle has done quite a bit to break away from Colt in the past 20 years. Colt would have almost no contract if they wouldnt have sued over the M4 TDP,

Yes, the TDP to the M16/M4 being possessed by private industry has been quite bothersome to the US Army.  No doubt the next service rifle will be negotiated with better terms for the US Government.  Could not help but notice that the TDP issue for the SCAR rifles was addressed before the trials were even held.

Quoted: and they pulled some dirty politcal tactics when the XM9 trials were going on to keep their 1911 on the frontlines.

The best account of the story behind the adoption of the M9 that I have is in MODERN BERETTA FIREARMS, it makes no mention of "dirty political tactics" used by Colt's.  Anyhow, Colt's had no financial interest in maintaining the M1911A1 as a Standard A Service Pistol in that the last contract was filled in 1945.

Quoted: They could have invented a new gun for M9, but noooo, they tried to pull strings instead...lack of innovation perfectly illustrated.

Again, unaware of the "string pulling", got a source for that?

Quoted: Beyond the M16 and 1911, in terms of military arms colt has done virtually nothing for 30 years. They have failed to introduce any designs beyond the base M16 platform, their 1911 market has been eroded to nothing in the face of Kimber, Springfield, and STI. Their new designs are a joke and inferior to other manufacturers in both pistols and long guns.

As far as military arms goes, during the last 30 year  "base M16 platform" has been a smashing successes.  Far as the M1911A1 goes, the fork was stuck in that one in 1945 once the war was over.

Quoted: So here is what Colt does best now: Sue their competition, get government bailouts, support bans that protect their market, but hurt gun owners, make really crappy efforts like the M5 and SOCOM pistol, lobby senators to prevent the federal goverment from buying weapons from companies like HK, and other foul tactics to keep from going under. Colt isnt a good company and hasnt been for a long time. They have been on the edge of complete financial ruin numerous times because they have no idea how to make new firearms, perfect the designs and market them But hey they park under the FSB so they must be okay...we should overlook everything else about them right?

You skipped over their biggest accomplishments for now, that being the licence agreement met with Turkey for the M4 Carbine, and their licence agreement recently signed with the US Government for the M4 Carbine, one that includes listing Colt's as the sole source through 2011 for the Standard A US Service Carbine.  Funny how you leave little details like that.

Nothing wrong with my Colt AR, it shoots sweetly.

Far as the M1911A1 goes, the fork was stuck in that one in 1945 once the war was over

I suppose Springfield and Kimber give their wares to the marines for free

I seriously doubt that S&W have invested in making AR's, my suspicion is that they are buying them from another manufacturer and branding them S&W.  Just what the market needs huh?  Another AR, exactly the same as all the others with zero innovation!
I hope I'm wrong
HFG

Quoted: I seriously doubt that S&W have invested in making AR's, my suspicion is that they are buying them from another manufacturer and branding them S&W.  Just what the market needs huh?  Another AR, exactly the same as all the others with zero innovation! I hope I'm wrong HFG

I like a competitive market, but people making AR15's is really pseudo competition, since no matter who you buy from, you're still getting an AR15.

Now if smithy picked up Sig's or Steyr's  tooling and put out something not seen on the American market in  a long time, I would welcome that move more

Time for Colts Innovation put to the test:
So the 1911 market was dead, time for a new design to replace the 1911, what does Colt make, another freaking gun that is basically a 1911 all over again. How creative

Colt SSP that was owned by the SIG 226 and Beretta M9


So Colt didnt win the M9. What about Socom, surely they would put a great effort into getting this market right. I mean, the government doesnt seem to want a 1911, and colt has a chance to make something new and win a fat contract. So what does colt do? MAKE ANOTHER 1911!! WTF?!!

So creative, I am in awe. No wonder HK won

Colt OHSW SOCOM pistol


Flat out, Colt has shown no means of creativity in terms of making new firearms. Browning and Armalite are why there is a Colt today. I am seriously wondering what the hell Colt is going to do when the M16 is pulled from the frontlines.

Quoted: Far as the M1911A1 goes, the fork was stuck in that one in 1945 once the war was over I suppose Springfield and Kimber give their wares to the marines for free

Those numbers are so small as to not be worthy of this comment.

Quoted: Quoted: Far as the M1911A1 goes, the fork was stuck in that one in 1945 once the war was over I suppose Springfield and Kimber give their wares to the marines for free Those numbers are so small as to not be worthy of this comment.

Spoken like a true art major, because Colt has so many markets and successful product lines that they can afford to not chase every dollar possible.

One trick ponies are the first to get turned to glue when their tricks no longer impress

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Far as the M1911A1 goes, the fork was stuck in that one in 1945 once the war was over I suppose Springfield and Kimber give their wares to the marines for free Those numbers are so small as to not be worthy of this comment. Spoken like a true art major, because Colt has so many markets and successful product lines that they can afford to not chase every dollar possible. One trick ponies are the first to get turned to glue when their tricks no longer impress

Again, not worth comment, but I did major in art.

Quoted: Time for Colts Innovation put to the test: So the 1911 market was dead, time for a new design to replace the 1911, what does Colt make, another freaking gun that is basically a 1911 all over again. How creative Colt SSP that was owned by the SIG 226 and Beretta M9 www.gun-world.net/old/italy/beretta/92_96/colt_spp1.jpg So Colt didnt win the M9.

Agreed, Colt's should have seen that coming, and been better prepared.

Quoted: What about Socom, surely they would put a great effort into getting this market right. I mean, the government doesnt seem to want a 1911, and colt has a chance to make something new and win a fat contract. So what does colt do? MAKE ANOTHER 1911!! WTF?!! So creative, I am in awe. No wonder HK won Colt OHSW SOCOM pistol www.mark23.com/CGKBIA/colt-socom.jpg

Fat contract, how many were ordered, and when was the last contract?

Quoted: Flat out, Colt has shown no means of creativity in terms of making new firearms. Browning and Armalite are why there is a Colt today. I am seriously wondering what the hell Colt is going to do when the M16 is pulled from the frontlines.

Sam Colt has been dead a long time, so I don't see why they should not have used products invented by the firearms geniuses of the time.  Not like they ripped them off, they were paid.  Should they have told Mr Browning to take a hike, that Carl Ehbets was their man, and he would become a inventive genius at any moment?  When Fairchild was looking to dump such things as the AR-15 should Colt's have said, gee that has promise, but we will get our own idea, just any time now.  

Should Izhmash have given Kalashnikov the boot with his "not invented here" rifle?

Get real, you make no seance at all.  If you want to be a major player in the realm of military small arms, your best bet is to work with firearms geniuses, such as Stoner and Browning.  To not do that is goofy.

I don't share your concern for Colt's future after the M16 runs out, got my own problems.

Wouldn't mind a scandium upper/lower.  I like S&W's 1911, and their new M&P looks interesting.  However, knowing S&W these days, they would probably figure some way to put one of those damn locks on it.

Also, I don't give two craps, well, not even one crap, if Colt survives or not.  They aren't making any guns that I find interesting.  They aren't the sole producer of ar-15 types.  Basically, they offer me nothing.  That my change, but I doubt it.  They are so into their military contracts (and by all rights that's fine) that they don't really care about the civlian consumer.  Just because they make a good product, does not mean I care about them.  They only sell one gun that I am interested in buying, and I can get that at a consierably cheaper price.  So...there you have it.  At least S&W sells guns to people.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: John Browning created the 1911 for the military, and the contract for producing them  just happened to be awarded to Colt.   Colt's did not "happen" to get the contract on the M1911, they set out to get it on purpose. John Browning and Colt's reached an agreement in 1896 where by Colt's would sell Browning designed pistols.  The agreement included the provision that Colt's would pay Browning $1 for each pistol. Colt's and John Browning worked to together on the pistol that was adopted as the M1911. Quoted: Stoner created the AR for the military and the contract for producing them just happened to be awarded to Colt.   Again, this did not just happen.  The AR-15 had potential, Fairchild the owner of ArmaLite, and thus the owner of the AR-15 did not see it.  Colt's did see the potential of the design, and paid cash money, the sum of $75,000 and a royalty of 4.5% on future production.  Colt's then took the design, redid every major part from the flash hider to the buttstock screw getting the rifle adopted as a Standard A US Service rifle in 1967, investing approximately $5,000,000 in the process. You, sir, are incorrect if you're trying to give Colt credit for inventing the 1911or the AR. Far as incorrect goes, the incorrect statement was yours, you know the bit about Colt's "just happened" to get a contract for the M1911 and the M16 series.  It went like this: Quoted: John Browning created the 1911 for the military, and the contract for producing them  just happened to be awarded to Colt.   Quoted: Stoner created the AR for the military and the contract for producing them just happened to be awarded to Colt.   I stand by my post as being correct, rather then just being silly revisionist history.

Ekie, I think you must be a little slow to comprehend.  No matter what you say, I'm not going to believe that Colt invented the AR or the 1911.  I'm not going to defend how they got the military contracts because I really don't care and it has nothing to do with the point of my post.  My point is that Colt happened to be the first to produce these designs, they didn't actually invent them.  I'm not trying to bash Colt, I'm just saying that any firearms company who also produces these designs isn't "lazy".  If I didn't know better, I would think that you worked for Colt.  It seems like all you're doing in your posts is defending Colt.  I'm simply defending the firearms industry and saying that it's OK if they're want to also make an AR and make some money.  Competition usually produces a quality product for a good price.

Quoted: Quoted: You, sir, are incorrect if you're trying to give Colt credit for inventing the 1911or the AR.  Of course Colt deserves credit for perfecting the AR, but my point is that you can't call any company who produces a 1911 or AR "lazy" because they're producing an existing design that they didn't invent (including Colt).  If yet another company decides to also produce the AR, they should be welcomed, and not criticised (unless they produce crapola!). I also agree with some of the comments about the lack of innovation for new firearm designs.  Why are all of these European gun makers kicking our tails in new products and innovation? BLUE:  This is wrong. RED:  Oppressive gun control laws.  American companies do not want to take the chance and invest in new designs if they can't sell them to civilians and recoup their cost if they do not get awarded any military contracts. It is also due to European companies being substidized by the EU and having an "unlimited" amount of $$ to invest in new designs.

Wow, I didn't realize that you could simply re-write history on this forum.  I guess Colt DID invent the AR and the 1911, and NOT Stoner and Browning.  And I guess that the only company that should ever be allowed to make AR's and 1911's is Colt.  If I keep reading I wonder what else I can learn.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Colt hasn't had one fucking original idea since the 1876 revolver. What fucking kool-aid drinker......... M1911: John Browning AR15: Eugene Stoner Colt Light Rifle: Sauer Ultra Light Arms, now the New Ultra Light Arms, ala Mr. Forbes, and what great rifles they are...I love all of mine Get the point? Fixed it for ya!

Yep.  I was going to point out what you did.  

Colt did sell Sauer bolt action rifles as the Colt Sauer.

Lets say the rumors are true and S&W does make an AR15, it really might be too late in the game to play, but I think S&W has some big cards to play because of their name.

If FN and SIG really start chasing a civilian market share the AR15 world is going to get hurt hard and fast and the market share wont be as big.

Time will tell. SHOT will provide many answers I hope. I remember when people said it would be forever impossible to get a P90

Quoted: I'm not going to defend how they got the military contracts because I really don't care and it has nothing to do with the point of my post.

I will accept that as the explanation for your statements.  That being you don't care, and as a result don't have a clue what you were talking about when you posted the following:

Quoted: John Browning created the 1911 for the military, and the contract for producing them  just happened to be awarded to Colt.

Quoted: Stoner created the AR for the military and the contract for producing them just happened to be awarded to Colt.

My first reaction was that the explanation for your posts was this:

Quoted: Wow, I didn't realize that you could simply re-write history on this forum.

Rather then simple ignorance from one that "really don't care".

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Colt hasn't had one fucking original idea since the 1876 revolver. What fucking kool-aid drinker......... M1911: John Browning AR15: Eugene Stoner Colt Light Rifle: Sauer Ultra Light Arms, now the New Ultra Light Arms, ala Mr. Forbes, and what great rifles they are...I love all of mine Get the point? Fixed it for ya! Yep.  I was going to point out what you did.   Colt did sell Sauer bolt action rifles as the Colt Sauer.

Right about that. Interestingly enough, these are the only Colt made "Black Rifles" that I own, but I guess that they didn't even make them, just market them...and we should all hope that General Dynamics has had enough shop time to put out a decent weapon...

Quoted: i dont liek the smith 1911's or as a matter of fact any 1911 clone with exteranl extracot, it jsut looks plain wrong, why fix shit that isnt broke??

I don't liek exteranl extracots either.

I'll take my 1911 opinions from someone who can spell them.

(proud owner of a flawless S&W 1911, and one very shitty-running Kimber)

Quoted: I'm simply defending the firearms industry and saying that it's OK if they're want to also make an AR and make some money.  Competition usually produces a quality product for a good price.

Ekie is not arguing the point that it is or isn't OK for someone else to make a AR-15.

Quoted: I heard a rumor that S&W is going to run a new AR at the Shot Show. Their M&P 15. So what is the scoop? Is there already a thread on this? If so just point me in that direction and lock this one. Seems that everyone is jumping on the AR bandwagon.

Are they going to put child lock on it?

How are the sellers, big and little, going to make any money on ARs when the market is even more saturated? Well, I guess we could be optimistic that the market will continually expand, like Microsoft: A Black Rifle on Every Desk!

John

Quoted: They didn't tinker with things like adding a magazine safety for crying out loud... (that's the one thing I dislike about my S&W 9mm). .

Then do what I've done w/my 645 and 9mm/40 S&W combo gun. Take the damn thing out!

Maybe i'm missing something but isn't Scandium heavier than Aluminum? Perhaps it could be used in an upper reciever to add strength to the barrel nut attachment point. I thought it was just being used in pistols because it was lighter than steel and aluminum wouldn't hold up in those particular applications.

I'd actually like to see a standard ambidextrous mag release and safety. You can't mess with the safety because then you would need non-standard fire control parts (oh wait). I can think of a few designs that would be truly ambidextrous yet still use stanag magazines though. Not that the Norgon Ambi-Catch isn't good, but i'd like to see something different instead of a band aid fix. Maybe even make the buttons the same on both sides with a fence on the left side too.

Quoted: Maybe i'm missing something but isn't Scandium heavier than Aluminum?

In its nominal Scandium frames, S&W only uses a small amount of Scandium in an Aluminum alloy mix.  The added Scandium serves strengthen the Al alloy.  I really doubt there is much difference in weight.

Quoted: I'd actually like to see a standard ambidextrous mag release and safety. You can't mess with the safety because then you would need non-standard fire control parts .

I was just thinking, S&W could put a safety like that on my old 6906 on their rifle.  The 6906 safety was ambi and removed from the left side of the slide.

Maybe the girls will get lucky and they will also produce a "LadySmith" version of the rifle.

All joking and Colt bashing aside, I have been a fan of S&W since I shot my father's old model 10 that was nearly silver from holster wear.  Although I do not currently carry one, I still consider most of tehm very well designed and built guns (except for the Sigma series).  I think that if they do decide to produce an AR15 it will be just as good an any produced today.  Lets just hope their market timing is better than the almost forgotten S&W 76.

Sarge