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Posted: 1/11/2006 5:20:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 5:24:56 PM EDT by Glock_10mm]
I wanted a budget rail for mounting my Tango Down VFG and Surefire 9P. I thought I could get by with a set of $20 "imported" rails from CTD. Hey they're even aluminum which I thought was a good thing since I'm right around 10lbs with my M4-type carbine. No such luck.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/M855/Jan.jpg

Well at least it came with 2 rails so I have a temporary fix but it puts me in the market for a new real rail. And at least it didn't happen when my life was counting on the rifle to work.

Where can I find a good deal on a rail? Can I get by with aluminum or is steel really the way to go?

Save the Chinese Leaper's garbage for the Airsoft guns.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:23:22 PM EDT
You didn't get a rail, you got crap. Sorry, but that's the way it is. So far everything I've seen or heard about Leapers is bad.

There are a lot of all-aluminum rail systems. The material was not the issue. The issue was that the part you had was poorly made. It looks like it was a casting that just broke because it was all amorphous and not at all treated for strength. And not aluminum is worth using; the good stuff is made from some specialized grades of aluminum for strength.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:29:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 5:35:22 PM EDT by Hellhound]
D'oh!!!


I would invest in the GGG rail.


www.gggaz.com/products/ar15ufir.php
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:29:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 6:02:19 PM EDT by Trey-W]

And at least it didn't happen when my life was counting on the rifle to work.


Then why not pony up the 100-130 dollars to buy a REAL rail system? YHM or MI are solid rail systems that do not cost much?

That is your best only option.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:42:11 PM EDT
Buy cheap-Get cheap...

You only get what you pay for...
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:50:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 6:00:40 PM EDT by Glock_10mm]

Originally Posted By Hellhound:
D'oh!!!


I would invest in the GGG rail.


www.gggaz.com/products/ar15ufir.php



Thanks alot. I'm sure that's a good piece, but boy it ain't cheap. I honestly thought I could get a solid reliable rail in the $20-30 range. I'm keeping an eye out for something from a reputable place but I'll keep this in mind. Here it is for $36.


Originally Posted By Trey-W:

And at least it didn't happen when my life was counting on the rifle to work.


Then why not pony up the 100-130 dollars to buy a REAL rail system? YHM or MI are solid rail systems that do not cost much?

That is your best only option.



I don't like 4 rail handguards. I don't like the way they look, or feel, even with covers. Granted I'm not using the forearm as a grip a whole lot anyway... Unfortunately I also think that would be the only way to get a solid mount for the vertical fore grip.

Then again my Surefire being pointed down at an angle isn't real likely to cost me my life! Possible of course.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:03:07 PM EDT
Get the rails made by AAC..

Brownell's has them and they are 100 times better than that pot metal crap that CTD sells.

AAC rails

I used one for 2 years with ZERO problems.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:09:54 PM EDT
What about using the Vltor rail? I have heard good things about it but it is pricey and may be a bit more than what you want. BUt I like the fact that you can mount rails where you want them.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:04:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:08:21 PM EDT

It definitely serves as a lesson. I don't suppose this will also dissuade you from getting involved in too many more ACOG clone war threads, huh?
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:12:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
WE GUARANTEE RAIL MADE OF 100% METAL!!! MADE FROM BEST MELTED SODA CANS AND POTS IN SHANG HAI!



Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:40:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
It definitely serves as a lesson. I don't suppose this will also dissuade you from getting involved in too many more ACOG clone war threads, huh?



I suppose not because I don't see the relationship between a garbage leaper's rail and a ACOG clone on a range gun.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 7:54:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 9:37:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 9:38:41 PM EDT by Glock_10mm]
Well in defense of this junker rail if I had used the other screw that went in the end that broke it wouldn't have happened I guess.

I used the other one that came with it (all 4 screws too) as a temporary fix, but I will be getting something reliable to fix it when funding allows. My money, for a while, is going towards another pistol!
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:24:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 10:39:58 PM EDT by Lord_Vulcanizer]

Originally Posted By theshootersden:
Buy cheap-Get cheap...

You only get what you pay for...



+1 I think that guy would have been better off using BLACK tape!!!!

Edit to add: One nice rifle + one nice lite + one crap rail is = to a fine prom date + one horny dude ready to go + one gas station shithouse vending machine condom = a lifetime of wishing you had spent an extra fifty cents and bought a brand name condom

Oh yea, I must add my disclaimer as I am well into a bottle of Canadian Mist as I have had a bad day!!! I hate to say it but it feels good that I am not alone, I just wish my bad day was as cheap as a 20 dollar rail

Mine is an 18,000 dollar tahoe q4 sport that the bass pro shops-tracker marine in destin screwed up today. I had them install a bow cover and the 'tech' drilled one of the holes out of alignment. They are tellin me that they can fix it and I'll never notice the patch...I kinda doubt it.

Wes
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:09:11 PM EDT
you have a TG grip, a surefire 9p--why skimp out on the rail?

NEVER buy chicom made crap....just another warning
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:31:57 PM EDT
Man thats awful it broke like that.....sad....

Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:56:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:
Well in defense of this junker rail if I had used the other screw that went in the end that broke it wouldn't have happened I guess.

I used the other one that came with it (all 4 screws too) as a temporary fix, but I will be getting something reliable to fix it when funding allows. My money, for a while, is going towards another pistol!



So, you installed it incorrectly and it broke? hmm...


is this what it looked like before it snapped?


That just looks messed up.
You'd be better off getting a barrel clamp.

Bummer you had to learn the hard way...but at least there are proper alternatives.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:58:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:
I don't like 4 rail handguards. I don't like the way they look, or feel, even with covers.

Don't let looks influence your firearms purchases. Read my sig for more info.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:21:11 AM EDT
Is this one of the polymer ones or is it a type of metal? I missed what it was made from.

Midway sells quite a few metal and polymer rails for cheap $

I would BET that had you installed it correctly, it would have held up a little longer.

Is this really just for the range? I'm not seeing the need for a Surefire on a range gun.

At least now with the light pointing DOWN, you won't shadow the barrel so much
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:32:24 AM EDT
Jeepers Creepers, you broke your Leapers.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 11:28:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 11:32:20 AM EDT by fq1234]

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:



Thanks alot. I'm sure that's a good piece, but boy it ain't cheap. I honestly thought I could get a solid reliable rail in the $20-30 range. I'm keeping an eye out for something from a reputable place but I'll keep this in mind. Here it is for $36.




$35.61 doesn't seem out of line to me for something that is well made. It's only $5.61 out of your range. Why not pony up the extra $5.61?

$35.61 for a piece of machined aluminum seems like a better value to me than a $50 plastic grip. (Nothing against TD, I have a couple).
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 1:27:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 1:37:37 PM EDT by Glock_10mm]

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
If they can't make a simple rail that holds up....how can they make something as complicated as an ACOG that is built to last?



They can't make something as durable and technologically advanced, but they can make a cheap imitation that is likely worth the money you pay for it.

Lord_Vulcanizer - Best of luck with that sir.


Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
you have a TG grip, a surefire 9p--why skimp out on the rail?

NEVER buy chicom made crap....just another warning



I thought ANY metal rail would be tougher than the handguard...I guess not. Besides, Cheaper Than Dirt called it "imported"! I thought wine and cigars are better if imported, why not gun parts?


Originally Posted By GhostRing:
So, you installed it incorrectly and it broke? hmm...

is this what it looked like before it snapped?
hr


No that is a post snapping picture.

Yes, "incorrectly" like you call it as I would've had to tweak the handguard a bit to get all 4 rail holes lined up with the vent holes. I did that with the spare one that was conveniently packaged with this one. I was wondering what I'd do with that anyway.



Bummer you had to learn the hard way...but at least there are proper alternatives.
hr


A new rail and maybe even a rail/sling mount on the front sight!



Originally Posted By Matt_B:

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:
I don't like 4 rail handguards. I don't like the way they look, or feel, even with covers.

Don't let looks influence your firearms purchases. Read my sig for more info.



I'm a firm believer that form follows function, but I really dislike 4 rail forearms, maybe they'll have a place on my SBR one day but not on my primary carbine. They weigh more than I care to have up there.


Originally Posted By JosephR:
Is this one of the polymer ones or is it a type of metal? I missed what it was made from.


Aluminum, that was it's main selling point to me other than it was economical (cheap)


Midway sells quite a few metal and polymer rails for cheap $

I would BET that had you installed it correctly, it would have held up a little longer.



Don't worry, my heat shields bent pretty handily enabling me to put the 4th screw there on the spare. I was trying to avoid dicking it up much, but failed there.


Is this really just for the range? I'm not seeing the need for a Surefire on a range gun.


Yes and SHTF, Patrolling, Home Defense, Hinking, Camping, Plinking, Polecat/Quillpig Blasting, Picking up Women, Making Sandwiches, Etc. And I wasn't about to put a cheap junk flashlight on there.


At least now with the light pointing DOWN, you won't shadow the barrel so much hr


Actually wasn't an issue for me at all.


Originally Posted By gks452:
Jeepers Creepers, you broke your Leapers. hr


ha ha
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:09:36 PM EDT
It's that thick, made of aluminum and just cracked? I think there's something you aren't telling us.

DD forends don't weigh much more than double heatshield M4 handguards- that's what I've heard. It's definitely not something you'll notice.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:14:22 PM EDT
Its probably due to how it was manufactured, or should I say, started out... It could be cast aluminum not forged...
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:23:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 3:29:53 PM EDT by Glock_10mm]

Originally Posted By JosephR:
It's that thick, made of aluminum and just cracked? I think there's something you aren't telling us.



Yes I was on duty at the mall (I'm a mall security guard by trade) and 5 perps (bums) got the drop on me, I was attacked and beaten with my rifle.

The area where it cracked isn't thick on the sides, that being the spot where the bipod mount/sling swivel is supposed to go
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/M855/mini-Jan06005.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/M855/mini-Jan06006.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/M855/mini-Jan06007.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/M855/mini-Jan06008.jpg

It's most definately cast aluminum.

As far as not noticing the weight of a 4 rail forend goes, there's a reason my nice 6 1/2lb carbine now weighs 10lbs.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:31:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
you have a TG grip, a surefire 9p--why skimp out on the rail?

NEVER buy chicom made crap....just another warning



I thought ANY metal rail would be tougher than the handguard...I guess not. Besides, Cheaper Than Dirt called it "imported"! I thought wine and cigars are better if imported, why not gun parts?






sorry, for gun parts, if it says "imported" and no country of origin in mentioned, and the price is pretty cheap--its more than likely going to be made in china, taiwan, or korea, etc...all not that great manufactures for durable, quality stuff
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:51:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:

Originally Posted By JosephR:
It's that thick, made of aluminum and just cracked? I think there's something you aren't telling us.



Yes I was on duty at the mall (I'm a mall security guard by trade) and 5 perps (bums) got the drop on me, I was attacked and beaten with my rifle.

The area where it cracked isn't thick on the sides, that being the spot where the bipod mount/sling swivel is supposed to go
i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/M855/mini-Jan06005.jpg
i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/M855/mini-Jan06006.jpg
i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/M855/mini-Jan06007.jpg
i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/M855/mini-Jan06008.jpg

It's most definately cast aluminum.

As far as not noticing the weight of a 4 rail forend goes, there's a reason my nice 6 1/2lb carbine now weighs 10lbs.



How do you get a 3.5 lb weight gain from:
EOTech: 11.5 oz
Surefire 9p: 6.4 oz
TangoDown VG: 5 oz (guestimation - assuming it weighs less than a surefire)
= 23 oz = 1.5 lb

Hell you have 2 more lbs of cheap commie shit to add to it before you notice any weight gain.

if this matters:

And at least it didn't happen when my life was counting on the rifle to work.

Then get a real damn rail system
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:02:40 PM EDT
2lbs of cheap commie shit? No thanks I try to skip that as a rule. The rail is the only thing that fits that category.

And no, I don't want a rail system, I don't like them, still. I want one rail where it is, and one on either or both sides of the front sight post.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:03:59 PM EDT
Did you cheapers ?
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:16:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:
Yes I was on duty at the mall (I'm a mall security guard by trade) and 5 perps (bums) got the drop on me, I was attacked and beaten with my rifle.



Damn man, I thought I was the only mall security guard that has happened to...




Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:
It's most definately cast aluminum.



Its a conspiracy... Those communist bastards are trying to bankrupt this country by forcing us to by American made quality parts the second time around...
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:16:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 4:18:22 PM EDT by boltcatch]
First off, the GG&G rail is worth the money. If you can't afford it, you obviously should have bought a Romanian AKM clone or an SKS, not an AR-15.

I helped my buddy put together his first AR; he wanted a vertical foregrip, but for the sake of simplicity I steered him towards the GG&G rail. It's a nice piece, and keeps the rifle light, cheap(er) and simple.

Second, if you want to mount a light, you're probably better off putting that light at 2 O'clock anyways, with a short section of bolt on rail made for that purpose. Or better yet, just mount the darn thing to the FSB. Plenty of dealers here on Arfcom can hook you up with those parts.

AR-15 + made in China crap = not good.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:35:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:
2lbs of cheap commie shit? No thanks I try to skip that as a rule. The rail is the only thing that fits that category.

And no, I don't want a rail system, I don't like them, still. I want one rail where it is, and one on either or both sides of the front sight post.



Isn't that the reason for rail covers? Hmmm...
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:42:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 4:44:53 PM EDT by BravoCompanyUSA]
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:03:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 5:07:09 PM EDT by JosephR]

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:
2lbs of cheap commie shit? No thanks I try to skip that as a rule. The rail is the only thing that fits that category.

And no, I don't want a rail system, I don't like them, still. I want one rail where it is, and one on either or both sides of the front sight post.



you are a flatout dumbass. cheap commie shit? you support ACOG knockoffs jackass...

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:15:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
You don't have to resort to the Chicom parts to get a deal on the products your looking for.

MI # 03 Rail Made in U.S.A. Machined from bar stock

www.bravocompanyusa.com/images/Img392.gif

Its only $19.50, same pricing as Hu Jintao charges.




At that price it would get my cash before Hu Jintao

In defence of the china rail, if you had it fully secured it wouldn't have snapped. By not using the front screw you put to much torque on the rail at a weak spot especially with that long ass light on there. Cheap must be done right or you will be.


Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:57:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 10:03:52 PM EDT by Glock_10mm]

Originally Posted By CPUFed:
Isn't that the reason for rail covers? Hmmm... hinking.gif



I do not like rails or rail covers!


Originally Posted By JosephR:
you are a flatout dumbass. cheap commie shit? you support ACOG knockoffs jackass...

hr


Well I think you're a flat out c---suck so go talk shit in some other thread where your garbage is relevant. Do you see a fucking ACOG "clone" on my rifle? No, I have the top of the line EOTech. Did I say anything about an ACOG "clone" other than it would probably be an alright optic to throw on a range gun? No!

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:25:34 PM EDT
Look at BravoCo's post.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 6:29:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jollyroger:
Look at BravoCo's post.



That really doesn't look long enough for the VFG and light mount, but that's not an issue if I move the light up to the front sight I suppose.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:11:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 7:14:01 PM EDT by Dog1]
Oh for love of..kids..settle down!

Here-Brownell's

Top of the page is a pic, of the AAC extended rail..yes Brownell's is out of them at the moment, but it will have enough real estate to mount a VG and a light.
You can also get them from AAC-AAC

I know it's sturdy and a hell of alot tougher than some pot metal crap. Know how I know? I had one for over 2 fracking years and it's top notch and under $30! With everything you need to mount it.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:25:52 PM EDT
Sorry but I was thinking you were the one who stepped into the ACOG clone thread to give me some shit when I was condemning them. Were you not? Oh, you just wanted to "talk shit in some other thread where your garbage is relevant irrelevant."

You were trolling and I thought I'd tag you back is all.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:29:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:

Originally Posted By jollyroger:
Look at BravoCo's post.



That really doesn't look long enough for the VFG and light mount, but that's not an issue if I move the light up to the front sight I suppose.



Gotcha.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:44:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
You don't have to resort to the Chicom parts to get a deal on the products your looking for.

MI # 03 Rail Made in U.S.A. Machined from bar stock

www.bravocompanyusa.com/images/Img392.gif

Its only $19.50, same pricing as Hu Jintao charges.




I feel really dumb asking this...but how do you install that without removing the handguards? Wouldn't you need to remove the lower half to put in the washers?
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 9:28:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:
You don't have to resort to the Chicom parts to get a deal on the products your looking for.

MI # 03 Rail Made in U.S.A. Machined from bar stock

www.bravocompanyusa.com/images/Img392.gif

Its only $19.50, same pricing as Hu Jintao charges.




I have ordered this from Bravo Co. This is excellent quality.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:02:28 PM EDT
That AAC rail looks like a nice piece, and it has been recommended twice in this thread so that must mean something. The only thing is that I'd be kind of weary of the 2 screw only mounting.


Originally Posted By GerberSchwintz:
I feel really dumb asking this...but how do you install that without removing the handguards? Wouldn't you need to remove the lower half to put in the washers?h.gifhr


You have to remove the handguard, not the heat shield, which is the tin inside the plastic forend.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 3:12:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 4:28:12 AM EDT by Dog1]

Originally Posted By Glock_10mm:
That AAC rail looks like a nice piece, and it has been recommended twice in this thread so that must mean something. The only thing is that I'd be kind of weary of the 2 screw only mounting.


Originally Posted By GerberSchwintz:
I feel really dumb asking this...but how do you install that without removing the handguards? Wouldn't you need to remove the lower half to put in the washers?



You have to remove the handguard, not the heat shield, which is the tin inside the plastic forend.



One more time..the 2 screw mounting on the AAC rail is solid. I don't put junk on my guns. That rail did not move in 2 years.

The rail comes with 2 machine screws and a back plates. The plates go between the heatshields and the inside of the guards. The plates have 4 nubs that, when tightened down, lock inot the plastic guards, all on the inside.

It prevents them from moving and locks the rail in place.

Link Posted: 1/13/2006 7:14:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 8:33:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BravoCompanyUSA:

Originally Posted By GerberSchwintz:

I feel really dumb asking this...but how do you install that without removing the handguards? Wouldn't you need to remove the lower half to put in the washers?



Yup, you just pop off the bottom handguard to install.



Argh! I'm a moron. It said heat shields not handguards.
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