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Posted: 1/5/2006 7:19:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 7:30:10 PM EDT by AlCapone]
Flattop - T numbered - M4 feed ramp cut - CMT upper * recived this last week

I was just looking at my parts for my current build and noticed a little chip in the finish on my upper.
After a closer look I wondered why ANODIZING would chip so I ran my fingernail across it and more came off..... these uppers seem PAINTED not anodized.... I am a little Po'ed. Luckly its on my barrel threads but I am wondering what's going to happen when i start using this upper? Is it going to start going to crap and chipping all over.... notice a few spots by the rail on top too.

Any one else notice this with their uppers that are CMT?

Should I question this upper and get it replaced with a real ANODIZED one.....?

This is the area I rubed with my finger nail....

I have only latched the caharging handle 3-4 times and heres what this looks like

There are a few of these small chips along the rail
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:24:28 PM EDT
Why not contact Denny before you start publicly trashing him.

I'm sure he will make this right.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:26:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Glack:
Why not contact Denny before you start publicly trashing him.

I'm sure he will make this right.



+1

Seriously dude, let the man try to make it right first.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:27:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 7:30:20 PM EDT by AlCapone]
Im not bashing Denny....

just thought I would pin point where the batch of uppers came from....

Denny is a great guy with great service ordered from him a couple of time no problems....

just thought I would see if this was acceptable, its not like he made them he just sells them....

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:29:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Glack:
Why not contact Denny before you start publicly trashing him.

I'm sure he will make this right.



+1.

My CMT A3 Upper which I purchased from Denny was perfectly finished. No complaints at all, even to this day.

Hell, I made it my avatar!

HS1
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:31:39 PM EDT
Are you building this to simply hang on the wall?

First of all, the areas you are pointing out are going to be the first to show wear REGARDLESS of how good the anodizing is. The first 3 or 4 times you put on and take off a QD optic mount you will see a nick or two on the sharp edges of the flattop rail. Secondly, unless you plan on installing some composite charging handle latch, the recess will show wear. It's metal-on-metal contact and dragging, and it is normal. The barrel threads won't be visible when assembled, so it should be no problem.

I fully understand wanting to something to look nice and new 100% of the time, but if that is more important to you than function, I think you picked the wrong platform to build on.

If it truly is a bad anodizing job, you should contact Denny about it and see what he has to say before posting how PO'd you are. Give him a chance to make it right if you have in fact been wronged.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:32:48 PM EDT
i think he was the one that said he had to resend the uppers he got back to get redone.one might have got through.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:34:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By crazyhorse705:
i think he was the one that said he had to resend the uppers he got back to get redone.one might have got through.



source of info?

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:36:08 PM EDT
If your not happy you should contact Denny. He is one of the most respected dealers on ARFCOM. That being said, I have to ask this question. How much experience do you have with AR's or firearms in general? This upper is not some custom part from a jeweler; it's part of a weapon. Your questioning that minute amount of receiver wear from the charging handle makes me wonder. This is a wear point on any AR that is actually seeing use and not sitting in a safe.

No matter though, Denny will take care of you.


Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:38:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ExParatrooper:
Are you building this to simply hang on the wall? no

First of all, the areas you are pointing out are going to be the first to show wear REGARDLESS of how good the anodizing is. The first 3 or 4 times you put on and take off a QD optic mount you will see a nick or two on the sharp edges of the flattop rail. Secondly, unless you plan on installing some composite charging handle latch, the recess will show wear. It's metal-on-metal contact and dragging, and it is normal. The barrel threads won't be visible when assembled, so it should be no problem. Yea i know i have owned several AR's .... this is definatly not a properly coated upper in my opinion. no anodizing just scrtches off... I am from a Machinist back ground ...

I fully understand wanting to something to look nice and new 100% of the time, but if that is more important to you than function, I think you picked the wrong platform to build on.

If it truly is a bad anodizing job, you should contact Denny about it and see what he has to say before posting how PO'd you are. Give him a chance to make it right if you have in fact been wronged.

Im not mad at denny what so ever
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:40:02 PM EDT
They will make it right...
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:40:57 PM EDT
Looks like a Normal wear pattern to me. You need to speak with Denny First before you say or do anything else.
TS
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:41:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 7:45:09 PM EDT by AlCapone]

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:How much experience do you have with AR's or firearms in general?





Quite a bit thank you!

Have built many AR's and played with many more.....
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:45:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 7:52:10 PM EDT by _DR]
This is why ARFCOM is a mixed blessing for dealers.

Sure they get lots of business, but they also get lots of buyers who have never thrown around an M16 or had to use an AR15 as a tool, and realize that the beauty of it lies in how it functions, not minute cosmetic details. If you want a display piece, order a Les Baer. LMTs and Colts work fine, but they are still made on an assembly line, not hand crafted like custom ARs. As such they will have cosmetic flaws.

There does not appear to be anything wrong with that upper. If it bugs you having bare metal exposed, buy a bottle of birchwood casey alumablack.

Just my $0.02 cents worth.

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:48:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlCapone:

Im not mad at denny what so ever



Ok, then I don't understand why you posted his name in the topic of this thread. Almost seemed like a smear tactic, when you had done nothing to contact Denny/correct it on your own. If that is not the case, I apologize. It just seems like cases of folks posting about stuff and blaming the dealer, then doing nothing to help themselves is on the rise lately.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:49:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlCapone:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:How much experience do you have with AR's or firearms in general?





Quite a bit thank you!

Have built many AR's and played with many more.....



I did not intend it as a flame, but the question had to be asked. You should read _DR's last reply over and over. This is not some hand made custom firearm part.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:53:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlCapone:
Flattop - T numbered - M4 feed ramp cut - CMT upper * recived this last week

I was just looking at my parts for my current build and noticed a little chip in the finish on my upper.
After a closer look I wondered why ANODIZING would chip so I ran my fingernail across it and more came off..... these uppers seem PAINTED not anodized.... I am a little Po'ed. Luckly its on my barrel threads but I am wondering what's going to happen when i start using this upper? Is it going to start going to crap and chipping all over.... notice a few spots by the rail on top too.

Any one else notice this with their uppers that are CMT?

Should I question this upper and get it replaced with a real ANODIZED one.....?

This is the area I rubed with my finger nail....
i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/spentshells/CMT01.jpg
I have only latched the caharging handle 3-4 times and heres what this looks like
i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/spentshells/CMT02.jpg
There are a few of these small chips along the rail
i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/spentshells/CMT03.jpg



Man.............That thing looks trashed................if it was a Rolex..........Chrome it! That way you can polish it, comb your hair by it - Make it look shiny & pretty - Wax On, Wax Off
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:58:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 7:59:11 PM EDT by gunnut003]

Originally Posted By AlCapone:

Originally Posted By crazyhorse705:
i think he was the one that said he had to resend the uppers he got back to get redone.one might have got through.



source of info?




It WASNT his CMT uppers, it was his GTS marked STAG LOWERS that he send back.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:00:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 8:02:03 PM EDT by FlyingFive0]
Denny's lowers had to go back due to color variations he was not happy with.

gunnut003 you were posting as I was typing.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:05:01 PM EDT



I have only latched the caharging handle 3-4 times and heres what this looks like




LOL I really wouldn't worry about that kind of stuff, charging handles do that. I mean come on it's a friggin cheap CMT!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:08:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 8:14:52 PM EDT by JBowles]
OOOHHH MMMMMYYYYYYY GGGGGGOOOOOODDD.



Its just a couple of nics
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:27:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 8:27:51 PM EDT by Dace]
Just so you can rest a little easier, I highly doubt the anodizing is whats chipping, more then likely the finish is rubbing off. Anodizing is a hardening of the metal and not a finish. The finish IS a paint type material and any finish will rub off. Sometimes its done the same time as the anodizing sometimes afterwards. This lower has had most of the finish or black dye rubbed off however the anodizing still remains. Notice how the grey is very dull, thats the anodizing. If it was a really shiny color that would be raw aluminum.

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:04:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Glack:
Why not contact Denny before you start publicly trashing him.

I'm sure he will make this right.



Geeze. Sure Denny's a great guy, but he has a legitimate greivance about the fit and finish of the upper. He's not trashing Denny he just wants to know if anyone else has the probleme or alerting others to the problem. You all criticizing him for posting his concerns ought to lighten the hell up.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:06:31 PM EDT
Knew I shouldn't have bothered posting this...

just thought Id see if some thing was wrong...

by the way anodizing wears not chips...

BTW f**k it...

mind you this is a new upper no rounds through it at all.... I knew this would be "its a weapon" "thats nothing" type trash talk... I have been in the metal industry long enogh to know what I am seeing....

guess ill continue to buy strictly bushmaster parts, never had a problem with them.... this was my first cheap upper reciever, guess I should have expected it... it is a Alcoa forge witch i know is quality but i guess the finish was not properly applied..

out

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:07:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 9:08:34 PM EDT by AlCapone]

Originally Posted By gopeterson:

Originally Posted By Glack:
Why not contact Denny before you start publicly trashing him.

I'm sure he will make this right.



Geeze. Sure Denny's a great guy, but he has a legitimate greivance about the fit and finish of the upper. He's not trashing Denny he just wants to know if anyone else has the probleme or alerting others to the problem. You all criticizing him for posting his concerns ought to lighten the hell up.



thanks fo actually READING my post...

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:09:08 PM EDT
Cars are "tools" too, but no one wants their car key'd or penny'd now do they? Seriously people.

AlCapone, you should talk with your dealer first before posting things like this. Whether you know it or not, you are damaging his reputation and possibly costing him business. People breeze by these threads and don't always read every single thing, they just see Dennys Guns and a picture of a flawed gun or piece of equipment.

Regardless, the spots you pointed out are normal wear spots that are going to have issues over time anyway. Personally I don't see a big deal here, but you should take it up with him immediately.


- rem
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:19:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 11:24:24 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By remedy:
Cars are "tools" too, but no one wants their car key'd or penny'd now do they? Seriously people.





Look more like very minor door dings to me, and I would expect them if I drove it at all. Seriously. You might not even notice them if the images were not so close up.

Personally I would be embarrassed to send back an upper for minute cosmetic issues like that. You will get worse even wear than that with even casual range use.



It's ridiculous to not expect wear in an area like the charging handle retention notch, and I can't believe someone would complain about wear in that spot. The only way that will stay unmarked is if you never work the action, never mind shoot the weapon...

I find this extreme.


This is what they will look like if they are used in the manner they were made for.
Again, if an AR is desired for collection or display purposes, it should be hand picked, not ordered unseen.







Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:27:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
Look more like very minor door dings to me, and I would expect them if I drove it at all. Seriously. You might not even notice them if the images were not so close up.

Personally I would be embarrassed to send back an upper for minute cosmetic issues like that. You will get worse even wear than that with even casual range use. It's ridiculous to not expect wear in an area like the charging handle retention notch, and I can't believe someone would complain about wear in that spot. The only way that will stay unmarked is if you never work the action, never mind shoot the weapon...

I find this extreme.



I agree with you there (I stated it below in my post you quoted), but I get sick of people who always say that AR15's are tools and you should ignore any cosmetic damage. My opinion is that if you shell out money for something in brand-new condition, it should arrive cosmetically and functionally new. I don't care if you are buying a jeep, if it is bought new and when you pick it up it looks like it went through the Rubicon, I bet you'd be pissed.

But in this case most of the areas pointed out were points of wear. I wouldn't care so much there but based on that I would have the bore inspected to make sure it was actually a new gun and not a used one being sold as new, accidentally or not.

- rem
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:33:52 PM EDT
This entire thread is pathetic if the vendor was not contacted first.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:39:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
This entire thread is pathetic if the vendor was not contacted first.



Agreed, I couldn't have said it better myself
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 10:48:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tabersmith:
Looks like a Normal wear pattern to me. You need to speak with Denny First before you say or do anything else.
TS



+1
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 10:52:14 PM EDT
PS, when you get your whole rifle together. Make sure you dont fire it. It's very hard on the rifle.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 10:56:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 11:10:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
This entire thread is pathetic if the vendor was not contacted first.

Fuckin A!! That is what all the fuss is all about . Sure he has a gripe if he expected a 100% perfect AR15 (of which I have never seen one) but why not contact Denny first ? That way you would have know your answer without starting a useless/worthless thread.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 1:14:09 AM EDT
globaltactical.com/_content/contact.php
why didnt you post in the industry section first?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:01:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 2:05:16 AM EDT by ogcujo]
My 100th post
You really should have contacted Denny before posting this.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:17:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 2:26:00 AM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:53:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
This entire thread is pathetic if the vendor was not contacted first.



Quoted for truth.

How did he even manage to find those tiny little nicks? Was that upper inspected inch by inch with a microscope? The pictures had to be zoomed in significantly to be able to notice anything.

If you want a collection piece that will never be fired and never see any kind of wear whatsoever I'm sure its possible to keep sending back pieces until you have exactly what you want (or as some have said, just go buy it in person). Otherwise those areas will start to show wear (especially around the charging handle) after only a few hundred rounds.

I'm also sure that if this "grievance" was presented to Denny that he would have taken care of it (and knowing the way Global Tactical operates, it probably would have been resolved with a new upper in your hands in 3 days or less).
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:57:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zeruel:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
This entire thread is pathetic if the vendor was not contacted first.



Quoted for truth.

How did he even manage to find those tiny little nicks? Was that upper inspected inch by inch with a microscope? The pictures had to be zoomed in significantly to be able to notice anything.

If you want a collection piece that will never be fired and never see any kind of wear whatsoever I'm sure its possible to keep sending back pieces until you have exactly what you want (or as some have said, just go buy it in person). Otherwise those areas will start to show wear (especially around the charging handle) after only a few hundred rounds.

I'm also sure that if this "grievance" was presented to Denny that he would have taken care of it (and knowing the way Global Tactical operates, it probably would have been resolved with a new upper in your hands in 3 days or less).



Agreed on all points, especially the quote in red. This thread got exactly the response it deserved for the reasons already stated.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 3:20:08 AM EDT
I took the thread starters post to be a "Is this Normal" question to the boards

If the replies were........"that's bullshit!", or "that is normal", he would know whether to raise it with Denny or not.


Guess he got his answer.


Denny's rep is well earned here, but do not let that cloud your judgement

If we passed judgement based on which party we "liked" before considering all the facts, it would be unfair.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:08:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:
I took the thread starters post to be a "Is this Normal" question to the boards

If the replies were........"that's bullshit!", or "that is normal", he would know whether to raise it with Denny or not.


Guess he got his answer.


Denny's rep is well earned here, but do not let that cloud your judgement

If we passed judgement based on which party we "liked" before considering all the facts, it would be unfair.



Amen brother.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:16:49 AM EDT
You guys are unreal.

1. Yes he should contact Denny but I do not feel he was bashing Denny at all. He simply stated the source of the upper. Either way, drop it, I'm sure he's gotten the point by now.

2. You guys with your "it's a tool, get over it" garbage are the ones who need to get over it. A new part should look like a new part. Only in the gun crowd do you find people who seem to think its OK to buy items sold as new that look used. When I buy something that is supposed to be new, it damn well better look new. What it is and what its going to be used for is not the point. Even when I buy actual tools off of the Snap-On truck (or even Crapsmen) they are not pre-scratched, pre-worn, stained, rusted or have their paint\chrome finishes flaking off.

3. Regardless of all the other BS in this thread, the main point here is that the finish on that upper IS defective. Anodizing wears, not chips. If he can knock off "chips" with his finger nail then there is a real issue. Either the anodizing was not done correctly or it is not anodizing at all and rather some other type of finish. I have very little respect for anybody that would consider that acceptable.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:54:12 AM EDT
Oh my goodness, anyone can see that his upper is a total loss. Please send it to me so I can give it a decent burial service. It will go to Valhalla riding a brand new lower.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 5:06:07 AM EDT
Look. If it's like that right out of the box he could be looking a premature wear down the road rather than in the course of normal shooting.

Denny will almost certainly make things right. For those that are trying to defend his "chaste" character, you are just prolonging the life of this thread by needlessly slamming the original poster.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 5:21:14 AM EDT
I too took the thread as a "Is this normal post" not as a bashing post.

I am interested in getting an upper and I am trying to figure out who to go with so this is helpful.

The barrel threads look like it was scratched off.
The CH looks like normal wear after a few dozen to hundred chargings, not one or two during testing. If you are waering to aluminum with one or two, how will it look after a few hundred or even a thousand???
If the anodizing layer comes off with your fingernail then it is definately F-ed up and you need to contact your dealer.


Anodizing layer should wear over time, it shouldn't chip or flake off..........That being said, I haven't seen one anodized part chip or flake, as true anodizing is an inegral part of the base metal. It is an electro-chemical process that is formed from the base material.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 5:35:52 AM EDT
First of all you are talking about a VERY small nick on the sharp edge of the picatinney rail. The first time this guy mounts an optic, if he is using a quality mount, its going to look worse than that. Second of all, I have a brand new upper that hasn't been fired yet, only cycled a few times and the notch for the charging handle already looks like that, so the premature wear comment is laughable. As for the threads for the barrel nut? Possible coated with Dura Coat or something else? Who knows but I am sure Denny could have answered that. You aren't going to see it once a barrel is in place. I have never bought anything from Denny but have talked to him a few times so I can't say one way or the other about his CS skills other than what I read on this site. And someone posting pictures about superficial bobos on an AR15 around here is just asking to be dry fucked with a green pinecone
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 5:56:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:54:44 AM EDT
Dude he isn't exactly "bashing" Denny's but he is going about it the wrong way by listing the title of this thread as "CMT Upper from Denny's *FINISH PROBLEMS*"

I mean jesus, he could have just said "Upper with Finish Problems, have questions..." or something. When you list a thread like this without even speaking with the dealer first, you are already inadvertently tarnishing his name.

Like I said before, a lot of AR15.com readers are skimmers and don't read every little thing. They coudl easily see finish problems and Denny's and pass up a purchase there, remembering threads like this one.

- rem


Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:21:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:
And someone posting pictures about superficial bobos on an AR15 around here is just asking to be dry fucked with a green pinecone



Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:27:42 AM EDT
Here, you can fix it with this:



Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:31:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
This entire thread is pathetic if the vendor was not contacted first.

+ infinity!!!
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