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Posted: 1/5/2006 1:20:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 1:21:04 PM EDT by metoo]
A "MUST SEE" video of the newest version M60....1min. 45sec. continous FA !!!!!!!!







WHERE DO I SIGN UP TO BE AN EVALUATOR ??????????




www.wimp.com/machinegun/
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:22:38 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:35:05 PM EDT
"We're gonna need a bigger berm" [/jaws off]
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:46:24 PM EDT
THE PIG ROCKS
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:47:26 PM EDT
That's a lot of money to waste in just a minute and forty-five seconds.

You know I'd be up for it!
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:05:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 2:06:10 PM EDT by gmtmaster]
Dare ya to touch that bbl.......
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:15:23 PM EDT
I TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!

Is that M60 going to replace to M249 SAW or is that the same M60 from Vietnam?
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:19:30 PM EDT
I am turning green with envy.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:31:08 PM EDT
Old news. Old vid.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:36:17 PM EDT
Nothing makes a more comforting sound to a grunt than the M60. Pussy farts are a close second.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:08:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By James_Brown:
I TRIPLE DOG DARE YA!

Is that M60 going to replace to M249 SAW or is that the same M60 from Vietnam?




The M60 was developed and put into service way before the U.S. started fielding the M249. Technically, the M249 and M60 fill different rolls. The standard M60 is being replaced by the FN M240B and -G models. US Ordinance now has the contract to build the newer variants of the M60 (M60E3 and M60E4). The new evolution of the M60 is being used mainly by SOCOM.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:38:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 3:43:20 PM EDT by -Duke-Nukem-]
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 4:43:55 PM EDT
The M-60 is a piece of trash. I've had way too many fail on me, and one even disassemble itself on me. I got a spanking new M240B issued to me, put tens of thousands of rounds through it, and had one stoppage that was due to a n00b AG feeding me gravel. As for accuracy, again, the Pig is sorely lacking compared to a 240. You qualify expert with a 60, a fluke, you shoot 227/227/225 on a DA Form 85-R for your last three record fires, your shooting an M240....
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:32:38 AM EDT
I've shot several US Ord M-60's and have never had nor seen any type of failure. This was always done with really dirty, high mileage, guns and the belts were always laid out on in the dirt, etc.

I especially like the E4 with a suppressor. There is basically no recoil and no muzzle rise You can just fire it offhand, hold the trigger down, and actually hit man size targets at 300 yards... Feels like a .22lr machinegun, just a lot heavier...

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:14:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cyclic240B:
The M-60 is a piece of trash. I've had way too many fail on me, and one even disassemble itself on me. I got a spanking new M240B issued to me, put tens of thousands of rounds through it, and had one stoppage that was due to a n00b AG feeding me gravel. As for accuracy, again, the Pig is sorely lacking compared to a 240. You qualify expert with a 60, a fluke, you shoot 227/227/225 on a DA Form 85-R for your last three record fires, your shooting an M240....



Carefull now, someone will post that the lesser accurate M60 is actually beneficial. I've had the discussion before.


I've seen them work and I've seen them malfunction often. As for high mileage guns dragging belts through the dirt and still firing, if you've seen it/done it, then consider yourself one of the fortunate few. I've talked to some VN area vets that LOVED the 60. My service was MUCH later and my experiece was much different.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:39:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

Originally Posted By wreckdiver:
Old news. Old vid.



+1

www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/?s=2003_side1
Article attached to the footage was written in 2003. As it turned out the E4 was eventually tossed aside by SOCOM in favor of the FN MK48 Mod 0, which is basically a scaled up M249 SAW with rails attached everywhere.

world.guns.ru/machine/mg38-e.htm

www.fnmfg.com/products/m249fam/mk48mod0.gif

www.gun-world.net/article/Belgium/fn/minimi/mk48-08.jpg


That thing is so fugly...
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 12:26:06 AM EDT
They should have had him tearing up an old washer/dryer set, or maybe an Astro Van.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 5:33:42 AM EDT
Sure, lets hump the 240, its longer and heavier than the 60. Yeah, thats smart. Oh, and its design dates back to 1958.

Yes, it is a more reliable weapon, but the E4 fixes the problems (finally) that have plagued the Pig since its inception, and does it in a smaller/lighter package.

And it is a conversion kit, which means units that have 60's can upgrade their existing guns at far less cost per unit than getting new 240's, and that is minus the expense of sending unit armorers off to learn the new system, or the cost of retraining the operators.

Money is a big deal to individual units, we so often run out of funds for training, equipment, etc. etc. well before the end of the fiscal year.

I love the 240, as compared to my old Pig, but it aint the best thing out there, and we should get only the best!

Regardless, belt fed full auto always gives me GUN WOOD!
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:15:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Orion67:
Sure, lets hump the 240, its longer and heavier than the 60. Yeah, thats smart. Oh, and its design dates back to 1958.

Yes, it is a more reliable weapon, but the E4 fixes the problems (finally) that have plagued the Pig since its inception, and does it in a smaller/lighter package.

And it is a conversion kit, which means units that have 60's can upgrade their existing guns at far less cost per unit than getting new 240's, and that is minus the expense of sending unit armorers off to learn the new system, or the cost of retraining the operators.

Money is a big deal to individual units, we so often run out of funds for training, equipment, etc. etc. well before the end of the fiscal year.

I love the 240, as compared to my old Pig, but it aint the best thing out there, and we should get only the best!

Regardless, belt fed full auto always gives me GUN WOOD!



Longer and heavier was a fine trade off for me when my return was a weapon that went bang every time the bolt slammed shut. And I was, at that time, a pissant that was 5-11 and weighed 175# while humping that GPMG all over hells half acre, still no complaints. As for bulk/length. Barely noticeable after I make it too, and I'm zipping through belts with nary a stoppage on a support by fire. I carried my M240B through the jungle in Panama, and the jungles in Thailand. I sure don't recall pissing and moaning about its length in two of the worst enviroments one could encounter carrying a GPMG.

As for a desgin dates, the two are damn near the same age. So given a choice, who in their right mind would want to carry into battle something that took 40+ years to get to work, almost as reliably as another platform that has ran perfectly for the same amount of time? Call me crazy but I sure as hell would want to go with the one with the proven track record, the world over, vs. something that is a patch job of a bad design. More so when our new miracle tool only has a video sample of eating it up some links during range conditions.

As for $$$, I don't seem to have noticed my COs in the 25th I.D. and 2nd I.D. balancing too many checkbooks. Training assets, and ammo funds yes, tools for the main business, negative. Is cost a factor to our Reserve and Guard units, most likely, so I'll have to agree with you there. As for armorers, the transition seemed pretty painless when we got rid of our M-60s, but again, maybe that is differant for non active duty units.

So the one valid area, I'll barely acknowledge, is weight/length. I can clearly see why most, but not all, SOCOM units would want to go with that weapon. They need a decent GPMG that also has to be compact and lightweight because they, 99% of the time, will only have what they carried in on their person. So yes, in that small arena, that new Pig may shine. But what happens when/if somebody at FN decided to make a compact 240? That new pig design would be outclassed again.

Your points seem to come from a executive officer/managment level, not end user. You say cost and armorers, I say track record, outstanding accuracy, and bet your life on it reliability. But that is from the perspective, at that time, of an active duty Machinegunner in a U.S. Army Infantry Platoon. I cannot think of a Machinegunner in my Brigade in the 25th I.D. that didn't damn near sing "ding dong the witch is dead" when we turned in the pigs and uncrated the M240Bs for the first time. On that level the Pigs were very used, very abused, and the percentages evidenced through mean rounds between stoppages showed it.



Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:43:23 AM EDT
No, Im a user. But keep in mind, Reserve units, by their very nature, are more open about, and allow more feedback from members about where the dollars go. Plus, an airbase defense mission is different than offensive combat operations. Having been an active duty Marine 0311, and an Air Force Reservist, I have seen both sides of offense/defense coin. The Marine MP's we had assigned to us in Kuwait had 240's, so I had some time to do a comparison. If a 60 is properly supported by good armorers, it will perform. Old, beat up guns, regardless of make/model will have problems without proper care and maintenance.

I had the good fortune, in 1989, to spend two weeks with a platoon from the Australian Army. They had MAG-58's, and they hated them. Too long, too heavy, no foregrip, etc. Yeah, they are very reliable, but at the time, we had M-60E3's, with the older barrels (E3 barrel was too thin) and we were having no problems with them.

I still believe that we could field a better GPMG than either design, both of which have roots in WWII designs.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 11:00:13 AM EDT
That was great , I bet that guy shooting is still jerking lol, Thanks for Shareing
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 11:49:06 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 5:47:46 PM EDT
ALL I know is that the one on the video KICKS ASS!!!! I would take it as a gift (since I can't afford one) even if the M240B is better!!!
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:26:21 PM EDT
Nice.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:29:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USNTopGun378:
...maybe an Astro Van.



Don't be a hater.

G
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:50:31 PM EDT
The video's old news to me, but it still kicks ass.
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