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Posted: 1/3/2006 12:14:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 1:17:42 PM EDT by Spectre1]
So, I was wondering about where these guys fall in the grand scheme of things in the ARFCOM tier rating system for mfg's.

What about the other producers of Black Rifles? Is there a thread which lists the different producers and gives them a rank on the Official ARFCOM Tier Rating System? Who's Top Dawg? What are the requirements for each tier? I guess Vulcan and Hesse are bottom of the barrel, but where do we go from there? ASA/OLY/DPMS? Where do the parts guns fall? What about the big boys and specialty shops? Just wondering. Any insight/opinions are welcome...



Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:17:32 PM EDT
Wow, there have been a lot of these threads lately. I think they come in packs. Anyway, Stag Arms/CMT is some of the best stuff out there. I have 2 ARs, one is a Bushmaster and the other is a RRA upper on a Stag Arms lower. My Stag Arms lower is much nicer than my Bushmaster lower. Not that the Bushmaster is bad, but the Stag Arms is damn near perfect cosmetically and finish wise. Stag Arms/CMT will not dissapoint.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:28:30 PM EDT
A+++++++++++++++++....can't say enough. I have now got the two perfect AR's (by my design at least) They are Left handed uppers on RRA lowers and fit and finish is perfect. Both tight as drum....lined up perfect and shoot fantastic. Customer for life, their customer service is great.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:47:04 PM EDT
Yeah, I like CMT/Stag, too. I have been using C/S parts for the last few months. I'm expecting shipment of my LTD upper tomorrow. The customer service has been outstanding.

I'm trying to figure out where they rank on the ARFCOM tier rating of producers.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:59:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spectre1:
Yeah, I like CMT/Stag, too. I have been using C/S parts for the last few months. I'm expecting shipment of my LTD upper tomorrow. The customer service has been outstanding.

I'm trying to figure out where they rank on the ARFCOM tier rating of producers.



Near the top, I can tell you that.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 1:28:44 PM EDT
I just got a new 2H upper from Stag, on an RRA lower. Shot it last Friday, ran like a champ. Fit and finish is outstanding
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 1:43:18 PM EDT
tops
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 2:02:07 PM EDT
I just bought my Stag Special Edition upper today and its perfect when it comes to finish. I saw a complete Stag M4 Type in my local gun store yesterday for $875. It was the best AR-15 I have seen so far when it comes to visual appearance. I have never owned one, so I am not sure about problems. I only read great things about Stag on this forum. They also manufacture parts for many of the big name brands. The only reason why I went for the RRA was the 2 stage trigger and houge grip. Also, some people don't seem to like the Stag logo.

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 2:26:02 PM EDT
Love my Stag-15 Model 2 with ambi-select. Have ran 260 rounds through it so far and going again as soon as my red dot scope comes in. Have had no problems out of it and definitely enjoy it.

20
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:25:55 PM EDT
Ok, so this is a cool, "I like Stag" thread, but what I was hoping to find was more of a ranking, like, the following manufactures are Top Tier or Tier1 mfgs, so and so are Tier 2, and so on. Then, where does CMT fit into this order.

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:50:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 3:51:22 PM EDT by smangs]
CMT builds for many Top tier manufacturers. Stag is their house brand name, since they started selling their own products/. CMT is one of the companies that build AR parts for the US Gov't. I was told by Stag that the special edition upper I just bought was a gov't contract overrun, so they must be the ones that go on the M4. I asked the guy if those were built for Colt but he said that he cannot give me that information (trademark thing I guess).

They are top tier, to answer your question.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:15:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By smangs:
CMT builds for many Top tier manufacturers. Stag is their house brand name, since they started selling their own products/. CMT is one of the companies that build AR parts for the US Gov't. I was told by Stag that the special edition upper I just bought was a gov't contract overrun, so they must be the ones that go on the M4. I asked the guy if those were built for Colt but he said that he cannot give me that information (trademark thing I guess).

They are top tier, to answer your question.



Agree, plus for the money the Stag upper is as good as it gets - And for those who don't like the "deer" on the lower, don't buy it, but their upper is a whole different story -
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:37:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CK:
And for those who don't like the "deer" on the lower, don't buy it



You must not fear the deer!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:45:21 PM EDT
If Colt is considered #1, CMT/Stag is also #1 because CMT makes a lot of Colt parts.

My CMT Bolt/carrier/charging handle/M4-cut upper are absolutely great.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:51:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 2:53:30 PM EDT by ybh_613]
I have two ar's.
The first one is a Colt built in 1973 (slabside), model SP1.
The secount one is a Model1 16" upper on a CMT lower. It was put together in 2003.
This was before CMT went to the Stag name. This lower has CMT as the brand and
CMT-15 as the model number. I think both are the best in the world.
Both are rated A #1


edit to add: IMHFO
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 11:43:50 PM EDT
My Stag LTD upper came today. Its sweet. Now if only the lowers would come in...
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:17:30 AM EDT
Virtually everyone polled on Stag/CMT goods gives them an A+ rating

But when it comes to the statement "same as Colt" I have doubts

I'm not saying CMT is better or worse than same Colt part, but I do believe much too much has been made of the commonality


Ive seen photos of the lower receiver manufacturing process at Colt, and if CMT provides the forgings to them, they do so as a lump of aluminum with virtually zero resemblance to a lower. Therefore, IF CMT has involvement, it would appear it is NOT as anything resembling finished parts.

CMT has a solid reputation all by itself, but I do not share the position that "it's the same thing as a Colt"


IMNSHO, YMMV, and Void where prohibited by law.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:12:22 AM EDT
I think that quality wise, Stag/CMT is the same as Colt. The only reason why I find Stag better than Colt is the finish and trigger. Colt's finish is often scratched or rifles have different color tones between the upper and lower. Stag rifles don't come that way. At least I have not yet seen any. But again, it's a matter of opinion and how important features like finish or non-standard triggers are for you.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:48:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 8:54:40 AM EDT by Spectre1]
Stags come with non-standard triggers? As in two-stage or what? Or are you referring to Colts non-standard pin sizes?

As far as other components go, the Stag-4 handguards are not the same as my Colt M4's. The Stag-4's are very simillar to DPMS's and are single shielded. My favorite double heatshield M4's are from Bushmaster and I'm told that they will be available again this year. Everything else I've seen from them seems to be the same or better quality than Colt or Bushy. And I like the 6 vs 4 position M4 buttstock better (old stlye M4 Type II).
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:03:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 12:04:33 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]

Originally Posted By redfisher:
But when it comes to the statement "same as Colt" I have doubts

I'm not saying CMT is better or worse than same Colt part, but I do believe much too much has been made of the commonality




I only mentioned it in relation to their uppers. CMT has "accidentally" let uppers out that had "M4" stamped above the gas tube cloverleaf in the upper. I can think of one, and only one, company that does that as SOP.

I don't know about Colt's lowers.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:10:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 6:29:21 PM EDT by Spectre1]

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By redfisher:
But when it comes to the statement "same as Colt" I have doubts

I'm not saying CMT is better or worse than same Colt part, but I do believe much too much has been made of the commonality




I only mentioned it in relation to their uppers. CMT has "accidentally" let uppers out that had "M4" stamped above the gas tube cloverleaf in the upper. I can think of one, and only one, company that does that as SOP.

I don't know about Colt's lowers.

WIZZO



My LTD Stag is, for all intents and purposes an M4 upper: 14.5" M4 profile 1:7 chrome lined, MP (Mag'd and Proofed!), "F" marked FSB, M4 bbl ext, M4 cut and T marked UR. It does not have the M4 Stamp by the clover leaf. Has permanent Phantom instead of A2 FH. Semi instead of FA BC. But it says Stag Arms, not Colt. Does that make it any less "real"?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:07:30 AM EDT
Stag Arms is the best quality stuff out there hands down.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:45:33 AM EDT
Spectre1 you wanted a ranking, here is mine:

1. RRA
1. CMT/Stag
1. Armalite
1. Bushmaster
1. Doublestar/J&T
2. Oly
2. DPMS

100. Colt: reason...I can't see why anyone would pay the ridiculous amount for their products. IMO
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:51:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By masterblaker:
Spectre1 you wanted a ranking, here is mine:

1. RRA
1. CMT/Stag
1. Armalite
1. Bushmaster
1. Doublestar/J&T
2. Oly
2. DPMS

100. Colt: reason...I can't see why anyone would pay the ridiculous amount for their products. IMO




Cool, thanks!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 12:07:19 PM EDT
wizzo nailed it +1
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