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Posted: 1/3/2006 6:54:12 AM EDT
Like the title says if the SHTF 28 or 30 in a 30 round mag?

Scott
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:57:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 6:59:32 AM EDT by RRA-A2]
30

edit: to remove the quote

2nd post in thread...why did I have to quote the first post? oops!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:58:37 AM EDT
30
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:01:10 AM EDT
30
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:02:32 AM EDT
If it was intended to be a 28 round magazine, they would call it a "28".
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:04:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 7:38:27 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]
Wow, another 28 or 30 round mag loading thread.

The last few have been completely worthless.

How I load:
(1.)USGI w/ green follower - 28 becuase I have personally seen the problem with loading 30.
(2.)USGI w/MagPul follower - 28 becuase thats all that will fit.
(3.)HK - 30 rounds with no problems
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:42:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Big-FED:
If it was intended to be a 28 round magazine, they would call it a "28"



+1
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:44:09 AM EDT
28
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:01:58 AM EDT
all duty 30-rounder mags are at 28 (cause the instructor said so) /shrug.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:04:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 8:05:36 AM EDT by Gloftoe]
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:15:26 AM EDT
Why do you care what everyone else loads to- If all the replies said, "31" would you load that way? Too many people here are willing to bet their life the way internet strangers told them to.

I load my Beta C-Mag to 87.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:16:17 AM EDT
I only load 28 in my 30 round mags... Reason being, a few times with a mag stuffed with 30 rounds I had trouble during a reload... The first round was tight and when using the mag release the bolt wasn't able to strip off the first round with enough force to close the bolt/carrier all the way... I'm not saying that this trouble always happens, but it did and did more than once...

I found that only loading 28 rounds allows the bolt/carrier to fully close every time I use the bolt release to charge the rifle...

Failure to feed from tightly loaded mags has happened to me with different AR's and when using different brand military magazines too...

Ive also seen others encounter the same trouble from stuffing 30 rounds into a magazine...
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:17:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Edit: For the "28 round" proponents: Should I load my Glock 19 mags with 13 rounds? Or my FAL mags with 18 rounds?




I load my G17 mags with 18 (every once and a while for shits and grins), because even though they say 17, that's how many fits.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:24:39 AM EDT
I load 28, it's easier to ram it in the well if the bolt is forward. When I put in a full 30 rnds I have to make double sure that the mag catches.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:32:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kisara:
Why do you care what everyone else loads to- If all the replies said, "31" would you load that way? Too many people here are willing to bet their life the way internet strangers told them to.

I load my Beta C-Mag to 87.



+1
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:48:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:52:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HUNTER223:
28, just to be sure.

HUNTER.



I guess it depends WHAT you want to be sure of.

I load mine 30, just to be sure.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:54:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By HUNTER223:
28, just to be sure.

HUNTER.



I guess it depends WHAT you want to be sure of.

I load mine 30, just to be sure.



DK, have you ever had difficulty getting a mag to seat with the bolt closed?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:02:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 9:04:07 AM EDT by QUIB]
I have some brand-new USGI mags I purchased recently. I’ll load one with 30 rounds, release the bolt and fire the first round, then “click” nothing. I then have a hard time pulling the bolt to the rear to clear the round in the chamber. Once I do get the round out it’s mangled! After that the mag empties just fine. I think I’ll load up 28rds in these mags till they get broke in a bit. Never had mag related problems before with used mags.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:16:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 9:17:27 AM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

DK, have you ever had difficulty getting a mag to seat with the bolt closed?




Depends on what you mean by "difficulty" (sorry, not trying to be nitpicky or obstuse)

IIRC, It might feel slightly easier to seat a magazine with 28 rounds than with 30, but I wouldn't personally describe the 30-rounds as difficult per se.


Never mind, I'm too much of a curious nerd to leave this alone. Rather than rely on memory, I decided to do a quick and dirty blind "test"

I just went upstairs and pulled three different ARs (a Bushmaster, a CMMG and an Armalite). I then took two identical USGI mags (Okay brand) and removed 2 rounds from one of them, and shuffled them so I couldn't tell which was the 30 and which was the 28. Then, I proceeded to insert and remove the mags ten times from each rifle - with bolt closed.

I could not tell which mag was which. No difference whatsoever.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:22:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

DK, have you ever had difficulty getting a mag to seat with the bolt closed?




Depends on what you mean by "difficulty" (sorry, not trying to be nitpicky or obstuse)

IIRC, It might feel slightly easier to seat a magazine with 28 rounds than with 30, but I wouldn't personally describe the 30-rounds as difficult per se.


Never mind, I'm too much of a curious nerd to leave this alone. Rather than rely on memory, I decided to do a quick and dirty blind "test"

I just went upstairs and pulled three different ARs (a Bushmaster, a CMMG and an Armalite). I then took two identical USGI mags (Okay brand) and removed 2 rounds from one of them, and shuffled them so I couldn't tell which was the 30 and which was the 28. Then, I proceeded to insert and remove the mags ten times from each rifle - with bolt closed.

I could not tell which mag was which. No difference whatsoever.



That's a pretty good test. I wonder if how new the mag is plays a role (as in, more difficulty with a brand new mag).
I have noticed slightly more attention/effort required with 30 in a mag but to be fair that was when I had a brand new AR and brand new mags.

As a side note, I cannot get my Beta-C mag to seat unless the bolt is open.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:32:43 AM EDT
I cram as many as I can get in em!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:33:26 AM EDT
Most of the time on my new D&H magazines the top round cannot get stripped all the way out when releasing the bolt on a fully loaded mag. 28, however, works fine.


I am considering getting a wolf extra power buffer spring, but I have read of short-stroking problems with it. We shall see I guess.

Maybe I will get the Wolf spring and keep the bolt locked back for a few weeks so the spring can take a set, making it stronger than the original but a little weaker than a fresh Wolf spring.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:41:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Wow, another 28 or 30 round mag loading thread.

The last few have been completely worthless.

How I load:
(1.)USGI w/ green follower - 28 becuase I have personally seen the problem with loading 30.
(2.)USGI w/MagPul follower - 28 becuase thats all that will fit.
(3.)HK - 30 rounds with no problems



I can fit 30 with a magpul...
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:45:43 AM EDT
This reminds me of a common problem.

Awhile back my buddy bought a new 12 round HK mag, but when he went to load it, he could barely get 12 rounds into it. When he went to rack the slide, it would not reliably feed. He loaded up 10 and it worked fine.

He was going to just accept it as a 10 round mag, but finally decided to keep at getting 12 in. Now, he can comfortably and reliably load 12 rounds with no problems. Had he kept up with the 10 round idea, he would probably only be able to reliably load 10 rounds to this day.


My point being, if you never break a mag in, it will never work as it's meant to.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:59:05 AM EDT
30
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:18:28 AM EDT
If your rifle won't strip rounds from a fully loaded mag, then there is something wrong with the rifle.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:41:24 AM EDT
30 no malfunctions ever.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:45:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

DK, have you ever had difficulty getting a mag to seat with the bolt closed?




Depends on what you mean by "difficulty" (sorry, not trying to be nitpicky or obstuse)

IIRC, It might feel slightly easier to seat a magazine with 28 rounds than with 30, but I wouldn't personally describe the 30-rounds as difficult per se.


Never mind, I'm too much of a curious nerd to leave this alone. Rather than rely on memory, I decided to do a quick and dirty blind "test"

I just went upstairs and pulled three different ARs (a Bushmaster, a CMMG and an Armalite). I then took two identical USGI mags (Okay brand) and removed 2 rounds from one of them, and shuffled them so I couldn't tell which was the 30 and which was the 28. Then, I proceeded to insert and remove the mags ten times from each rifle - with bolt closed.

I could not tell which mag was which. No difference whatsoever.



That's a pretty good test. I wonder if how new the mag is plays a role (as in, more difficulty with a brand new mag).
I have noticed slightly more attention/effort required with 30 in a mag but to be fair that was when I had a brand new AR and brand new mags.



Perhaps new mags can make a slight difference - maybe a little bit of wear in the square hole that catches the mag catch thingy (or whatever that's called ) can be a deciding factor.

My Okay mags are pretty old, but I did replace the springs and followers with brand new ones about a year ago.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:55:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Wow, another 28 or 30 round mag loading thread. he
How I load:
(1.)USGI w/ green follower - 28 becuase I have personally seen the problem with loading 30.
(2.)USGI w/MagPul follower - 28 becuase thats all that will fit.
(3.)HK - 30 rounds with no problems



I've got mine w/the Magpull followers and I can fit 30 just fine.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:04:36 AM EDT
I put 30 in a 30 because that's what it is supposed to take.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:14:11 AM EDT
29. Seriously, I don't understand why people think that since the top round is too tight, they have to remove TWO rounds to make it work better. I've never had a problem with 30, and the only reason my mags are loaded to 29 right now is because they're brand freakin' new and have Magpul Ranger Plates and followers installed. They've never been used, so they're pretty tight, but I've been working one a bit to see if they'll break in and now it'll take 30 a lot easier than it used to. Break your mags in and they'll work like they're supposed to. You don't buy your boots two sizes too big because the size that fits is too stiff right off the shelf. Why would you do the same with your mags?

Also, didn't this whole thing come around back in Vietnam when they had those crap ass followers and such, and it's just one of those myths that's been perpetuated through generations of upgrades? I can see if you're having problems seating a magazine on a closed bolt, but why would you be doing that anyway? If you're reloading, you've got a bolt-hold-open (at least every AR I've ever seen has a bolt-hold-open...) and the bolt is back anyway. The only time you're loading on a closed bolt is if your gun is broken, or you're just starting out. Since this is a SHTF situation thread, I would presume that you're going to have a mag loaded and inserted and the gun prepared to be used. Not like at the range where you just toss in a mag when you wanna shoot, then unsafe and charge the weapon.

So to recap, why 28 instead of 29? Why don't you guys break in your mags? Why is loading on a closed bolt an issue?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:19:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 11:25:29 AM EDT by IAMLEGEND]

Originally Posted By theWalrus:
29. Seriously, I don't understand why people think that since the top round is too tight, they have to remove TWO rounds to make it work better. I've never had a problem with 30, and the only reason my mags are loaded to 29 right now is because they're brand freakin' new and have Magpul Ranger Plates and followers installed. They've never been used, so they're pretty tight, but I've been working one a bit to see if they'll break in and now it'll take 30 a lot easier than it used to. Break your mags in and they'll work like they're supposed to. You don't buy your boots two sizes too big because the size that fits is too stiff right off the shelf. Why would you do the same with your mags?

Also, didn't this whole thing come around back in Vietnam when they had those crap ass followers and such, and it's just one of those myths that's been perpetuated through generations of upgrades? I can see if you're having problems seating a magazine on a closed bolt, but why would you be doing that anyway? If you're reloading, you've got a bolt-hold-open (at least every AR I've ever seen has a bolt-hold-open...) and the bolt is back anyway. The only time you're loading on a closed bolt is if your gun is broken, or you're just starting out. Since this is a SHTF situation thread, I would presume that you're going to have a mag loaded and inserted and the gun prepared to be used. Not like at the range where you just toss in a mag when you wanna shoot, then unsafe and charge the weapon.

So to recap, why 28 instead of 29? Why don't you guys break in your mags? Why is loading on a closed bolt an issue?



It's 28 instead of 29 so if you rack your weapon in the dark you can remove the mag and feel the top round. If a round loaded it will have shifted sides.
If you use 30 or 28 it will leave the next round on the same side so you will know. If 29 it can become confusing.

ETA: Also, you will load on a closed bolt any time you do a tactical reload (i.e. before you run your mag dry). Like if you have fired off 23 rounds you would put a fresh mag in before going in a building or something. You extract the partially used mag and put a full one in on a closed bolt.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:28:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

ETA: Also, you will load on a closed bolt any time you do a tactical reload (i.e. before you run your mag dry). Like if you have fired off 23 rounds you would put a fresh mag in before going in a building or something. You extract the partially used mag and put a full one in on a closed bolt.



DAMMIT. Okay, you got me there. Good game. But the rest of my post I stick by. The reload thing is kinda ridiculous to me. I don't understand why you'd drop a mag and feel the top round instead of just pulling back your charging handle a bit and seeing if there's a round in there. And if it's dark, you can stick your finger in there and feel just like when you take out a magazine, I suppose.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:34:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By theWalrus:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

ETA: Also, you will load on a closed bolt any time you do a tactical reload (i.e. before you run your mag dry). Like if you have fired off 23 rounds you would put a fresh mag in before going in a building or something. You extract the partially used mag and put a full one in on a closed bolt.



DAMMIT. Okay, you got me there. Good game. But the rest of my post I stick by. The reload thing is kinda ridiculous to me. I don't understand why you'd drop a mag and feel the top round instead of just pulling back your charging handle a bit and seeing if there's a round in there. And if it's dark, you can stick your finger in there and feel just like when you take out a magazine, I suppose.



It's just a way to check without taking the firing hand off the grip and messing with the charging handle to open the bolt part way and feel around (which can be somewhat awkward when trying to remain relatively ready in the event of contact).
Pulling the mag out and feeling the top can be done all with the weak hand while holding the weapon with the strong hand (by its grip where the hand belongs).

It's just a technique and it might not be for everyone.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 12:51:44 PM EDT
30s W/MAGPUL FOLLOWERS, 30 RDS, NO PROBLEMS!!! heavy.gif
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 1:18:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LakeCop10:
30s W/MAGPUL FOLLOWERS, 30 RDS, NO PROBLEMS!!!



+1
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 1:21:38 PM EDT
30s W/MAGPUL FOLLOWERS, 30 RDS, NO PROBLEMS!!!


Same here from mags from 44mag.com

Never had a problem stuffing a 30 into a closed bolt. I also like the fact that that my ammo boxes are empty with no partials, it all comes out even.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 1:23:35 PM EDT
30.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:11:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 11:32:28 PM EDT by CAAAwarfighter]
28 for me. Easier to reload with the Bolt forward. Pat Rogers just wrote a Mag article in SWAT, has anybody else read it?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:17:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 2:18:49 PM EDT by theshootersden]

Originally Posted By CAAAwarfighter:
28 for me. Easier to reload with the Bolt forward. Pat Rodgers just wrote a Mag article in SWAT, has anybody else read it?



The instructors I know recommend 28 too...
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:22:26 PM EDT
29 because I like to be difficult
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:22:56 PM EDT
I don't have ANY problems loading full 30rd mags on a closed bolt. I don't much care what instructors or magazines say.

I've read that back in 'Nam they would load some 20's up with 17 or 18 so not everyone runs out of ammo and reloads at the same time, which actually makes some sense.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:25:40 PM EDT
well they're called 30rd mags right?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:42:07 PM EDT
28, mine sit loaded for long periods of time. Cannot take any chances.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 2:44:30 PM EDT
28
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 3:01:09 PM EDT
I load my Beta C-Mag 12 rounds over the stages course of fire.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 3:02:42 PM EDT
If I could cram 31 in there I would.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 3:07:45 PM EDT
28. Last three rounds tracer.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 3:14:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CAAAwarfighter:
28 for me. Easier to reload with the Bolt forward. Pat Rodgers just wrote a Mag article in SWAT, has anybody else read it?



I did

great article.

Not only did Pat_Rogers recommend 28 rounds in mags, he offers sage advice on mag selection, and maintenance.

28 for me
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 3:29:00 PM EDT
nope, never read it..


just remember what I learned in SOI..

Including the last 3 being tracers should you happen to be hunting zombies.
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