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Posted: 1/2/2006 12:26:16 AM EDT
Not being picky, I just want to know if this is a sign of something being oversprung or what...

On my new build with 250 rds of Q3131 through it, the very front edge of my brass deflector has all the black finish "chipped" off it. It actually does look like tiny chips. I noticed most pics I've seen of used AR's, the brass deflector has a brass colored mark all the way across it, while mine isn't being contacted anywhere but on that very front edge out of the port. All my fired brass has a slight indentation right in the middle of the case where it's hitting my deflector. It's a 16" middy Mega upper / lower receiver with CMT BCG and ISMI spring / H buffer. I have a D-Fender extractor D-ring in there too. Thanks!!!
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:28:20 AM EDT
Normal. The deflector is supposed to deflect. Something has to hit the deflector for the deflector to deflect it.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:29:56 AM EDT
it means you use your rifle, they should be marks of pride
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:32:27 AM EDT
What I do about brass marks is this.................



I take old fired cases and scuff and hit the brass deflector as soon as I get it, that makes it so I dont have to worry about it like you do.



Thats why its called a "BRASS DEFLECTOR", brainiac.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:02:56 AM EDT
Take the D ring off of the extractor and see what it does it is not needed on a middy.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:10:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JackalAR:
Not being picky,



Yes, you are
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:40:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:57:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 4:57:51 AM EDT by pun]
Its a tool not a picasso..just shoot it and enjoy it100% function is whats most important along with maintenece and keeping the rifle in good repair.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:37:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rogue007:
What I do about brass marks is this.................



I take old fired cases and scuff and hit the brass deflector as soon as I get it, that makes it so I dont have to worry about it like you do.



Thats why its called a "BRASS DEFLECTOR", brainiac.



THAT was hardly civil. He didn't know, so he asked... Sheesh!
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:38:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By marinesg1012:
it means you use your rifle, they should be marks of pride



+1

Shoot, mark that BD up and ENJOY the good times! Look at those marks and think "Yeah baby. I put those there"!
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:43:13 AM EDT
Put a piece of loop velcro on the deflector, it will be easier on the brass too.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:45:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bblake00:
Normal. The deflector is supposed to deflect. Something has to hit the deflector for the deflector to deflect it.



Good words here.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:45:31 AM EDT
If the hot brass does not hit you in the eye you are good.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:49:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 5:55:08 AM EDT by trgams]
I asked this question a year or so back, got a real good response. The brass kiss marks are easy to remove.. First take some CLP and drip a few drops on your deflector..second, take your brass brush, and slowly start to work on the kiss marks in round circles...it will first look like you are doing more harm than good, but try to get it to look like a brass soup..then wipe it off. If it's not all gone try it again until it is. That has worked for me everytime....Or you can leave them on the gun for decoration in your next "I Kill Zombies Parade". I prefer the weapon clean. Good-Luck.

PS. It does seem normal to me that your cases are hitting in a place other than the center of the deflector they are apt to hit anywhere near the deflector, or directly on the center of it. it depends on the bolt and the ammo...you could try different ammo, or a d-ring as previously mentioned...it sucks that it has chipped the finish off your rifle....maybe you could use some alumiblack to cover the dings up.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:55:05 AM EDT
I don't think he is complaining that his BD is messed up, I think he is asking if it's normal where his brass is hitting.

like stated above, remove the D ring and see what happens.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:59:57 AM EDT
We lefties really appreciate those brass marks on the deflector. Sure beats having them on our faces.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:06:43 AM EDT
Each time I look at this post I see something that I neglected to read on the first time...I apologize for that...try taking the d-ring out and see what happens...also, is the ejector rod moving? It's not stuck in the bolt in the rear position is it? Just a couple of things to check. Good-Luck, and I'll try to read next time before posting a response. !
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:13:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:42:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
it's compressed when the bolt locks with a round in the chamber and extends as the bolt opens, the extractor holds the case head against it



That's a big 10-4...maybe stuck rearward from some trash, or a broken spring causing it not to eject the shell casings very good.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:46:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
put a strip of electrical tape over the BD



That would be my recommendation if you were really concerned. To the original poster, I assume that your deflector looks like the one below.

My rig is a RRA TASC with no further modifications. Fires all ammo flawlessly and drops the casings in a nice little pile.

The deflector below is obviously being hit at the leading edge, but the deflector itself is there to take the hit from fired casings so no worries.

(Disregard the dust, she spent some time behind a curtain recently)


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/forgiver/100_1693.jpg
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:46:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:07:04 AM EDT
I just noticed that the edge of my deflector seems to have been "buffed" shiny by brass; it looks like bare aluminum, and not at all anodized now. I'm going to use that high tech touch up tool called "Magic Marker" to tone it down, but I am curious if this indicates something bad about my upper's finish.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:12:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 7:33:02 AM EDT by Tweak]
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:25:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 7:26:28 AM EDT by Yojimbo]

Originally Posted By Tweak:
yeah chipping like shown in the pic is not a good sign



Tweak,

What's does that wear pattern tell you?

Is that particular carbine in that picture over or under gassed? Is the extractor tension too low or too high?

If you don't mind could you tell us how verify if the timing is correct? What's the ideal deflector wear pattern and approximately what direction (4 o'clock?) should the shells be ejected towards?

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:26:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
yeah chipping like shown in the pic is not a good sign



Well, that is one of the reasons that I thought I should post a pic... First to give a possible example photo, and also to let someone like yourself take a look. he


Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:29:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:36:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 7:40:18 AM EDT by forgiver]
My rifle does eject straight out at a 90 degree angle (well, really behind 3'oclock in relation to the shooter), so I will assume that it is good.

Let's say for example that the rifle was throwing casings out and towards the front. Tweak, what would you recommend in that situation?

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:51:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:59:03 AM EDT
I am shooting a Colt HBAR, and a Bushmaster M4gery, and both are showing brass on the tip of the deflector.

Neither have any mods, and are both factory. I am not running the D ring like many have mentioned.

Any way I could tweek this so the brass leaves at the 3 o'clock position?

BTW, the brass hitting does not bother me one bit, and the functioning on both rifles is flawless with Wolf or anything else.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:59:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 9:00:01 AM EDT by JackalAR]
Guys, thank you for all the replies...damn. Second, some of you need to read or find more time to verbally abuse your significant other before posting.

Mine looks exactly like the one pictured on page 1. I have NO concern with the marks at all...I know it's a brass deflector which is why I was calling it as such. This isn't my first gun folks...just my first AR. Also, I already have some AlumaBlack, but I WON'T be wasting my time recoloring this area after every outing. ...it's a non-issue.

I was simply wanting to "compare notes" if you will because none of my buddies have AR's. With the H buffer and ISMI spring, even with a lightly lubed bolt carrier that hasn't even broke in yet, my bolt still locks open using WWB 45gr. varment JHP's, so no short-stroking. If people can get away with a high-dollar super heavy hydrolic buffer or similar, the extra .8 oz can't hurt. Colt is using H2's in the M4 now. As far as the D-Fender goes, I found most people run a Wolf extractor spring, so I figured a stock spring with D-Fender was perfectly cool...especially since it was designed by two of the original AR design guys. A little extra insurance if you will....same goes for my ISMI recoil spring.

Tweak, my brass clears the range booth and falls in front of the line...I'd say it ejects at 1:30 - 2 o'clock. What do you think?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:02:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 9:12:45 AM EDT by Yojimbo]

Originally Posted By Tweak:
forward ejection is usually a sign of overfunction



Basically you'll want to slow down the ROF and test function with a heavier M16 BC, heavier buffers, and a new or heavier buffer spring. After trying them each and in combination you should be able to tune the timing so that the cases get ejected properly.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:08:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 12:13:47 PM EDT by Yojimbo]
JackalAR,

I'd try the Wollf XP extractor spring by itself first, I'd say for 95% of the cases it's all that's needed. It's also alot cheaper than the Defender and the original weak extractor spring is generally a POS.

My carbines work great with only the Wolff XP Extractor spring. Personally I like not having to add extra parts like the o-ring or Defender if possible.

As far as your ejection goes you may want to have someone watch it carefully while you shoot so you can make sure that it's really ejecting to 1:30 or 2 o'clock and not just bouncing forward off the case deflector.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:15:15 PM EDT
They ARE hitting the deflector and bouncing off at about 1:30 - 2.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:00:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JackalAR:
They ARE hitting the deflector and bouncing off at about 1:30 - 2.



Sounds like it's good to go.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:52:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 4:05:06 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]
Wolf Kills (this is about 4000-4500rds and counting)


And I'll be darned if this one doen't have some evidence of shoting either (mix of WWB and Wolf)


WIZZO

EDIT: On the functioning issue, the top one (carbine gas system, 16") was ejecting at about 1:30. I noticed that my 20" rifles were ejecting at about 4 o'clock. I put a RRA 9mm buffer in it and it slowed the cycling to the point that it was ejecting at 3 o'clock. I'm satisfied with that. My middy (second pic) was actually ejecting a little forward as well so I dropped a 9mm buffer in it for kicks to see how it worked. It now ejects at about 3:30 and I think that's just dandy too.

I have been using this mantra as to my reasoning for switching to 9mm buffers and am glad to see I'm not retarded for thinking so.

Originally Posted By Tweak:
forward ejection is a problem, if it goes out to the side and makes it out every time it's fine

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:01:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 7:02:38 PM EDT by dmcblaster]
Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:
Wolf Kills (this is about 4000-4500rds and counting)
i31.photobucket.com/albums/c352/WIZZO499/DCP_1081a.jpg


That aint nuttin... check this out... this is only 40rds of wolf and that aint no bull shit either. I know its not from brass casings because I was looking at the deflector the other day and I would of noticed something like that. Seen this post and i figured I would check mine out and sure enough wolf fucked me..

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:09:51 PM EDT
It's a sign of manhood.

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:26:31 PM EDT
if your deflector DOESN'T have any marks on it, then there is something very wrong...
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:49:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:12:43 PM EDT
Mine looks like those too. It's normal.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 2:03:18 AM EDT
both my rifles have the edge of the BD "chipped". Meh, functions fine.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:48:35 AM EDT
Thanks guys, I'll work on making it worse.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:45:44 AM EDT
Here’s a pic of the ejection port on my M4gery, yea she could probably use some tuning, but she has always run like a champ as is. I don’t want to start dickin’ with her now.

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:41:29 AM EDT
My deflector is just like the ones pictured-shiny at the front. I looked VERY closely and it's NOT the anodizing chipping off, it's wear on the upper. With a 10X magnifier you can see a tiny bit of pitting around the shiny area. This is definitely wear. No Wolf, but about 100 rounds of Barnaul. The rest has been brass cased ammunition.

I'm still going with the Magic Marker. I guess this means that I'm actually using the rifle, eh?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:47:50 AM EDT
My wear appears as chipping in the ano...but the cases are hitting it half way down so it must just be peening the leading edge...I'm not worried about it since it appears to be normal.
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