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Posted: 1/1/2006 7:16:41 PM EDT
I'm weighing out the two options, as I know both work .... and work well. But given my limited breadth of knowledge, I'm leaning towards a rifle length system. What do you think?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:19:16 PM EDT
mid length, just looks cool.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:43:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:46:26 PM EDT
So that guys shooting WOLF out of that rifle, eh? Isn't that like putting 87 octane in your 'vette?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:21:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 12:59:21 PM EDT by POF-USA]
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:27:09 AM EDT
tag



Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:15:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By POF-USA:
www.pof-usa.com/DSC0224031.JPG

HOPEFULLY THIS PICTURE MAY HELP TO DECIDE WHAT LENGTH UPPER TO USE:

POF-USA TEAM SHOOTER: GARY MOWERY, SHOOTING & COMPETING WITH OUR 18" GAS PISTON SPR WEAPON SYSTEM. P-415-18-P12SX-CF (SEMI-AUTO, 18" GAS PISTON UPPER/RIFLE, P-12SX(SLIM EXTENDED VERSION) FULL LENGTH RAIL, CONTINUOUS FLUTED, HEAVY PROFILED, ROCK CREEK 4150 VANADIUM, 1:8 TWIST "5R" POLYGONAL BARREL.
OUR 18" SPR BARREL WEIGHS: 1.93 LBS.
COMES STANDARD, WITH M4 BARREL EXTENSION AND CHROME LINED.

THIS WEAPON SYSTEM AND MANY MORE NEW ITEMS WILL BE DISPLAYED AT SHOT SHOW.
(SHOT SHOW, BOOTH# 22067).
BEST REGARDS,

FRANK
PATRIOT ORDNANCE FACTORY (POF-USA)
WWW.POF-USA.COM



Good-Nice weapon
Bad-Wolf
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:19:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Creeper:
mid length, just looks cool.

I would agree that a mid-length handguard/gas system is more aesthetically pleasing on a 14.5" or 16" bbl but for an 18" bbl, I would go with a rifle length handguard/gas system.

A rifle length gas system has the softest recoil of all of the different gas system lengths which means it also causes the least amount of wear and tear on the internals of the rifle. The only downside is a rifle length handguard, specifically a rail system, will weight a bit more (around 3 oz.) than a mid-length rail system but that only really matters if you're trying to keep the weight down as much as possible. That also assumes that you're going to use a rail system.

Something just occurred to me too. Won't it will be more difficult/expensive to find an 18" (or 20") bbl with a mid-length gas system than say a 16" bbl? Conversely, 18" or 20" bbls with a rifle length gas system are every day fare.

Looks-wise, I always find that the less I see of the bbl, the better it looks to me.

Hokie, do you have any specific uses in mind for this AR?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:27:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Matt_B:

Originally Posted By Creeper:
mid length, just looks cool.

I would agree that a mid-length handguard/gas system is more aesthetically pleasing on a 14.5" or 16" bbl but for an 18" bbl, I would go with a rifle length handguard/gas system.

A rifle length gas system has the softest recoil of all of the different gas system lengths which means it also causes the least amount of wear and tear on the internals of the rifle. The only downside is a rifle length handguard, specifically a rail system, will weight a bit more (around 3 oz.) than a mid-length rail system but that only really matters if you're trying to keep the weight down as much as possible. That also assumes that you're going to use a rail system.

Something just occurred to me too. Won't it will be more difficult/expensive to find an 18" (or 20") bbl with a mid-length gas system than say a 16" bbl? Conversely, 18" or 20" bbls with a rifle length gas system are every day fare.

Looks-wise, I always find that the less I see of the bbl, the better it looks to me.

Hokie, do you have any specific uses in mind for this AR?



I guess what's driving my inquiry is that I live in Maine and it's usually pretty cold up here during the winter....and I want a gas system that will best suit an 18" barrel. My AR build is an SPR type with a TA31A optic atop the upper reciever. My intent is to have a gun that will compliment my 14.5" M4gery
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:33:17 AM EDT
Mid length is the way to go for 18" uppers.




Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:41:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:50:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nick710:
Mid length is the way to go for 18" uppers.

Why is an 18" mid length the way to go?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:53:27 AM EDT
Personally, I think 18" midlengths looks too much like 16" carbines: like ass. Way too much barrel sticking out. Obviously, I'd get the rifle length gas tube/handguards. Actually, I agree with bigbore--get a 16" midlength.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:08:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
I guess what's driving my inquiry is that I live in Maine and it's usually pretty cold up here during the winter....and I want a gas system that will best suit an 18" barrel. My AR build is an SPR type with a TA31A optic atop the upper reciever. My intent is to have a gun that will compliment my 14.5" M4gery

Then I take it you're concerned about gas system related reliability in cold weather, correct? I would guess that either would work with an 18" bbl if done right.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:13:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By topgunpilot20:
Personally, I think 18" midlengths looks too much like 16" carbines: like ass. Way too much barrel sticking out. Obviously, I'd get the rifle length gas tube/handguards. Actually, I agree with bigbore--get a 16" midlength.



+1. either get the midlength 16", or if you gotta go 18" get rifle length, but i would take a 20" over an 18" anyday. it's all about preference IMO.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:27:08 AM EDT
I'd go with the rifle length for smoother cycling, not to mention I think mid length's over 16" look disproportionate.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:54:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:05:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 1:07:14 PM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
Mid-Length gas systems are the best all around (especially if your operating in a cold climate).


C4



MattB, you are correct in your assumption. I'm looking for the best gas system for an 18" barrel assuming it'll be utilized in a variety of temperatures (Maine = 0 degrees winter to 90 in the summer).

Understanding the 18" barrel is a 'compromise'....I also like the added velocity and it'll make a nice addition to my collection. I'm not shooting any naked zombies up here....the firing range aside....everything's either got a thick fleece coat or a lot of brown fur. I fully plan on getting a 16" midlength....for my next build.

I guess my bottom line question for debate is....which gas system is best suited for an 18" AR in cold weather? Rifle length or Mid length? What would the mid length offer over the rifle length? Is it negligible? I may very well be making a mountain out of a mole hill. Perhaps if I'm that worried about velocity out of a 1:7 barrel, maybe I should just get a 20" barrel....but my logic switches gears there...and says if I'm gonna shoot a 20" barrel, it may as well pump 308's.

lol...oh the mind of an arfcommer!
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:08:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:10:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 1:31:31 PM EDT by Hokie]
cool, thanks Grant, I always value your advice. Now for discussion purposes, what about an intermediate gas system, between the midlength AND rifle length?

Just making overly simplistic comparisons, would a compromised gas system work with a compromised barrel length to produce uncompromised results?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:38:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 1:38:58 PM EDT by theWalrus]
In case some of you forgot, you can put rifle length handguards on a mid length gas system with a low profile gas block. All the posts about looking silly are really not worth reading, because it's possible to make it look however you want with the right combo of parts.

That said, I'd get a mid length with a rifle length handguard. Mostly because of the reliability of the mid length system.

Also, less importantly of course, I agree that the less barrel I see, the hotter the rifle looks.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:52:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
cool, thanks Grant, I always value your advice. Now for discussion purposes, what about an intermediate gas system, between the midlength AND rifle length?

Just making overly simplistic comparisons, would a compromised gas system work with a compromised barrel length to produce uncompromised results?



The intermediate system is between the rifle and midlength... it was developed due to the fact that the SPR port is opened a little to make up for the 2" of lost dwell time and the middy has excessive dwell at 8.5" of barrel after the port... results are very good and the system runs like a top.

I would say that for 18" it is perfect, that is specifically what it was designed for...

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:35:08 PM EDT
If you are looking for the most relaible gas system then you should try any of the piston systems, kind of like the one POF has just released. Sweet! Will probably be my next SPR build! Competeing with wolf ammo is crazy but also possible with a piston!
You can use any length piston. It doesnt matter. They alll work!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:52:48 PM EDT
I dont think temperature will have a major effect on either. your talking about 1000 degree plus gasses. Why would a colder ambient temperature effect anything on a gun that is not overlubed (unless your talking about temperatures below -30F).
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:02:39 PM EDT
My GAP SPR used an 18" barrel with the rifle length gas system. It was a sweet shooter and was smooth and utterly reliable. If I were doing it over, I'd head in the same direction.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:32:11 PM EDT
I've become a fan of the mid length system. Even if it will look funny on a 18" upper you could put one of the rails that has the extensions past the FSB to make it look right. Also that would put your bipod out further.

You are going to rail it and stick a bipod on there....right?
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:17:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jonathan1994:
I dont think temperature will have a major effect on either. your talking about 1000 degree plus gasses. Why would a colder ambient temperature effect anything on a gun that is not overlubed (unless your talking about temperatures below -30F).



good question, I don't know...sadly.

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:17:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jollyroger:

You are going to rail it and stick a bipod on there....right?



Absolutely! Anything less would be so un-American!
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:40:53 AM EDT
I guess the question I have is why 18"?

Not a flame, just asking. Is there an advantage to the 18" over a 20"? I understand its two inches shorter, and that may give you some portability, but is there any other real advantage to an 18"?

Because I don't know the answer.....
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:03:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 4:10:22 AM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
I guess the question I have is why 18"?

Not a flame, just asking. Is there an advantage to the 18" over a 20"? I understand its two inches shorter, and that may give you some portability, but is there any other real advantage to an 18"?

Because I don't know the answer.....



I am impervious to flame, no offense taken. I personally like the 18" barrel cause it delivers a little more velocity than a carbine, but isn't as long as a 20". It's sort of a ridiculous arguement, and realistically a 16" middy IS the best of both worlds.....

but we here at AR15.com are usually a little wierder and fanatical about such details than most AR enthusiasts.

For example, a guy at my range the other day was all pumped up cause he put a 6.5X20X50mm power scope atop his 20" plain muzzled A2 HBAR. We're two totally different people.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 11:58:02 AM EDT
A 20 inch barrel with a comp gets out to about 23 inches.
A 18 gets you to about 21 in length,
etc

So 18 gets me most of velocity of the 20, mid length tube gives you a nice gas pulse without using a large gas port. Plus there is enough barrel to provide dwell time.

So for me, I've tried short, mid and long, along with various gas port sizes.

If you want a 18 barrel, then get the mid length tube with .085 gas port. Its cycles nice, very smooth without too much bolt speed.

Actually bolt carrier weight, port size, port position can all be tuned for a specific purpose. Like shooting really light bullets, or very heavy VLD's But who's got the time, equipment and money.

The goverment I guess.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:02:18 PM EDT
I think I'll go ahead and roll with a GTS Recon barrel via Denny's Guns.
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