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Posted: 1/1/2006 9:11:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 10:44:01 AM EDT by Rabbit9]
Well, the ABS group buy thread was locked because of discussion, but the great work the folks at MGI / ABS are doing needs to be discussed, so here it is.

I wanted to build something "different"; a gun with the capability of shooting at longer distances, but without the weight associated with a standard SPR type weapon. I was lucky enough to get in on the ABS group buy, and decided to build the gun around their 16" mid-length carbon fiber barrel. This is what I came up with:


The rifle was built on CMT/STAG upper and lower receivers, and uses a PRI gas-buster charging handle, ROBAR NP3 coated BCG, DD 9.0 rail, Larue gas block, PRI muzzle brake, VLTOR clubfoot stock, and a few other misc. pieces. The optic is a TA31-F ACOG.

The initial break in and zero was performed using Federal AE 55grn FMJ ammunition. Using the ACOG and the mil-spec FCG, I am extremely happy with the accuracy of the ABS barrel. The target on the left is the test target, and the target on the right is my FIRST zeroed group.



The FCG group problem will be remedied shortly.

I am just amazed at the weight and inherent accuracy of the ABS barrels. I've owned several custom match barrels that were not as accurate. I can also say that the weight savings offered by the ABS barrel and the DD rail is significant. I don't have access to an appropriate scale, but I can definitely say that this is the lightest AR I've ever built.

ABS stated that all of the barrels from the group buy were shot in one of their QCB (Quick-Change-Barrel) uppers. The thought of an upper receiver that can achieve consistent accuracy while offering the ability to change out STANDARD barrels in less than 30 seconds is something I, and maybe some of the rest of our members, might be interested in.

While I'm counting my blessings, let me also say that I'm continually amazed at the quality of the vendors on this sight, and their willingness to go "above and beyond" the standard level of customer service to help us feed our addiction. Tactical Solutions rushed a box full of parts from the other side of the country in time for me to assemble this weapon for a match this weekend, and Denny hooked me up with the DD rail and the Larue gas block. A BIG thank you to both of these guys.

Other observations on my build include the application of Robar's NP3 to my BCG. This has got to be the slickest $hit known to man. In fact it's a little too slick, as the extractor, even with a crane o-ring, slips easily off the case rim (a quick swap of extractors fixed the problem). The NP3 coating makes cleaning as simple as spraying off and wiping down, but if you opt for this coating, leave the extractor alone.

Anyway, that's my review of what I consider to be a great new product, and some pictures of my new toy.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:12:26 AM EDT
very nice gun and shots
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:14:10 AM EDT
I like it... hot stuff ya got
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:18:45 AM EDT
Very Nice Weapon!
Good Luck
TS
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:22:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 9:29:13 AM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:27:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 9:30:32 AM EDT by j3_]
I saw one yesterday that looked just like that one. If I had a rifle like that I would probably give it to my dad.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:33:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By j3_:
I saw one yesterday that looked just like that one. If I had a rifle like that I would probably give it to my dad.



But, I'd keep the ACOG, VLTOR, LaRue rails, hogue grip............................................ Hm, looks like he's just getting a bag of parts LOL
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:40:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:54:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Covert8645:

Originally Posted By j3_:
I saw one yesterday that looked just like that one. If I had a rifle like that I would probably give it to my dad.



But, I'd keep the ACOG, VLTOR, LaRue rails, hogue grip............................................ Hm, looks like he's just getting a bag of parts LOL



Covert, it was an inside joke. My father was the one that taught me to shoot. I consider myself extremly lucky that even though my father is retired and I'm pushing forty, we still shoot together. I help run our local rifle matches, and my father saw this build for the first time at yesterdays match. He absolutely fell in love with the ABS barrel and the ACOG. There was mention of selling off some of the guns that I would inherit to finance a similar rifle.....unless I just wanted to give him this rifle.

Dad's such a kidder.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:01:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rabbit9:

Originally Posted By Covert8645:

Originally Posted By j3_:
I saw one yesterday that looked just like that one. If I had a rifle like that I would probably give it to my dad.



But, I'd keep the ACOG, VLTOR, LaRue rails, hogue grip............................................ Hm, looks like he's just getting a bag of parts LOL



Covert, it was an inside joke. My father was the one that taught me to shoot. I consider myself extremly lucky that even though my father is retired and I'm pushing forty, we still shoot together. I help run our local rifle matches, and my father saw this build for the first time at yesterdays match. He absolutely fell in love with the ABS barrel and the ACOG. There was mention of selling off some of the guns that I would inherit to finance a similar rifle.....unless I just wanted to give him this rifle.

Dad's such a kidder.



That's cool, I figured that... But I was just saying that if "I" were giving it to "my" dad (which I wouldn't because I've never met my bastard sonofabitchdouchebagPOS father), I would probably keep all that stuff and just give him a bag of extra parts lol.

AR's are such good bonding tools for fathers and sons, glad to hear it still stretches onward!

-Covert
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:07:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twl:
The group in the orange target that was shot with 55gr American Eagle ammo is really something from "off the shelf" 55gr range ammo. Also, done with an ACOG and not a benchrest scope too!

The test target group showing 1/2" at 100yds with BH 68gr is very nice too!

I'd love to see some chrono readings if you can get any.



The trigger will be replaced, and I'll mount a scope on this rig just to see what the BH 77grn match will do. I'll also shoot some rounds through the chrono; judging from the elevation adjustments that I had to make on my ACOG, you're getting higher velocities out of the ABS barrels with the new lining material.

Wishing you, Mike and the rest of the folks at MGI/ABS a very prosperous and happy new year. Thanks again for a GREAT barrel!
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:33:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:54:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twl:
I'm guesstimating about a 3/4" group showing for that 55gr stuff, and that is phenomenal!
Jeez, you can get sub-MOA out of plain range ammo!
I think with a new trigger and a higher power scope, with that 77gr match ammo, you might need a microscope to measure group size!
Just kidding, but it is looking like a real shooter to me!

If there's anything I can help you with, I'm just a phone call or email away.



Acually it's more like 5/8's.....


but not nearly as good as the .40 test target.....


Link Posted: 1/1/2006 10:58:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:28:33 PM EDT
nice looking set up
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:36:49 PM EDT
Nice,very nice, I need to fork up the buxs for a Acog.


TG
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:56:56 PM EDT
Now Thats a nice Weapon
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:03:14 PM EDT
Nice!
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:21:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:22:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rabbit9:
BADA$$



Yes, it is.

great looking rig, Rabbit!

........and post

has it all.

a big claim
with the pix and range report to back it up.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:06:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 5:04:46 AM EDT by Rabbit9]

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Im interested to hear about the coated bolt group. Guy I shoot with mentioned knowing someone who had one and that it was slick. I had considered it, but dont know a thing about what its really like.



You guys are gonna love this.....
I got the idea for the NP3 coated BCG from none other than....Special Weapons.

I owned an SW5 a few years ago (one of the one's that actually worked), that had an NP3 coated bolt. While shooting at the range, my partner and I literally ran it till it was so gunked up it wouldn't cycle anymore. I pulled out the bolt, sprayed it off with carb cleaner, and was absolutely amazed when every last bit of the carbon build-up just washed away. I sprayed it down with some CLP and was immediately back in business. I knew then that I wanted to try the NP3 coating on an AR BCG. Earlier this year, I made an attempt at building an all out pimp gun, and sprung for the $125 to have a new CMT BCG NP3 coated. Slick is not the proper word, the parts are buttery smooth. I gave up on the pimp gun when another manufacturer couldn't produce a barrel to save their lives, and sold off most of the parts, but kept the NP3'd BCG that I used for this project. While sighting in the rifle, I experienced FTE from the very first round. After looking at the cases left in the chamber, I realized that the extractor just wasn't grabbing the cases. Even after installing a crane o-ring, the extractor kept slipping off the case rim. Changing the extractor solved the problem. I can highly recommend the NP3 coating, but leave the extractor alone.

Here's a pic -
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:29:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By j3_:
I saw one yesterday that looked just like that one. If I had a rifle like that I would probably give it to my dad.



Actually j3, I think he should give it to his partner-in-crime. Namely, ME

Rabbit9 - Can't wait to put that puppy on the bench Thursday. I'll bring the 77 gr SMK's, you bring the rifle
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:44:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scoop:

Originally Posted By j3_:
I saw one yesterday that looked just like that one. If I had a rifle like that I would probably give it to my dad.



Actually j3, I think he should give it to his partner-in-crime. Namely, ME

Rabbit9 - Can't wait to put that puppy on the bench Thursday. I'll bring the 77 gr SMK's, you bring the rifle



You KNOW you want it.

Here I go setting out to build an intermediate range blaster, and end up in DMR heaven.

Who' duh thunk it.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:59:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 2:41:59 PM EDT
So who does this fancy NP3 coating?
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:27:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:56:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rabbit9:

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Im interested to hear about the coated bolt group. Guy I shoot with mentioned knowing someone who had one and that it was slick. I had considered it, but dont know a thing about what its really like.



You guys are gonna love this.....
I got the idea for the NP3 coated BCG from none other than....Special Weapons.

I owned an SW5 a few years ago (one of the one's that actually worked), that had an NP3 coated bolt. While shooting at the range, my partner and I literally ran it till it was so gunked up it wouldn't cycle anymore. I pulled out the bolt, sprayed it off with carb cleaner, and was absolutely amazed when every last bit of the carbon build-up just washed away. I sprayed it down with some CLP and was immediately back in business. I knew then that I wanted to try the NP3 coating on an AR BCG. Earlier this year, I made an attempt at building an all out pimp gun, and sprung for the $125 to have a new CMT BCG NP3 coated. Slick is not the proper word, the parts are buttery smooth. I gave up on the pimp gun when another manufacturer couldn't produce a barrel to save their lives, and sold off most of the parts, but kept the NP3'd BCG that I used for this project. While sighting in the rifle, I experienced FTE from the very first round. After looking at the cases left in the chamber, I realized that the extractor just wasn't grabbing the cases. Even after installing a crane o-ring, the extractor kept slipping off the case rim. Changing the extractor solved the problem. I can highly recommend the NP3 coating, but leave the extractor alone.

Here's a pic -
www.hunt101.com/img/314668.jpg



Tom,

Is NP3 the same coating as the barrel liner used in your ABS barrels? If not, would you say the barrel liner would be more appropriate to coat the BCG than the NP3?
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:04:15 PM EDT
Thats odd I called Robar 2 years ago about having a BCG coated and they stated they positively absoloutely would not coat any more AR15 BCGs. I guess things changed. The extractor slip issue was known then as well. They also told me they had to remove the chrome lining of the carrier and replace it with the Nickle/Teflon NP3 material which means it will wear faster, especially since that is where all the hot gasses are flowing. Will that have an adverse effect on the durability of your carrier? Who knows...

Have you guys with ABS barrels noticed if the LMT M4 barrel extension and lugs of your barrels are also coated with the ElectrolessNi/SiCarbide material? I had to pack my barrel back up to have more work done by ABS and could not tell if the barrel exension and lugs were stainless or coated. I was under the impression they were coated from twl.

ABS is doing a little experiment on some coated bolt groups parts on my custom build but we have hit some bumps along the way. I think it will turn out fine once all the kinks get worked out but I dont know if they will offer the service or not in the future due to the kinks we have had so far. I will be sure to put up a post and pics of the finished product when my parts get back from a rework.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:04:21 PM EDT
What are the liners coated with and can it be done in hard chrome?NP3 I think is a Robar industries creation..the company that made polymax coatings.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:06:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 4:18:12 PM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:10:41 PM EDT
ABS uses an outsourced Electroless Nickle / Silicon carbide matrix lining. It is a dull silvery grey. Robar is an electroless nickle / Teflon impregrnated matrix and is much softer and less abrassion resistant material and is a darker grey. Electroless Nickle / Silicon carbide is as hard as hard chrome when propperly heat treated, bonds better to the substrate material, does not have fractures to the substrate material like hard chrome, is more abrassion resistant than hard chrome, is more corrosion resistant than hard chrome, pates thin and even on edges so it does not harm accuracy like hard chrome, and can be applied to stainless steel unlike hard chrome.

I am not sure if the subcontractor ABS uses was changed or if he changed formulas because the old lining formulation was a tan color (electroless nickle is naturally goldish) and the current lining material is light grey.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:21:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 4:25:45 PM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:14:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Friend of mine bought two barrels and loaned me one to work with. He doesnt have a gun to put the second one on yet. So I have it until then. I've got to get it on a gun and see what I can do! The weight sure is nice.

Im interested to hear about the coated bolt group. Guy I shoot with mentioned knowing someone who had one and that it was slick. I had considered it, but dont know a thing about what its really like.



what a great friend.
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