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Posted: 12/30/2005 11:46:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 11:47:07 PM EDT by remedy]
Today was the first time I did some long-range shooting (100yd+) with my 16" Bushy 1/8 M4 profile. I was prompted by a guy who was shooting a 16" hunting rifle in .223 and claimed to have hit out to 640yds with Remington UMC .223 55gr rounds. I was skeptical so I figured what the hell, I was planning on shooting some 75gr and 77gr loadings fairly soon but only had my XM193 on me today and there was no wind. I did lateron use a mag of BH Blue Box 75gr OTM but noticed no change in accuracy. I could hit anything I aimed at. I was not punching paper so can't really compare groupings, which I'm sure would have been a lot better than XM193 at any ranges.

After using the BDC in my ACOG TA01 and sighting in at the various berms, I was hitting consistant shots at 550, 640 and 700 yds. I was very comfortable with my ACOG 4x32 at those ranges, even using my now weaker right eye. The very fine crosshairs of the TA01 helped a lot, and generally the 4x32 power was fine for acquiring the target and seeing the round impact. Wouldn't be suited for small targets, but it works fine for reactive targets and clays.

I took some photos and videos of me shooting. Here they are but be warned it was very sunny out and the camera is zoomed in to the max, so you have to focus on the very middle of the video or the black dot to the center right (the truck tire with "gong") to see the bullet impacts/dirt flying. The pictures below explain the videos.

Here are the videos:

Tannerite shot at 75 yds (Right click, save-as)

Long range with 55gr XM193 - Part 1 (Right click, save-as)

Long range wth 55gr XM193 - Part 2 (Right click, save-as)


Here are the range photos which help point out what is in the long-range videos:

Large Picture Download 1280x960



Large Picture Download 1280x960



I also took some other cool videos of guys firing silenced .308 rifles and so forth, it was all around an awesome range day.


- rem


Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:06:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 3:12:07 AM EDT by mongo001]
600 yds - I placed a shot in the outer part of the 10 ring and the subsequent shot knocked the marker holder out of the marker. I was using handloaded 77gr SMK loads. That's 2 shots in a row in a 1/2" hole at 600 yds. A fluke that will never likely happen to me again, but to date, that's my best 2 shot string.

That was using this rifle:




BTW, that's a pretty nice range.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:51:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:31:40 AM EDT
200 yards. Irons, steel plate 15" x 15" . Hits 75% of the time. Off hand and Prone. Some sitting till the fireants got my ass..... I did an acient indians get the ants off me dance.... Folks done thought I went crazy.. WarDawg
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:37:02 AM EDT
300 yards is all I have access to. I'm simply not good enough to shoot much past 300-400. But that's all I need, really.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:12:34 AM EDT
Jealous of your range..........

I do have private land buddy with 200yds no rules day or night except sunday mornings. We can have tracer fun, laser training and sighting and empty mags at will.

But I crave distance....
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:29:16 AM EDT
M4 out to 500yds. Did quite well.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:03:49 AM EDT
thats one nice lookin range
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:12:10 AM EDT
Futherest known distance with M4 was 500yds all week long with Mk 262 77gr BTHP. For M16 600yds with M855 Ball. All iron sights from prone unsupported.

CD
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:48:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Futherest known distance with M4 was 500yds all week long with Mk 262 77gr BTHP. For M16 600yds with M855 Ball. All iron sights from prone unsupported.

CD


I've heard some claim that M855 will maintain 4 MOA at 600. In your experience, does that claim hold?
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:56:18 AM EDT
I can hit milk jugs and propane tanks at 160yds. Every third or fourth shot is a near miss. I know that's not considered good shooting to a lot of you guys, but It's good enough for me. I concentrate on speed over precision, and I use real-world firing positions, not a benchrest.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 8:55:32 AM EDT
Point Blank. Anything past that only God knows where its going.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 9:36:59 AM EDT
500 yds with iron sights. ammo was federal ae223. I don't know the grouping, but i was hitting the 3' diameter steel gong.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 10:04:20 AM EDT
Thanks guys, I love my range too... Manatee Shooting Club off SR64 in Manatee County, FL which is about 35mins south of me.

I'm so hooked on long-range shooting now (damn isnt it fun?!?!) I'm building a 20" upper and looking at different scopes.

It's a lot more fun than the 75yd hill and the 100yd posts.


- rem
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 10:16:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:
Thanks guys, I love my range too... Manatee Shooting Club off SR64 in Manatee County, FL which is about 35mins south of me.

I'm so hooked on long-range shooting now (damn isnt it fun?!?!) I'm building a 20" upper and looking at different scopes.

It's a lot more fun than the 75yd hill and the 100yd posts.


- rem


Shoot highpower and you learn to do it without a bench, bipod, or scope.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 10:38:06 AM EDT
I've hit a life sized buffalo steel at 1280 yds
once I got the elevation set .

I wouldn't exactly call it grouping , but I was able
to make it DING about 80% of the time .
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 10:40:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 10:41:38 AM EDT by remedy]

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Shoot highpower and you learn to do it without a bench, bipod, or scope.



I've shot without a bipod from prone position many times (not at these ranges though). In fact my bipod is only a month or so old and I've never owned one prior. It's more of a convenience instead of lugging around sandbags or borrowing rests at the range. I'm young and I can do prone or actual combat style shooting just fine, and have practiced it a lot in the past. I just don't prefer to get all dirty and shit when I go to the range anymore. I save that for tactical classes or my friends' private land. Anyway, I'm more likely to use my carry handgun in a life or death situation, so I train with that as my life depended on it everytime I go to the range. Meaning, I train off-handed, one hand mag-changes, draws, etc. I don't normally do that with my rifle(s).


- rem
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 10:47:57 AM EDT
I love the manatee range i can hit the gong .What city you in im in st.pete.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 11:37:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Shoot highpower and you learn to do it without a bench, bipod, or scope.



I've shot without a bipod from prone position many times (not at these ranges though). In fact my bipod is only a month or so old and I've never owned one prior. It's more of a convenience instead of lugging around sandbags or borrowing rests at the range. I'm young and I can do prone or actual combat style shooting just fine, and have practiced it a lot in the past. I just don't prefer to get all dirty and shit when I go to the range anymore. I save that for tactical classes or my friends' private land. Anyway, I'm more likely to use my carry handgun in a life or death situation, so I train with that as my life depended on it everytime I go to the range. Meaning, I train off-handed, one hand mag-changes, draws, etc. I don't normally do that with my rifle(s).


- rem


mmmmkay.....

What we have here is a failure to communicate.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:24:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By remedy:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Shoot highpower and you learn to do it without a bench, bipod, or scope.



I've shot without a bipod from prone position many times (not at these ranges though). In fact my bipod is only a month or so old and I've never owned one prior. It's more of a convenience instead of lugging around sandbags or borrowing rests at the range. I'm young and I can do prone or actual combat style shooting just fine, and have practiced it a lot in the past. I just don't prefer to get all dirty and shit when I go to the range anymore. I save that for tactical classes or my friends' private land. Anyway, I'm more likely to use my carry handgun in a life or death situation, so I train with that as my life depended on it everytime I go to the range. Meaning, I train off-handed, one hand mag-changes, draws, etc. I don't normally do that with my rifle(s).


- rem


mmmmkay.....

What we have here is a failure to communicate.



Yeah WTF.

Where did that come from.

I have kept them in all in the black shootin at 600yds with my 20" DCM AR.

But Im a Noob when it comes to shootin 600yds I have only shot one 600 yrd match and a couple arcoss the course matches, All of are club matches are at 100 or 200 yds
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:45:33 PM EDT
I'm in St Pete too, IM me.

- rem



Originally Posted By Cutter1:
I love the manatee range i can hit the gong .What city you in im in st.pete.

Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:47:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
mmmkay.....

What we have here is a failure to communicate.



Sorry i guess I thought you were saying that using a table, bipod and scope was not practical or something... people have said that to me in other threads. guess i dont know what "highpower" is.

- rem
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 2:30:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
mmmkay.....

What we have here is a failure to communicate.



Sorry i guess I thought you were saying that using a table, bipod and scope was not practical or something... people have said that to me in other threads. guess i dont know what "highpower" is.

- rem



A bipod and a scope are certainly practical. A table, however, is not in the sense that you will not have one available with you in the field.

Read through this to get an idea of what highpower is.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 2:48:26 PM EDT
Nice range
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:56:08 PM EDT
remedy,

Thanks for the pictures

That is a great looking range! Are all of the ranges in Florida that nice?
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:06:57 PM EDT
Remedy,

Nice job, but your yrds are off. The range only goes out to about 540yrds.


I shoot there too.


www.manateegunclub.8m.com/
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 5:59:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 6:08:58 PM EDT by remedy]
That's odd, i double checked them with the owner (Bob i think his name is) and the guys next to me shooting at the same distance. I specifically asked the distance to the gong and was told 640 yards repeatedly by the owner and guys next to me. I asked the distance to the large corner hill and was told 700-725 yards. By "owner" I mean the short guy with the white beard... I always forget his name and I been going there for like 5 years.

I'm calling them tomorrow to DOUBLE verify distances. I know what i was told though as it is scrawled across my other targets I was using. I'll update this thread and photos then.

ETA: Just called a guy I know who shoots there he verified the distances.


- rem



Originally Posted By Spooge5150:
Remedy,

Nice job, but your yrds are off. The range only goes out to about 540yrds.


I shoot there too.


www.manateegunclub.8m.com/

Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:03:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shootsenmeister:
remedy,

Thanks for the pictures

That is a great looking range! Are all of the ranges in Florida that nice?



There is another 500yd range near me and a couple near Miami I used to go to that were out to 1000yds. I dunno if all are "nice" but the ones I go to are. We even have some really nice indoor ranges within 15 mins of my house. I hate indoor though, too loud and stuffy and crowded.

- rem
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:17:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Futherest known distance with M4 was 500yds all week long with Mk 262 77gr BTHP. For M16 600yds with M855 Ball. All iron sights from prone unsupported.

CD


I've heard some claim that M855 will maintain 4 MOA at 600. In your experience, does that claim hold?



NOT HAPPENING. The stuff is just so damn inconsistent. I tried it on the 300 rapids once - never again. It wouldn't hold the 9 ring.

At best, maybe the Mk262 might be able to get such groups, but never M855.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:19:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blackjack272:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Futherest known distance with M4 was 500yds all week long with Mk 262 77gr BTHP. For M16 600yds with M855 Ball. All iron sights from prone unsupported.

CD


I've heard some claim that M855 will maintain 4 MOA at 600. In your experience, does that claim hold?



NOT HAPPENING. The stuff is just so damn inconsistent. I tried it on the 300 rapids once - never again. It wouldn't hold the 9 ring.

At best, maybe the Mk262 might be able to get such groups, but never M855.



Thanks. There's a dumbass in another forum that is making those claims. I intuitively know it to be bullshit, but I wanted confirmation from someone whose BTDT.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:27:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 6:28:37 PM EDT by Blackjack272]

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By Blackjack272:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Futherest known distance with M4 was 500yds all week long with Mk 262 77gr BTHP. For M16 600yds with M855 Ball. All iron sights from prone unsupported.

CD


I've heard some claim that M855 will maintain 4 MOA at 600. In your experience, does that claim hold?



NOT HAPPENING. The stuff is just so damn inconsistent. I tried it on the 300 rapids once - never again. It wouldn't hold the 9 ring.

At best, maybe the Mk262 might be able to get such groups, but never M855.



Thanks. There's a dumbass in another forum that is making those claims. I intuitively know it to be bullshit, but I wanted confirmation from someone whose BTDT.



Which forum would this be? It is not exactly a secret that there are inconsistencies as to the exact dimensions and location of the steel core in the rounds [M855], witch opens up groups signifigantly.

I may not know very much... But I know that the XM855PD that was used by myself at Reading, Mass. that day on the 300 yard line was not capable of holding a group. I was using a Colt Lightweight lower, with a freefloated upper this time ( barrel was stock Colt, which had cleaned rapid targets in the past. It was a 1/7 twist HBAR with a chrome chamber ), 1/2" elevation, 1/4" windage on the sights. I remember coming up about 11.5 minutes from bottom. The reason I was using it is because I was short on Black Hills 77gr. SMKs ( blue box stuff ). I recall my group being not only high, which I fully expected, but scattered from the 8 ring at 9-o' clock to the 8 ring at 3-o' clock.

How is THAT for details!

Add this to the fact that once you tighten the sling on an M-16A2... the damn thing won't hold a good zero.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 8:06:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 8:07:40 PM EDT by 3-4CAV]
550 yards on a 1/2 mansize target, with Model 1 Sales kit on a Vulcan carbon fiber lower, Wolf ammo and a $30 Wal-Mart BSA red-dot sight.

I could hit 5/8 and my buddy could hit 7/8 on the steel silhouette at that range.

not bad for a $500 set-up, using 11 cent rounds, huh?
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 8:36:08 PM EDT
The 600 yd shooting was with M855 ball, new M16A2 and only keep 2/3 rounds on a standard E-type shilohutte at that range. M855 ball will group about 24" at that range, big enough to totally miss the target. Mk 262 will easily cut that in half with iron sights as long as you hold right and read the winds. Granted the target is half the thickness of the front sight at thoose ranges.

CD

PS Happy New Year
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 8:53:56 PM EDT
250 yards, 24X36" steel and 12" plates (I think), 55gr FMJ, open sites, large apature (Oct. 3 Gun Match at Tac Pro in Texas). I timed out on the stage, but made 3 of the 4 stations complete. 16" Mid Length HB M@A build on a DPMS lower, A2 sites. I was pleased.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 9:25:51 PM EDT
I shot Expert with a M-16A1. That would be an iron-sighted rifle with LOTS of rounds through it, with a lightweigt, non-free-floated barrel shooting issue 55 gr rounds from unsupported, tight sling firing posture with a stage of fire at 500 yards.

So doing the same with a match-grade heavy free-floated barrel, match heavy cartridges and a bipod, at that range or greater should be no problem. If there is light or no wind...
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 9:47:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:

Originally Posted By shootsenmeister:
remedy,

Thanks for the pictures

That is a great looking range! Are all of the ranges in Florida that nice?



There is another 500yd range near me and a couple near Miami I used to go to that were out to 1000yds. I dunno if all are "nice" but the ones I go to are. We even have some really nice indoor ranges within 15 mins of my house. I hate indoor though, too loud and stuffy and crowded.

- rem



where!?! I needz to knowz!
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 10:13:23 PM EDT
580 yards.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 10:38:07 PM EDT
350 yards with the AR. Was hitting a 10" skillet consistantly.

350 yards with the AK. Was hitting a 12" wood circle with ease.

500 yards with a .222 BDL. Was hitting a 10" wood circle some of the time
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:17:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:
That's odd, i double checked them with the owner (Bob i think his name is) and the guys next to me shooting at the same distance. I specifically asked the distance to the gong and was told 640 yards repeatedly by the owner and guys next to me. I asked the distance to the large corner hill and was told 700-725 yards. By "owner" I mean the short guy with the white beard... I always forget his name and I been going there for like 5 years.

I'm calling them tomorrow to DOUBLE verify distances. I know what i was told though as it is scrawled across my other targets I was using. I'll update this thread and photos then.

ETA: Just called a guy I know who shoots there he verified the distances.


- rem



Originally Posted By Spooge5150:
Remedy,

Nice job, but your yrds are off. The range only goes out to about 540yrds.


I shoot there too.


www.manateegunclub.8m.com/








Okie Dokie.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:24:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
The 600 yd shooting was with M855 ball, new M16A2 and only keep 2/3 rounds on a standard E-type shilohutte at that range. M855 ball will group about 24" at that range, big enough to totally miss the target. Mk 262 will easily cut that in half with iron sights as long as you hold right and read the winds. Granted the target is half the thickness of the front sight at thoose ranges.

CD

PS Happy New Year


So it does shoot about 4 MOA.......

Have you ever shot M193 at 600, and if so, how did it hold (elevation dispersion if the day was windy)?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:20:26 AM EDT
600yds at Tiger Valley... was able to put them in the black of the NRA High Power target once I had the wind down.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:45:10 PM EDT
460 yards at Koko Head Range in Oahu. COM hits on a 18" Steel gong using a Bushie carbine (14.5 with 2x Compact ACOG) and Q3131.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:41:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
The 600 yd shooting was with M855 ball, new M16A2 and only keep 2/3 rounds on a standard E-type shilohutte at that range. M855 ball will group about 24" at that range, big enough to totally miss the target. Mk 262 will easily cut that in half with iron sights as long as you hold right and read the winds. Granted the target is half the thickness of the front sight at thoose ranges.

CD

PS Happy New Year


So it does shoot about 4 MOA.......

Have you ever shot M193 at 600, and if so, how did it hold (elevation dispersion if the day was windy)?



I've shot both of those variations through a rack M16A2 and you're lucky to hit targets at 600 at all. The M193 actually "grouped" a little better than the 855 but there were still plenty of misses. Some might get lucky with the right combo of barrel and lot number but more often than not, it's just more frustration than it's worth. The guys in the pits aren't too thrilled.

For reference, I shoot Master scores with my service rifle and am a High Master in long range with a service rifle.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:57:00 PM EDT
Good results at 3-400m with an M68 and at 5-600m with a TA01NSN on a longer barrel.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:22:08 PM EDT
300 yards, prone unsupported. I made a nice little group, about 5" with Wolf 55gr.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:57:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
300 yards, prone unsupported. I made a nice little group, about 5" with Wolf 55gr.



Details, please.

What rifle? What exactly is "prone unsupported", sling, no sling, bipod, no bipod, resting on a backpack? What sights? How many shots in the group and how quickly was it fired? What was the wind like?



Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:58:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Have you ever shot M193 at 600, and if so, how did it hold (elevation dispersion if the day was windy)?



My group of Q3131A was about 30" at 600yds (including first shots and subsequent shots where I adjusted for wind as a result of spotting). Once I got the wind down, they tightened up to probably around 18" or so in my case.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:20:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Have you ever shot M193 at 600, and if so, how did it hold (elevation dispersion if the day was windy)?



My group of Q3131A was about 30" at 600yds (including first shots and subsequent shots where I adjusted for wind as a result of spotting). Once I got the wind down, they tightened up to probably around 18" or so in my case.


Thanks. So M193 is basically a little better than M855, as I expected it will be.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:52:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:
Today was the first time I did some long-range shooting (100yd+) with my 16" Bushy 1/8 M4...
After using the BDC in my ACOG TA01 and sighting in at the various berms, I was hitting consistant shots at 550, 640 and 700 yds.



I thought the TA01's BDC was designed for a 20" barrel firing M193, mounted on the M16 carry handle. If so, then how does the BDC work when shooting M193 from a flatop with a 16" barrel, and when using 75gr also?

Aren't the velocities lower and shouldn't the POI change?

I have a TA01 on a 20" Gov't model and haven't had the opportunity to shoot farther than 200 yds yet.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:01:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:

Originally Posted By remedy:

Originally Posted By shootsenmeister:
remedy,

Thanks for the pictures

That is a great looking range! Are all of the ranges in Florida that nice?



There is another 500yd range near me and a couple near Miami I used to go to that were out to 1000yds. I dunno if all are "nice" but the ones I go to are. We even have some really nice indoor ranges within 15 mins of my house. I hate indoor though, too loud and stuffy and crowded.

- rem



where!?! I needz to knowz!




Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:09:24 PM EDT
Two hundred yards, iron sights, unsupported prone and kneeling. I've been able to hit the 12" or so gong with reasonable success using 62 grain SS109 ammo. I haven't tried the 77s in my 16" Colt, but they work very well in my 20" HBAR.
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