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Posted: 12/30/2005 2:01:23 PM EDT
OK, based on reliability, fit & finish, rust resistence, and looks, which do you choose?
Money doesn't matter(their similar enough in price).

I've limited my purchase to these two.

I thought I had decided on the Bushmaster 16in Carbine with Bird Cage Flash Suppressor
Which has the A3 upper with detacheable handle. Heavy Chrome lined barrel.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/frankeva/bcwa3f16.jpg

But a lot of reading on this site has made me question my descision.
Which RRA model is the equvilent to the Bushmaster above?

Thanks for helping a newbie
Frank
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 2:02:09 PM EDT
They both have different pros and cons.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 2:11:14 PM EDT

They both have different pros and cons.


Can you elaborate?

Ones more likely to jam, ones parts aren't as available, customer service, One won't take 40 round mags....ect

By the way, 30 and 40 round mags are important.

Thanks for any advice,
Frank
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 2:14:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 2:17:06 PM EDT by Gary_631]
I have both, and haven’t had a problem with either other then a FTF with bushmaster but that was from a cheap mag. My next rifle will be another RRA though. I like the lifetime warranty. Probably never have a problem out of either, but just knowing it will be covered is nice.

*edit*
If you go with the RRA get a chrome line barrel. It’s an option unlike the Bushmaster.
RRAs version of that bushmaster
www.rockriverarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=AR1293X&storeid=1&image=nbrcara2.gif&CFID=7316920&CFTOKEN=23952866
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 2:17:00 PM EDT
I would go with Rock River for the lifetime warrenty. Also, RRA rifles don't have chrome lined barrels. This is much better for accuracy for a target shooter, but if this rifle will be used for duty and may not have ready access to cleaning, I would go with the chrome barrel.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 2:26:35 PM EDT
I've got the A1 model of that carbine. The heavy barrel is pretty heavy until you get used to it. I don't have the experience to compare it to the RRA but I have 0 malfunctions in about 2000 rds, and it'll hit a coke can reliably at 200 yards.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 2:31:46 PM EDT
RRA.

Lifetime warranty, accuracy guarantee, superb customer service, and in my experience, they have a better fit and finish. They also come standard with a two stage trigger which may or may not be a benefit to you.

However, if you want a chrome lined barrel, you must specify that as an option on the Rock River.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 2:33:55 PM EDT
over the 2 I would go with the RRA

my 2 cents
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 3:31:13 PM EDT
RRA, just make sure you get the chrome-lined barrel.

They make some good stuff and they have really good customer service (from what I've heard, I haven't needed them yet)

WIZZO
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:54:09 PM EDT
+1 For Rock River Arms.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:23:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 5:25:13 PM EDT by enemy]
I have that gun. It's rather heavy feeling for a carbine. I would rather go witha mid-length.

Do a Stag/Armalite build unless RRA has a chrome lined gov't profile barrel setup. Should cost you about the same or less than a Bushy from a store.


Also, there is a great transfer dealer in Montgomery county who will do a regulated weapons transfer for $20 and a non-regulated like that Bushy HBar for $10. Let me know if you want to get in touch with him. His name is John Rhines and he lives in Darnestown.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:41:13 PM EDT
midde rra ia the way to go or armalite
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:46:46 PM EDT
Another vote for RRA. Fit/finish is awesome. I have four different RRA builds and each has functioned flawlessly. Santa is late with my fifth but I can wait...LOL
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:57:37 PM EDT
I own both and will continue to buy both....The only real difference I noticed is that the upper and lower on my RRA seems to fit a little tighter than the Bushy's.....
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:00:38 PM EDT
I would go with the Rock River pretty much because of price. The fit and finish is probably a little better too. Really, you can't go wrong with either. A chrome lined barrel isn't a big deal, but does protect from corrosion and makes it easier to clean. Actually, I wouldn't get either of those. I would buy a Stag Arms M4 upper and Stag Arms complete lower with collapsible stock from Eagle Firearms. You will end up paying about $700-750 for one hell of a rifle. Actually, I would strongly reccomend you do that and not get the Bushmaster or RRA.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:10:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bushwacker85:
I would go with the Rock River pretty much because of price. The fit and finish is probably a little better too. Really, you can't go wrong with either. A chrome lined barrel isn't a big deal, but does protect from corrosion and makes it easier to clean. Actually, I wouldn't get either of those. I would buy a Stag Arms M4 upper and Stag Arms complete lower with collapsible stock from Eagle Firearms. You will end up paying about $700-750 for one hell of a rifle. Actually, I would strongly reccomend you do that and not get the Bushmaster or RRA.




Course, that all depends on wether or not he wants an M4. Some guys want more traditional rifles and aren't as quick to jump on the "M4gery" bandwagon.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:17:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 6:21:39 PM EDT by 4_Rings]
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:17:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
RRA.

Lifetime warranty, accuracy guarantee, superb customer service, and in my experience, they have a better fit and finish. They also come standard with a two stage trigger which may or may not be a benefit to you.

However, if you want a chrome lined barrel, you must specify that as an option on the Rock River.



+1
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:18:29 PM EDT
I'm thinking the solution to the problem would be to buy one of all three makes and be done with it.....
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:33:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By Bushwacker85:
I would go with the Rock River pretty much because of price. The fit and finish is probably a little better too. Really, you can't go wrong with either. A chrome lined barrel isn't a big deal, but does protect from corrosion and makes it easier to clean. Actually, I wouldn't get either of those. I would buy a Stag Arms M4 upper and Stag Arms complete lower with collapsible stock from Eagle Firearms. You will end up paying about $700-750 for one hell of a rifle. Actually, I would strongly reccomend you do that and not get the Bushmaster or RRA.




Course, that all depends on wether or not he wants an M4. Some guys want more traditional rifles and aren't as quick to jump on the "M4gery" bandwagon.

WIZZO



Oh I know, I don't even have an M4gery, it's a 16" HBAR carbine. That Stag Arms setup is just too sweet to pass up IMO for a carbine.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:49:57 PM EDT
Does RR use the same barrels as Bushmaster 4140 or 4150 steel?

Same finish?

TG
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:25:56 PM EDT
I have a Colt CAR 15, a Bushmaster M4, and a Rock River Tactical M4. The Rock River has a superior tight fit between the upper and lower. RRA also uses YHM components which are top notch.

Don't get me wrong, I have a love affair with all my black rifles, I just prefer the RRA and I use it as a raid entry offensive weapon! My life depends on it at times!

They are all good rifles!
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:35:26 PM EDT
Bushmaster
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:47:08 PM EDT
RRA from Legal Transfers. Best AR for the money....Might be the best period.....
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:51:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FrankAR15:

They both have different pros and cons.


Can you elaborate?

Ones more likely to jam, ones parts aren't as available, customer service, One won't take 40 round mags....ect

By the way, 30 and 40 round mags are important.

Thanks for any advice,
Frank



thanks for the tip.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:48:07 PM EDT

Also, RRA rifles don't have chrome lined barrels


Yes and no. You can get chrome lining and I would also recommend the midlength, which is what I recently purchased from ADCO and built up. It is also very accurate.

www.adcofirearms.com/rockriver/rockriverbbls.cfm?page=rra

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:57:20 PM EDT
I say bushmaster.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:00:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blue_Genes:
I would go with Rock River for the lifetime warrenty. Also, RRA rifles don't have chrome lined barrels. This is much better for accuracy for a target shooter, but if this rifle will be used for duty and may not have ready access to cleaning, I would go with the chrome barrel.



They do make chrome-lined models, I have a midlenght one.
Also, while chrome lining does make a difference in accuracy, its not big enough that most first-timers aren't going to be shooting at a level where they are going to notice.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:01:36 PM EDT
Bushy. 4150 chrome lined bbl is standard. On the RRA its an option and its still a 4140 bbl. Not a big difference but I prefer the 4150. Yet both are great rifles that will serve you well. I would recommend against the Hbar though. Govt profile is the way to go. Maybe take a look at the patrolman instead.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:09:51 PM EDT
I had this same dilema just one month ago, and I went with Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:21:42 PM EDT
I own that exact Bushmaster rifle you have up. I love it. Heavy barrel and all.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:39:15 PM EDT
Bushmaster.

I own the XM15-E2S 16" Patrolman's Rifle, and the XM15-E2S 20". Very reliable, never had a problem with either, and they both are more accurate than the Colt that I traded in for to get my Bushmaster 20". Go with Bushy :-)


-Covert
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:39:54 PM EDT
I had the same decision to make a couple of months ago. I really liked the RRA, but could not handle one locallyhinking.gif. I could the Bushy and feel in love with. I am used to AKs so fit and finish on any AR is better than most AKs. I bought the "Izzy" carbine with the M4 barrel profile and love it.
The barrel is actually 14.5" instead of 16", but for me I cannot tell a difference from my buddy's 16". You will be happy with either I am sure, but my vote is for Bushy since that is what I have(but will be gettin a Armalite soon).
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:41:32 PM EDT
My vote is to build one yourself.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:26:41 PM EDT
I'm Sucha Bushmaster Whore...
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:28:09 AM EDT
My RRA Entry Tactical came chrome lined without an additional cost. $825 NIB OTD. Shoot both and see what you like more.

After spending time with an RRA I honestly dont think I could ever buy another company's factory gun. They are that good
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:36:02 AM EDT

If you go with the RRA get a chrome line barrel. It’s an option unlike the Bushmaster.
RRAs version of that bushmaster
www.rockriverarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=AR1293X&storeid=1&image=nbrcara2.gif&CFID=7316920&CFTOKEN=23952866



The above rifle is not the equivelent of the Bushmaster because the carry handle is not
removable.

I think from the experience from the people on this site, I will have to take a good hard look
at RRA. I fell 95% now that I will purchase the RRA.

Thank you all ,so far, for all the info and keep it coming(if there is any more)

Frank
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 4:53:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 5:02:40 AM EDT by FrankAR15]
OK, I really, really want this!!!!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/frankeva/nbgovt.gif

RRA web-site Government Model (click here)

At $2250, I think the Halo Sight is really driving up the price.

Does anyone know if RRA will sell their Government Model with a detacheable
A2 carry handle instead of the Halo sight?

I will try e-mailing them.

It's really cool how it says "Government Model" on it. It has the features I want, the quad rail, 16"
Chrome lined barrel, collapsible stock.
Again, it doesn't say if the Flash hider is detacheable. I Don't want one that is permanent,
so I can eventually mount a class III suppressor.


Hell, if they can't, I might just get the Carry Handle as an add on. Little more than I want to spend
though..

Your thoughts?

Thanks guys
Frank
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:19:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FrankAR15:
OK, I really, really want this!!!!

i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/frankeva/nbgovt.gif

RRA web-site Government Model (click here)

At $2250, I think the Halo Sight is really driving up the price.

Does anyone know if RRA will sell their Government Model with a detacheable
A2 carry handle instead of the Halo sight?

I will try e-mailing them.

It's really cool how it says "Government Model" on it. It has the features I want, the quad rail, 16"
Chrome lined barrel, collapsible stock.
Again, it doesn't say if the Flash hider is detacheable. I Don't want one that is permanent,
so I can eventually mount a class III suppressor.


Hell, if they can't, I might just get the Carry Handle as an add on. Little more than I want to spend
though..

Your thoughts?

Thanks guys
Frank



For that much money... Whew, just save up a LITTLE bit more, buy a good AR (under $1200) and then spend that $2000+ on a Unertl (or U.S. Optics) 10x Mil Dot scope.

Or you can just say "Fuck it", and use that $2000+ to buy TWO rifles... Eh? EH? EEEEEH? C'moooooooon! Go for it!


-Covert
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 7:58:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By YELLOWV: Not a big difference but I prefer the 4150.

Unless you shoot full auto, there is no difference.

4150 is more heat resistant than 4140, but the difference is non-existent unless you are in a war.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 9:17:41 AM EDT
Sounds like you were interested in the Bushmaster patrolmens carbine which in my opinion is the obvious choice here, I’ve had mine for sometime now and it has preformed flawlessly, don’t get me wrong RRA makes a solid carbine as well but in this and in any situation I would go with Bushmaster, "Just ask Blackwater"
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 1:40:39 PM EDT
I say go with the Bushmaster.

The only thing about the RRA that is better is the NM trigger.

If I buy another complete rifle it will be a Bushy. I am Done with Rock River Arms.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:19:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 45Ron:
I say go with the Bushmaster.

The only thing about the RRA that is better is the NM trigger.

If I buy another complete rifle it will be a Bushy. I am Done with Rock River Arms.



Your pic speaks for itself as does Rock Rivers reply to you. You had the rifle opened and closed several times, if there was any debris from the factory,(unlikely) it would no longer be there. Even if debris somehow from whatever source found its way into the groove after closing the receiver and seating the take down pin, your pic still shows excessive force was used. Pound the takedown pin through a Bushmaster and see if they will warranty it.

What your pic looks like and I have seen this before and am not saying this is what happened with yours, is what happens when someone attempts to remove the take down pin not being aware of how it is held in place. Sorry you had bad luck with your rifle I know it sucks but like R.R. said they have to draw the line somewhere. I do wish you good luck with your rifle now that you got it back in service.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:55:57 AM EDT
Bushamster or RRA--either one

just to say: i have both and they both have run fine (except when i let that RemOil sit in my dirty RRA for a few days and that was bad....)

h/w, i noticed that my RRA finish seems to have 'chipped' off at certain places (shell deflector and upper reciever), while the bushmaster is still pretty good--both have ~the same # of rounds through em

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:41:47 AM EDT

h/w, i noticed that my RRA finish seems to have 'chipped' off at certain places (shell deflector and upper reciever), while the bushmaster is still pretty good--both have ~the same # of rounds through em



AlphaGhost, Can you post pics of the RRA Finish? Does the Bushmaster use a different finish
than the RRA?

Also, some say the Bushmaster are more loosley fit and the RRA are tighter fitting. Do you see this in your rifles. (I suspect that tighter fitting is better?)

What other differences do you notice from the two?

Thanks, Frank

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:00:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:16:59 AM EDT
The FBI/DEA beat the crap out of some RRA, Bushmasters, Colt, Armalite. Guess who was the only one who finished without breaking? Rock River Arms. Colt had to resubmit some rifles and they passed also. Bushmaster??? Well, they aparently pulled out of the trials. This is not to say that the Bushy is not a good rifle for civilian use. You and I will never abuse our rifles like the DEA/FBI did when they were looking for a new carbine. However, after reading all the details of the testing process above, I was very impressed with the RRA. I bought the Tactical Entry Model with chrome lined barrel. Very happy with my decision.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:44:44 AM EDT
regalgseguy, these so called test was probably truly based on cost, I bet my bottom dollar.
But, if you wish to go by that, Bushmaster also had a small contract with the military.

Doesn't make it any better than any other AR cause it had such contract.

4140 is for civilians, 4150 is for the real world.

TG

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:32:20 AM EDT
4140 bbl steel is just cheaper.
I know the mil-spec 4150 steel used by Bushmaster, Kolt, Sabre (vanadium), etc, is superior to the cheaper 4140 steel used by rock river and most others.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:48:00 PM EDT
Popularity contest would say, Bushmaster, but they are equally worthy choices.

oh, and by the way, this topic is............







Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:56:01 PM EDT
My Bushy doesn't have M4 feedramp cuts and not sure about Rock River but I think they are the same. Honestly, it comes down to what you like because internally they are the same.
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