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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:54:42 PM EDT
Okay i am going to build and SPR clone. I have two questions. First i will probably build it in 5.56 due to ammo availability and price (im in college). that wasn't really i question but i guess im trying to see if someone can sell me on 6.8 SPC. The real questions is, I saw somewhere on the web a company offering a 18" SPR barrel, mid gas, 1/7 twist, stainless steel, beeed balsted dull finish with a matched bolt, anyone know who has/had this. If anyone knows that would be awsome.
Thanks in advance,
JJ Servis
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:59:44 PM EDT
White Oak Armory has SPR barrels.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:12:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 8:13:15 PM EDT by FlyingFive0]
WhiteOak is the company that makes them. Several dealers on this board carry them. A relatively unknown dealer on the board (John with PDC) specializes in the SPR rifle. After talking with him I decided to let him build my upper instead of doing it myself. Jason with JTac and Steve with ADCO also carry teh barrels and SPR parts.

If you are looking for teh barrel with teh fitted bolt I think it is Compass Lake and I think the same dealers sell them also.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:42:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 3:10:06 PM EDT
Should i go Standard legnth or mid-legnth gas system? Also Chrome bolt and standard carrier or chrome bolth or standard both? I would kill for a gas-piston system for either of the two.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:11:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 4:14:17 PM EDT by Homeinvader]
People these days tend to mean different things with the word "clone". Some torque on a stainless steel DCM barrel with any old free-float handguard and call it "SPR." Others are more exacting. Strictly speaking, the real SPR has very specific name brands and brand names attached to it. 90% of the deployed SPR rifles use Douglas barrels and 100% of these barrels are contoured to accept the OPS Inc barrel collar and muzzled with the OPS Inc. 12th Model brake. I say 90% because the R&D rifles used Douglas, Krieger, and Rock Creek barrels and these may be deployed right now, i just don't know. White Oak makes a nice barrel, but it is not to be used in a true "clone" build. They also all use the KAC 2-stage trigger, not an RRA or LMT 2-stager, not a McCormick drop-in unit, though these are fine units too. Gas system is standard, there are no mid-lengths in the field. Free-float handguards are either PRI carbon fiber for the Mod 0 or KAC Match or Sniper (same thing) for the Mod 1. No Daniel Defence, no Yankee Hill, no Troy or Samson.

Could you make a better SPR-type rifle by going outside spec? Absolutely, but it won't be a fair representation of what our guys are carrying and it won't have the resale value of a true clone, even if it performs better.

All the parts used in both the Mk12 Mod 0 and Mod 1 are available to civvies, but some take more hunting than others.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:14:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
People these days tend to mean different things with the word "clone". Some torque on a stainless steel DCM barrel with any old free-float handguard and call it "SPR." Others are more exacting. Strictly speaking, the real SPR has very specific name brands and brand names attached to it. 90% of the deployed SPR rifles use Douglas barrels and 100% of these barrels are contoured to accept the OPS Inc barrel collar and muzzled with the OPS Inc. 12th Model brake. I say 90% because the R&D rifles used Douglas, Krieger, and Rock Creek barrels and these may be deployed right now, i just don't know. White Oak makes a nice barrel, but it is not to be used in a true "clone" build. They also all use the KAC 2-stage trigger, not an RRA or LMT 2-stager, not a McCormick drop-in unit, though these are fine units too. Gas system is standard, there are no mid-lengths in the field. Free-float handguards are either PRI carbon fiber for the Mod 0 or KAC Match or Sniper (same thing) for the Mod 1. No Daniel Defence, no Yankee Hill, no Troy or Samson.

Could you make a better SPR-type rifle by going outside spec? Absolutely, but it won't be a fair representation of what our guys are carrying and it won't have the resale value of a true clone, even if it performs better.

All the parts used in both the Mk12 Mod 0 and Mod 1 are available to civvies, but some take more hunting than others.

OK?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:19:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
People these days tend to mean different things with the word "clone". Some torque on a stainless steel DCM barrel with any old free-float handguard and call it "SPR." Others are more exacting. Strictly speaking, the real SPR has very specific name brands and brand names attached to it. 90% of the deployed SPR rifles use Douglas barrels and 100% of these barrels are contoured to accept the OPS Inc barrel collar and muzzled with the OPS Inc. 12th Model brake. I say 90% because the R&D rifles used Douglas, Krieger, and Rock Creek barrels and these may be deployed right now, i just don't know. White Oak makes a nice barrel, but it is not to be used in a true "clone" build. They also all use the KAC 2-stage trigger, not an RRA or LMT 2-stager, not a McCormick drop-in unit, though these are fine units too. Gas system is standard, there are no mid-lengths in the field. Free-float handguards are either PRI carbon fiber for the Mod 0 or KAC Match or Sniper (same thing) for the Mod 1. No Daniel Defence, no Yankee Hill, no Troy or Samson.

Could you make a better SPR-type rifle by going outside spec? Absolutely, but it won't be a fair representation of what our guys are carrying and it won't have the resale value of a true clone, even if it performs better.

All the parts used in both the Mk12 Mod 0 and Mod 1 are available to civvies, but some take more hunting than others.



Your rant-foo is weak.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:24:29 PM EDT
Im more concerned with function. i am going to use many name brand thinkgs but i wanted to combine all desireable features for reliability and accuracy
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:42:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 4:43:14 PM EDT by mongo001]

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
All the parts used in both the Mk12 Mod 0 and Mod 1 are available to civvies, but some take more hunting than others.



Order me up one M16A1 lower, please.

Oh, I live in a communist state....................................................oh, and they cost $10k.

Oh, and this communist state doesn't allow peasants to own suppressors.

Everything else is, more or less available.



But you are right. Any railed FF'd stainless barreled rifle has been called an SPR, SAM-R, DMR or RECCE, depending on whatever the person thinks it is.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 5:10:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:04:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 7:05:44 PM EDT by MSTN]
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:27:59 PM EDT
you can get your barrel - mached bolt, and Ops Inc. collar break set up here
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:43:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Carry-A-Big-Stick:
you can get your barrel - mached bolt, and Ops Inc. collar break set up here

John built my MK12MOD0 but I have yet to take possession of it. He has to break in the barrel and it should ship on Monday. John is a great guy to deal with!!!
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:22:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 7:23:39 PM EDT by Bulldogxj]
Here's my lefty SPR...I love this rifle, I know it's old news but just like the setup.


Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:36:04 AM EDT
When I built my SPR "clone" I used the following:

-Bushmaster lower
-Magpul M93 Stock
-Custom made grip
-Colt 1 in 7" 20" HBAR barrel
-AK style muzzle brake
-PRI 3rd Gen. Carbonfiber FF tube
-ARMS #38 SPR PEQ-2-3 top rail
-PRI gasblock/flip up front sight
-ARMS #40 BUIS
-ARMS #22 high rings with Tactical rail cap

Some of the "authentic" SPR parts are hard to locate up here in Canada, so I had to substitue until I can track them down.

SKBY.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:26:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By yfs200:
Your rant-foo is weak.



Not a rant at all. Build your rifle however you want, call it what you want and best of luck to you. But the phrase "SPR clone" has some built-in expectations and come time to ask a question about it on this forum or worse yet to sell it using that phrase, you are going to be less than clear when someone looking for an "SPR clone" instead of an "SPRish" or "SPR-type" rifle comes a calling. It's gotten to be bad enough that poor Wes at MSTN has to use "Perfect Clone SPR" to cut through this.



Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:06:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:

Originally Posted By yfs200:
Your rant-foo is weak.



Not a rant at all. Build your rifle however you want, call it what you want and best of luck to you. But the phrase "SPR clone" has some built-in expectations and come time to ask a question about it on this forum or worse yet to sell it using that phrase, you are going to be less than clear when someone looking for an "SPR clone" instead of an "SPRish" or "SPR-type" rifle comes a calling. It's gotten to be bad enough that poor Wes at MSTN has to use "Perfect Clone SPR" to cut through this.




I still don't fully understand what you are getting at. I think most people here will agree that if someone says "I am building an SPR clone" that it will most likely have some parts that were actually used but it is also more than likely going to be using parts that weren't actually used in the "real" SPR rifles delivered to the military. Most people aren't going to spend the high dollar required to get a Douglas barrel when they can get a WOA SPR contoured barrel that is made from Douglas steel (from what I am told) that will get a person similar results in accuracy. Again, most people know what is meant by "CLONE SPR" and if they are selling one, they are sure to list the actual parts used.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:57:10 AM EDT
So heres what im thinking so far (in an ideal situation):

Noveski 1/7 18' rifle legnth SPR barrel w/ extended feed ramps
M4 Upper
PRI Gen III Rifle legnth handguard
ARMS #38 SPR PEQ-2-3 top rail
PRI Flip front sight/block
Magpul presicion rifle stock or M93B
ARMS #40
Vortex hider or Ops In brake.

I have a RRA lower with RRA match trigger in it i would use. This particular lower is very tight on all my other uppers. no movement even after 1000+rds.

For scope i think a TA55 would be awsome but i could never afford that. probably a supersniper 10x, i have one on my rem 700 LTR and i love it.

Not Sure on bolt yet. I think i would like a chromed bolt, but maybe a standard carrier. Maybe chromed carrier. i don't know. any suggestions?

Defender D-ring, Wolf srpings. I want the rifle to be absolutely reliable and i hear good things about upgrades like these, any comments suggestions please.

I also would like a rifle legnth gas-piston setup but i don't beleive one exists.

What do ya think?

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 9:59:30 AM EDT
Are noveski barrels worth the money over white oak? how much of a difference would i notice, or not notice? its almost 120 more than white oak.

thanks
Jservis
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:39:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jservis:
Are noveski barrels worth the money over white oak? how much of a difference would i notice, or not notice? its almost 120 more than white oak.

thanks
Jservis


No.

Noveske barrels are made from SS Pac-Nor rifled blanks. White Oak Precision has been making precision barrels from SS Pac-Nor blanks for quite some time now (probably before Noveske).

White Oak stuff works and its quality is second to none.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 11:06:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2006 11:07:46 AM EDT by FlyingFive0]
This is my new SPR CLONE. The upper is mine but the lower belongs to John with Pennsylvania Consultants ( he specializes in SPR's and has been to the "ranch" where the real deal SPR's were made). John built this upper and it ships to me tomorrow. I was going to build it myself but after discussing the project with him and hearing of his experience with the REAL SPR's and builder I decided to let him do it. My lower looks the same and I already have a Leupold LR/T M3 scope with ARMS rings waiting for my baby.

ssl31.pair.com/padef/gobbels/index.php?





imageshack.us]

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 11:11:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Randall_Rausch:
For example, you might want something a little shorter, so you would go with a 16" mid length gas system, a rifle handguard and a flip-up front sight out in front.



A mid-lenght gas-system on a 14.5" would be sweet....anyone doing this???
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 1:46:13 PM EDT
CMMG i beleive
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 1:58:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By edwin247:

Originally Posted By Randall_Rausch:
For example, you might want something a little shorter, so you would go with a 16" mid length gas system, a rifle handguard and a flip-up front sight out in front.



A mid-lenght gas-system on a 14.5" would be sweet....anyone doing this???



Noveske makes one calle dthe Afghan
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 3:11:54 PM EDT
Quoted by - swo_daddy

" White Oak Precision has been making precision barrels from SS Pac-Nor blanks for quite some time now "


So would it be safe to say that when I see a WOA barrel for sale it,s going to be a
SS Pac Nor Blank ?
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:32:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sharkbait:
Quoted by - swo_daddy

" White Oak Precision has been making precision barrels from SS Pac-Nor blanks for quite some time now "


So would it be safe to say that when I see a WOA barrel for sale it,s going to be a
SS Pac Nor Blank ?


No, it would not be.

I said White Oak PRECISION not White Oak Armament. Two companies, same owners, two different target markets.

WOA barrels are Wilson. If you want a Pac-Nor or a Krieger in whatever profile you desire, you go to WOP and pay more for higher quality (WOA's quality is pretty high to begin with) and custom work.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:44:47 PM EDT
Thanks
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:46:59 PM EDT
wilson barrels...is that from the same company as Wilson combat? 1911s...
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:53:41 PM EDT
I was told that some of the WOA barrels were made from Douglas steel.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 4:54:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drabchoi:
wilson barrels...is that from the same company as Wilson combat? 1911s...

I don't believe so.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:31:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drabchoi:
wilson barrels...is that from the same company as Wilson combat? 1911s...



No,

Wilson Arms--Barrels
Wilson Combat--1911, AR, other things and they dont make their own barrels
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 5:48:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:
I was told that some of the WOA barrels were made from Douglas steel.


Could be. I know their WOA NM barrels are Wilson. And excellent shooters, too.

I do know White Oak Precision barrels are Pac-Nor or Krieger.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 6:03:13 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 7:09:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:

Originally Posted By yfs200:
Your rant-foo is weak.



Not a rant at all. Build your rifle however you want, call it what you want and best of luck to you. But the phrase "SPR clone" has some built-in expectations and come time to ask a question about it on this forum or worse yet to sell it using that phrase, you are going to be less than clear when someone looking for an "SPR clone" instead of an "SPRish" or "SPR-type" rifle comes a calling. It's gotten to be bad enough that poor Wes at MSTN has to use "Perfect Clone SPR" to cut through this.



In true ARFcom speak it would be known as a "frankenSPR".
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:09:23 PM EDT
Really interested in an SPR build for some time now but this is really one of the only posts that I have seen concerning the SPR. Any one got any links to resources on an SPR build besides this one, such as a "lets your SPR photos" or a success/failure page in spr building?

Thanks
Iso
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 5:22:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 5:23:26 PM EDT by AlexNenadic]

Originally Posted By Isomerase:
Really interested in an SPR build for some time now but this is really one of the only posts that I have seen concerning the SPR. Any one got any links to resources on an SPR build besides this one, such as a "lets your SPR photos" or a success/failure page in spr building?

Thanks
Iso



www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=130&t=143864

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=134&t=141314

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=134&t=141410
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:07:23 AM EDT
Thanks for the links Alex. tried searching arfcom but found only this topic. I tried the archives but it must have been down while I was on it since I kept getting "operation timed out".

thanks again,
Iso
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