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Posted: 12/29/2005 3:56:23 PM EDT
The French MAS49/56 (and please excuse my reference to the frogs) uses an AR-type gas tube that blows into a deep hole in the bolt carrier---but nowhere else. It doesn't get down into the bolt and internal workings. Knowing full well that it's easier said than done, why can't someone design a similar system? You would still use the AR's gas tube, but instead have it blow into a recess that doesn't go anywhere. The "recess" could even be an extension on the carrier key's length to just outside the receiver so nothing gets in there at all. You'd just need a slightly shorter gas tube and different carrier key that was hollow but closed on the backside. All you'd have to do would be to clean out the recess and wipe away residue from the outside of the upper.


Just a thought.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:59:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 4:00:24 PM EDT by ALPHAGHOST]
i still say that the piston setup is still more mechanically sound for more environments....

i wouldn't know anyone that would even try to fix a system that is not really broken anyways, expecially if they will not generate enough interest

anyone know how reliable or accurate the MAS is anyways-?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:04:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
i still say that the piston setup is still more mechanically sound for more environments....

i wouldn't know anyone that would even try to fix a system that is not really broken anyways, expecially if they will not generate enough interest

anyone know how reliable or accurate the MAS is anyways-?





I own both a POF and a L-W upper. I love the piston setup. But this would mean only a longer gas carrier key with a closed off end and a shorter gas tube. It would be kind of a piston/DI combo without the questionable "shits where it eats" phenomena. No additional moving parts. No added weight.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:25:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ABNAK:

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
i still say that the piston setup is still more mechanically sound for more environments....

i wouldn't know anyone that would even try to fix a system that is not really broken anyways, expecially if they will not generate enough interest

anyone know how reliable or accurate the MAS is anyways-?





I own both a POF and a L-W upper. I love the piston setup. But this would mean only a longer gas carrier key with a closed off end and a shorter gas tube. It would be kind of a piston/DI combo without the questionable "shits where it eats" phenomena. No additional moving parts. No added weight.



true, and you get to keep the direct gas sys accuracy....
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:53:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:

anyone know how reliable or accurate the MAS is anyways-?



It survived the drop test.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:36:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:

anyone know how reliable or accurate the MAS is anyways-?



It survived the drop test.




Drum roll/cymbal Oohhh, frog joke. Nyuck nyuck nyuck.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:53:07 PM EDT
The ZM rifle uses an extended gas key as you described

http://www.yankeehillmachine.com/store/lr.html
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:06:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ABNAK:

Originally Posted By yekimak:

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:

anyone know how reliable or accurate the MAS is anyways-?



It survived the drop test.




Drum roll/cymbal Oohhh, frog joke. Nyuck nyuck nyuck.




Thank you, thank you, I am here till Thursday, try the veal. Don't forget to tip your waitress!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:18:37 PM EDT
Hows this for a compromise..a Z&M weapons gas asisted piston upper.So I beleive its already been done.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:54:30 PM EDT
ZM gas system is not plugged, it feeds all the way into the carrier.

It is a modified Morris-type gas system.

It's close though, all you would have to do is plug it . I suspect you'd have to redesign the carrier key, because all the force would be on it, and the shearing problems, etc, etc, start.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:44:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Ridge:
ZM gas system is not plugged, it feeds all the way into the carrier.

It is a modified Morris-type gas system.

It's close though, all you would have to do is plug it . I suspect you'd have to redesign the carrier key, because all the force would be on it, and the shearing problems, etc, etc, start.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/vanloch/Kit/zm_innards_005.jpg




What the hell is the advantage of the ZM system if it just has a longer carrier key? It's still "dirty" and costs beaucoup $$$.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:22:31 AM EDT
Thats why I stick to direct gas.Until the military officialy changes its mind Im sticking with the system thast in place.I ventured away from direct gas once...never again until there is an official change in the design by a company with the contract that produces rifles for the Government.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:33:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pun:
Thats why I stick to direct gas.Until the military officialy changes its mind Im sticking with the system thast in place.I ventured away from direct gas once...never again until there is an official change in the design by a company with the contract that produces rifles for the Government.




That's pretty much the way I feel about it, but it hasn't stopped me from taking the plunge and buying 2 piston uppers. More widespread acceptance/availability would be great, especially if it was the military involved in standardization. I do believe that it is on the way, but how slowly it may occur is the question.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 10:28:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ABNAK:

Originally Posted By Ridge:
ZM gas system is not plugged, it feeds all the way into the carrier.

It is a modified Morris-type gas system.

It's close though, all you would have to do is plug it . I suspect you'd have to redesign the carrier key, because all the force would be on it, and the shearing problems, etc, etc, start.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/vanloch/Kit/zm_innards_005.jpg




What the hell is the advantage of the ZM system if it just has a longer carrier key? It's still "dirty" and costs beaucoup $$$.



the first thing that comes to mind is the ability to have a side folding stock. other than that, your absolutly correct. they are rather nose heavey as well. i had the change to handle a SBR version a few years back.
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