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Posted: 12/29/2005 3:38:00 PM EDT
i have fired both weopons.....and think they ARE both very nice.....the only thing that leans me twords buying a mini..is the m1 garand style action,and the price of course.....i really dont want a kit gun so....tell me what yall think.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:43:23 PM EDT
Mini-14 is not nearly as reliable, nor usually as accurate I had a Mini-14 that would drive tacks with 70 grn bullets and spray lighter weight bullets everywhere. I could keep my double taps much closer together with it than I can with my Ar but it also was much more sensativbe to being cleaned than my AR I know that defies common thinking. I can shoot a few thousand rounds through myu Ar with no jams and only about 300-400 through the Mini but that is just two guns and by no means the "ACID TEST" you decide get which one you want and maybe the other one later on if you change your mind
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:44:19 PM EDT
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=188398

fired both--only own the AR (2 complete, 4 stripped)

the AR has more accessories, more accuracy, easier to mod, cheap/more available hi-cap mags, more 'evil' looking

h/w, i would rather have the mini for bayonet combat
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:44:42 PM EDT
One is cast, inaccurate, has poor sights and an inferior safety, almost no available GOOD high capacity magazines, and the other is a durable, well constructed weapon that is the standard by which all others of its type are judged.

Your call.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:46:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
One is cast, inaccurate, has poor sights and an inferior safety, almost no available GOOD high capacity magazines, and the other is a durable, well constructed weapon that is the standard by which all others of its type are judged.

Your call.



Yeah what he said I didnt have a problem with the safety on my Mini-14 though why is it inferior?

I DID go through a BUNCH of mags to get a few good ones
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:46:41 PM EDT
We have mini 14s at work and they break all the time. They are 3rd burst and semi. The charging handle breaks and some have internal malfunctions.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:53:17 PM EDT
hell no to the mini 14 go with the M4
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:55:02 PM EDT
I have had both within the past year. The mini feels to be a much cruder weapon. Might I say antiquated. Not a good fit and finish in my opinion. There is so much out there for the AR in terms of accessories and for really cheap. Mags for example: A ruger factory hi-cap mag will run at least $40.00. That is if you can find one. A reliable AR mag is about $15. at any gun shop. After market hi cap mags for the mini are not reliable. Then you have accuracy issues with the mini. Spend the extra $250 for the AR. You will feel like you got your money's worth.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:55:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
One is cast, inaccurate, has poor sights and an inferior safety, almost no available GOOD high capacity magazines, and the other is a durable, well constructed weapon that is the standard by which all others of its type are judged.
Your call.



That's why I got one

What's wrong with a kit gun? Parts is parts.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:56:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
One is cast, inaccurate, has poor sights and an inferior safety, almost no available GOOD high capacity magazines, and the other is a durable, well constructed weapon that is the standard by which all others of its type are judged.

Your call.



Yeah what he said I didnt have a problem with the safety on my Mini-14 though why is it inferior?

I DID go through a BUNCH of mags to get a few good ones



i cant say that the set up of the mini's design is inferior in any way--its just the QUALITY and workmanship of the parts and manufacturing that make is less than it could be--Ruger just makes em crappy
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:57:56 PM EDT
damn....i thought the mini was nice...i guess i only put 90 rounds through it though...the only thing that seemed to be wrong with the mini was the rear sight...i dont like how it flips down...can you get a stock mini with fixed rears?........i will have to save up for the m4 than.....it was overall funner...and which do you boys prefer?...a flat top rail or the handled m4?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:01:01 PM EDT
the kit gun kinda scares me..i saw an fn kit gun explode.....it was undoubtedly due to the shit ammo....but it is just freaky to see a fn fal blow in half right in front of you after you just shot it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:02:50 PM EDT
I prefer optics over Iron sights so I like a complete flat top AR I have a Mid length with a Daniels Deffense 12.0 rail covering the little stub I left after trimming the from sight down to a gas block, nothing in the way of my ACOG
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:03:43 PM EDT
I suspect it would break down on maintainence issues. ARs are a finnicky platform and the Mini-14 is a P.O.S.

5,000 in a compressed time frame say 8 hours no cleaning. Whichever keeps running with the least issues wins. However the Mini-14 must have quality mags so as to be fair, the cheapy mags are horrible.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:04:58 PM EDT
5000 rounds in 8 hours? Ever shot 1000 rounds in 8 hours?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:05:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
i cant say that the set up of the mini's design is inferior in any way--its just the QUALITY and workmanship of the parts and manufacturing that make is less than it could be--Ruger just makes em crappy



I agree.

You can get a Mini to be reliable and accurate, but it takes quite a bit of cash. An out of the box Mini against an out of the box AR is not really a fair comparison IMO.

With that said, I saw a picture of a really nice Mini 14 that made me want to rig one up. It's no AR, but I still think it looks pretty damn good atleast.



Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:07:34 PM EDT
That is a sexy Mini
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:13:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
5000 rounds in 8 hours? Ever shot 1000 rounds in 8 hours?



I am sure many here have done it in far less. I can blow through 140 with my AK in 10 minutes without trying. Even if you have to baby it along(AR) and let it cool it would not be hard. Just find the sap to pay for ammo. Furthermore I think niether rifle will make 3,000 in a day without serious maintainence and certainly not without cleaning.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:15:16 PM EDT
optics are nice...but i would prefer to save them for higher caliber weopons such as my 1903 spingfeild 30-06...which was originaly in 30-03....but that was back in the day when it first came out.........personaly..you guy's have me convinced that the m4 is a better buy out of the box.........but.....let us get into theoreticals....is springfeild armory started making mini's (dmn good idea i think) it would most likley be a close out of box comparison with the m4.......that is..if they made it with the same quality as the .308 m-14...which i found in my own experience to be a highly acurate dapendable weopon.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:22:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
5000 rounds in 8 hours? Ever shot 1000 rounds in 8 hours?



I am sure many here have done it in far less. I can blow through 140 with my AK in 10 minutes without trying. Even if you have to baby it along(AR) and let it cool it would not be hard. Just find the sap to pay for ammo. Furthermore I think niether rifle will make 3,000 in a day without serious maintainence and certainly not without cleaning.


5000 rounds in 8 hours would not be a good comparison for any rifle platform.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:25:51 PM EDT
I would bet my life on a mini-14, not a tack driver but a reliable shooter with quality mags.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:27:54 PM EDT
I've had 3 Mini 14s through the years before I finally got my first AR15 , and they just don't compaire with the AR's . I still like the mini's , I think it's a cool design , but if I was going to only have one rifle it would be an AR hands down .

Don't know why you wouldn't want a kit , I have built 4 AR's with J&T kits and they all run 100% even when bump fired with wolf ammo . And the accuracy is much better than I have ever gotten out of a Mini . My 2 cents .
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:28:42 PM EDT
Hey, check out the kel-tec su-16. That's said to be very reliable and it takes ar mags. If I was looking for a rifle besides the ar in .223 I would get that before the mini-14. I've had 3 mini's and got rid of them because magazine issues. Good hi-cap mags are very difficult to find. I had one 30 rd. that was good and the rest were junk. The thing is you don't know there junk until you buy them and you can't really fix them that well. Look at www.ktrange.com and check out the su16 forum. They have pics and links to some test videos.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:33:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Yeah what he said I didnt have a problem with the safety on my Mini-14 though why is it inferior?

I DID go through a BUNCH of mags to get a few good ones



A good safety can be manipulated with the thumb instead of the forefinger.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:35:00 PM EDT
ok I dont see the problem, that way the last thing you do before you fire is knock off the safety as you are inserting your finger in the trigger gaurd? I just never saw this as a design flaw
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:05:41 PM EDT
did anybody see that show on "Hogzilla" that came on national geographic channel. That dude popped that wild boar with a stainless mini-14 ranch model. It made a nice little exit wound.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:10:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
ok I dont see the problem, that way the last thing you do before you fire is knock off the safety as you are inserting your finger in the trigger gaurd? I just never saw this as a design flaw



Lots of guys (myself included) think that its not a good idea to have a safety that requires you put your finger in the trigger guard to manipulate. Just too close to the trigger.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:50:56 PM EDT
I sold my Mini-14R to get an AR.
The AR is at least 1 or 2 orders of magnitude
superior to the Mini. Accuracy, ergonomics, versatility,
availablilty of accesories, etc.

The Mini isn't even a remote contender to the M4/AR15.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:54:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 5:55:31 PM EDT by Big-FED]
Before I graduated to an AR, I had a Mini-14 for a bunch of years (181 series). Other than buying some crappy mags, I never had a problem with it and I never tried to exceed what I knew it could do. Mine was not the Ranch Rifle and with the iron sights and Federal 55gr SP, it was better to be on the kicking team than the receiving team out to 150-175 yds. That's all I needed it to do, man or beast. I shot a variety of ammo through it and it ate it all, including some early M855 I had from my days at Ft. Benning. It never broke in however many thousands of rounds and the only MFs were mag related. And I ran it dirty many times. Now that I am in the AR phase of my life, I no longer have it, but would use one for a truck/car rifle again in minute..

As far as the safety, that design worked well for the M-1 and M-14, both of which I am very capable with. It was easy to use, easy for range officers (and others) to see that it was applied. We had guys dropping their mags when using the old M-1 Carbine trying to hit the safety. Kind of embarassing converting your 15 or 30 rounder semi into a single shot so receiver mounted buttons and switches are not always better.

MHO!

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:54:57 PM EDT
I think the new mini's are pretty ugly. I thought the old front sight looked like crap until I saw the new ones.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:11:31 PM EDT

The "4-speed" model is a whole lotta fun. With the .22 Ciener kit it's even funner.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:17:26 PM EDT
I love those standard rear sights. That's a cool looking weapon. I never liked how the front of the mags had that little bitty hole that you had to line up with that little bitty pin. Some times it would look like the mag was set in correctly but wasn't. I like the way ar mags just slap in. There's no question if it's in or not.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:19:28 PM EDT
I own both and prefer a good high quality AR15 to a mini 14. The mini 14 sights are a to little crude that my biggest complaint. In general mini 14s work best by far with Ruger factory magazines. So magazines options are limited but the 20 rounders are available again. I have not had many issues with reliability with the AR or the Mini but I never go more than 350 rounds without a good cleaning and lube on either one.

I have been surprised at how popular Mini 14s are getting to be with Northern Alaska Natives. I've seen more than a few beat to hell and back again strapped to snow machines piloted by Northern Alaska Natives. Basically the ones I've talked to claimed they are one of the few semi auto available to them that take such a beating in harsh conditions and continue to work. They use very little to no gun oil for lubrication because many oils don't work well in such cold climates. Rumor has it, more than a few big game animals fall every year with "less than a magazine full".
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:21:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gasbolt:
i have fired both weopons.....and think they ARE both very nice.....the only thing that leans me twords buying a mini..is the m1 garand style action,and the price of course.....i really dont want a kit gun so....tell me what yall think.



The Mini-14 isn't really that close to the M1 Garand action, the gas system is very simplified more like the M1 Carbine...

Both platforms are generally reliable, but most people will find that the AR platform is more accurate out of the box. And while the Mini-14 has a big aftermarket of accessories, it can't match the flexibility of the more moduar AR design and the overwhelming aftermarket it has cultivated. However, if you are on a tight budget, you will find that you can probably buy a Mini-14 for 1/2 the price of an M4. Supposedly Ruger has recently redesigned the Mini-14 and new 2006 production is supposed to be much more consistantly accurate than older models were. I've heard they claim roughly twice as accurate (< 2 MOA on average instead of ~ 4 MOA at 100 yds), but time will tell if they live up to those claims.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:21:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
i cant say that the set up of the mini's design is inferior in any way--its just the QUALITY and workmanship of the parts and manufacturing that make is less than it could be--Ruger just makes em crappy



I agree.

You can get a Mini to be reliable and accurate, but it takes quite a bit of cash. An out of the box Mini against an out of the box AR is not really a fair comparison IMO.

With that said, I saw a picture of a really nice Mini 14 that made me want to rig one up. It's no AR, but I still think it looks pretty damn good atleast.

www.perfectunion.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=94022


I like it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:25:57 PM EDT
Mini-14s are just stupid.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:30:40 PM EDT
To CombatJack.Thats my one reservation with the M14..I hate having to put my finger in the trigger guard to release the safety.Same with the mini but the mini cannot be compared to the AR for acuracy and durability...just get the barrel hot and see what groups look like.Im not sure if it has a 5.56 chamber.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:36:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jelly:
I own both and prefer a good high quality AR15 to a mini 14. The mini 14 sights are a to little crude that my biggest complaint. In general mini 14s work best by far with Ruger factory magazines. So magazines options are limited but the 20 rounders are available again. I have not had many issues with reliability with the AR or the Mini but I never go more than 350 rounds without a good cleaning and lube on either one.

I have been surprised at how popular Mini 14s are getting to be with Northern Alaska Natives. I've seen more than a few beat to hell and back again strapped to snow machines piloted by Northern Alaska Natives. Basically the ones I've talked to claimed they are one of the few semi auto available to them that take such a beating in harsh conditions and continue to work. They use very little to no gun oil for lubrication because many oils don't work well in such cold climates. Rumor has it, more than a few big game animals fall every year with "less than a magazine full".



HEy, are those 20 rounders ruger made or aftermarket. If they made 20rders that might be cool. I always like the 20 rd mags better anyway.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:54:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pun:
To CombatJack.Thats my one reservation with the M14..I hate having to put my finger in the trigger guard to release the safety.Same with the mini but the mini cannot be compared to the AR for acuracy and durability...just get the barrel hot and see what groups look like.Im not sure if it has a 5.56 chamber.



From everything I've read, despite being marked .223 Rem, the Mini-14's chamber is permissive enough to safely shoot 5.56x45 NATO ammo. You are right about the relatively skinny Mini-14 barrel and heating. Mine will shoot decent groups when it is cool, but it does start to open up noticeably once it gets hot. Durability, I've had my Mini-14 for around 15 years and no problems so far. You have to find good mags. Most of the aftermarket mags are junk (USA brand, for example -- of course their AR mags are junk as well). I have a whole mess of pre-ban Fed-Ords which were the best you could buy in the day. Unfortunately they went out of business during the ban. I've heard PMI bought their tooling and currently makes good Mini-14 mags, but they are hard to find.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:08:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gasbolt:
damn....i thought the mini was nice...i guess i only put 90 rounds through it though...the only thing that seemed to be wrong with the mini was the rear sight...i dont like how it flips down...can you get a stock mini with fixed rears?........i will have to save up for the m4 than.....it was overall funner...and which do you boys prefer?...a flat top rail or the handled m4?




I have a MINI 14 ranch rifle and a Flat top M4, I will say the M4 wins every time, wayy more accurate and also, the Mini just cant hold a 3inch group for me, and Im no novice shooter...
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:45:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 7:47:16 PM EDT by boltcatch]
If I wasn't willing or able to shell out the money for an AR, and wasn't willing or able to wait until I could, I'd just get an AKM clone rather than a Mini-14. There are more good cheap AK mags out there than you could ever possibly need, and if you can't afford an AR then you probably can't afford to shoot decent 5.56, either.

You can also get yourself a CMT M4gery for just a couple hundred more than a nice Mini-14.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:48:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By boltcatch:
If I wasn't willing or able to shell out the money for an AR, and wasn't willing or able to wait until I could, I'd just get an AKM clone rather than a Mini-14. There are more good cheap AK mags out there than you could ever possibly need, and if you can't afford an AR then you probably can't afford to shoot decent 5.56, either.

You can also get yourself a CMT M4gery for just a couple hundred more than a nice Mini-14.


Kel-tec su-16, plus it takes ar mags. similar inards as an ar I've heard.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:04:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By buzter:

Originally Posted By Jelly:
I own both and prefer a good high quality AR15 to a mini 14. The mini 14 sights are a to little crude that my biggest complaint. In general mini 14s work best by far with Ruger factory magazines. So magazines options are limited but the 20 rounders are available again. I have not had many issues with reliability with the AR or the Mini but I never go more than 350 rounds without a good cleaning and lube on either one.

I have been surprised at how popular Mini 14s are getting to be with Northern Alaska Natives. I've seen more than a few beat to hell and back again strapped to snow machines piloted by Northern Alaska Natives. Basically the ones I've talked to claimed they are one of the few semi auto available to them that take such a beating in harsh conditions and continue to work. They use very little to no gun oil for lubrication because many oils don't work well in such cold climates. Rumor has it, more than a few big game animals fall every year with "less than a magazine full".



HEy, are those 20 rounders ruger made or aftermarket. If they made 20rders that might be cool. I always like the 20 rd mags better anyway.



Yes, Ruger 20s are available. These guys are currently out but usually have them.

www.eaglefirearms.net/High_Cap_Magazines.htm
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:21:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 8:24:04 PM EDT by SC-Texas]

Originally Posted By TriggerFish:



The "4-speed" model is a whole lotta fun. With the .22 Ciener kit it's even funner.


I will see your 4-speed model and raise it a VFG and Ultimak Rail



The barrel heats up real quick. Run a few 40rd mags through it and you find out why the M16 is the battle rife of the US Army.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:39:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 9:06:48 PM EDT by TriggerFish]

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:I will see your 4-speed model and raise it a VFG and Ultimak Rail

...Nice, but now you need to get the Ruger® grip & the M16A1 flashhider!!

& the bayonet & laser too!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:54:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
ok I dont see the problem, that way the last thing you do before you fire is knock off the safety as you are inserting your finger in the trigger gaurd? I just never saw this as a design flaw



Lots of guys (myself included) think that its not a good idea to have a safety that requires you put your finger in the trigger guard to manipulate. Just too close to the trigger.



To me the safety is the BEST feature on the Mini-14. It's just like an M-1 or M-14, and completely intuitive. Push safety out of triger gurad =ready to fire.

That being said, there is a reason an AR costs twice what a mini does, and you will see the difference in accuracy.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:06:51 PM EDT
To software janitor,for durability i mean abot the rifles receiver and some internal parts casted instead of forged.Wich may or may not ever be a problem.I have a fed ordnance M14 in my collection and it to is a cast receiver so no problems as of yet.Mine is old a 3 digit serial#.It was built with GI M14 parts wich Im going to canabilize when my chinese receiver gets back from heat treat
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:22:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pun:
To software janitor,for durability i mean abot the rifles receiver and some internal parts casted instead of forged.Wich may or may not ever be a problem.I have a fed ordnance M14 in my collection and it to is a cast receiver so no problems as of yet.Mine is old a 3 digit serial#.It was built with GI M14 parts wich Im going to canabilize when my chinese receiver gets back from heat treat



I'd be more concerned with the strength of the Mini-14 receiver if I'd ever heard of someone breaking one. The Mini-14 has been on the market around 30 years now and if that was a problem in the real world, I'd imagine it would be mentioned every now and then. There are plenty of people who have run tens if not hundreds of thousands of rounds through Mini-14s and they are still running. Not to say that they never break, but few people would claim that ARs never break either.

FWIW, Ruger uses a lot of cast parts in their handguns, and the Red/Blackhawk series and GP100, etc, are all widely considered to be stronger and able to handle hotter loads than comparable Smith & Wesson models which use forged frames. So I'm not sure forged vs. cast by itself is always an indication of durability.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:20:29 PM EDT
The M-4 is better in every way. In keeping with the traditions of many at AR15.com, I will now leave the discussion, stating only my opinion and offering no explanation whatsoever.....
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 12:05:11 AM EDT
The Mini 14 is an excellent civilian weapon. Its not fair to compare it to an AR15, its outclassed.
It doesn't have the durability to be a military weapon, which is what kept it from being adopted by both France and the UK. Under civilian and LE use, its a fine weapon and will serve well however when subjected to the abuse of a military weapon it will fail. It wasn't designed to take the abuse of thousands of full auto magazine dumps while shooting blanks. That being said, its a very

reliable and rugged weapon in civilian life. Its very unlikely that you will inflict the instituational abuse on your weapon like the military does on its own. Magazines are more expensive than equivalent quality AR magazines, this is true. Factory 20's can be had for around 35.00 a piece, which is what I was paying for Labelle mags during the ban*Ruger factory mags were in the hundreds*PMI makes the best aftermarket magazine, which are practically copies of Ruger

magazines however 30 round PMI's cost as much as factory 20's which makes them silly to buy.
A solution to this is Thermold mags, which are very reliable magazines for the Mini 14. I have several, including new ones from ProMag which have fed thousands of rounds without a hitch. I paid 10 bucks a peice for these.... My LEO Mini 14 GB will shoot slightly under 2MOA with BH bluebox 68grn HP's and around 3 with XM193, as long as it stays cold. When it gets hot, the

groups grow but its still capable of minute-of-bad guy. The "new" Mini is supposidly capable of 2 MOA or better as a result of design changes. GB models are made with select parts and the actions are trued to make them more accurate. Ruger knows the end user and much more care is made assembling and selecting parts for the AC and GB models. The "new" GB is probably even more accurate, but would be as much as an AR. Ranch and Standard Mini's seem to be between 4

and 6 in my experience, which is enough for thier intended purpose....but not enough for me. If you buy a Mini get a GB or a "new" Mini 14. For a casual shooter who doesn't have a Rambo complex and doesn't clean his weapon after every range session the Mini makes an excellent weapon. Given that the price of a GB is between 650-775, that puts them in AR territory so the savings is lost. I wouldn't reccomend a Ranch or Standard "old" Mini 14. The AR is a better weapon in every way, but if you are a casual shooter the AR may be a little to "involved" for you. I love my Mini, but if you saw me on CNN during the next hurricane it would be with my AR.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 12:35:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 12:36:17 AM EDT by 53vortec]
I own both, I like both. Quality mags are cheaper for the AR15.
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