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Posted: 12/29/2005 5:46:26 AM EDT
Due to an Executive Order signed by President Clinton, the US military can no longer "surplus" ammunition, except via the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP), and the CMP does not sell 5.56/.223 ammo. US military ammo (most notably from the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant) used to be widely available, but has become quite scarce and the prices quite high, in the last few years. Though some military ammo components are "saved" by contractors disassembling the ammo and selling the components, most expired or out-of-spec lots of ammo are burned. Billions of rounds of ammo, paid for by US tax dollars, are burned yearly.

Is their some type of reasoning behind this??? billt.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:00:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By btill:

Is their some type of reasoning behind this??? billt.




Yeah. Stupidity of the government.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:01:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 11:39:47 AM EDT by AssaultRifler]

Originally Posted By btill:

Is their some type of reasoning behind this??? billt.



"signed by President Clinton" says it all. Brady Bill, Assault Weapon Ban, ban on Norincio imports, etc. At one time it was rumored he was going to stop the sell of surplus ammo cans. All part of his War On Gun Culture.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:15:11 AM EDT
Same reason police trade-in guns have to be sold out of country or destroyed - can't have them being used in crime on the streets of America
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:16:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Same reason police trade-in guns have to be sold out of country or destroyed - can't have them being used in crime on the streets of America



how is CDNN doing it?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:17:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 6:18:32 AM EDT by CavVet]
I find this hard to believe these days, hell the .mil is trying to buy ammo from foreign sources. "Expired"?


"Out of Spec"? Now if that is the pretzel in the PD trash, they can burn it all to hell, I dont buy bulk surplus ammo.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:40:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Same reason police trade-in guns have to be sold out of country or destroyed - can't have them being used in crime on the streets of America



how is CDNN doing it?




Depends on the department. Some of those are traded in to a company, like Glock, then find there way back onto the market.


Some departments insist the guns go out of state, some say they have to go out of country
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:14:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Same reason police trade-in guns have to be sold out of country or destroyed - can't have them being that's dept [policy, not fed law
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:15:57 AM EDT
This is something that never fails to really piss me off whenever I shell out money for ammo. We already paid for that ammo, too, which just makes it even worse.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:20:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 3:21:05 PM EDT by Special-K]
Same with the M-14. They were destroying them until public (gun culture) pressure forced them to stop. Clinton decided that he could, rather than ever see them allowed "De-Auto'd" and sold via CMP, give them to other counties (IIRC the Baltic nations, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia) as foreign aid - along with millions of rounds of 7.62 ammo. Now in Iraq and Asscrackistan we're scrambling for M-14's in a DMR role. I have read reports (on this board) that many of the M-14's over there sit idle because even basic things like Mags aren't in the system anymore. I'm pretty sure that alot of this has been worked out, but they never should have been given away in the first place.

As for ammo, why would they burn ammo if we can't produce enough on our own and have to go to the israelis and others to make it for us?


-K
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:08:33 PM EDT
Just which executive order was this, anyway?

No one ever mentions the executive order number.

Maybe it's all a big myth started on AR15.com .
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:47:12 PM EDT
So you're saying it's a myth that the military can no longer surplus small arms ammunition?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:03:00 PM EDT
If civillians can't buy military grade ammo, then how is ammoman selling it?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:07:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:14:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By James_Brown:

If civillians can't buy military grade ammo, then how is ammoman selling it?




Because they are buying it from the FACTORY, not from the military.


ie: the military is no longer able to sell off surplus ammunition - it gets burned.


Some of it does get de-mil'd - they take it apart and sell the components
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:35:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By boltcatch:
So you're saying it's a myth that the military can no longer surplus small arms ammunition?



That was sarcasm... That's what the "" was for...
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:11:29 PM EDT
You never can tell around here.

I seriously hope the "military grade ammo" James_Brown is referring to isn't XM193 or XM193PD. Ick.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:33:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 7:33:56 PM EDT by MurdockTheCrazy]

Originally Posted By boltcatch:
You never can tell around here.

I seriously hope the "military grade ammo" James_Brown is referring to isn't XM193 or XM193PD. Ick.



He means https://www.ammoman.com/webstore_223.htm the first and second ones on that page.

They aren't XM855 or XM855PD. They're real M855, it was just never sold to the gubment, and thus is legal for ammoman to sell.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:49:10 PM EDT
M-14s cannot be sold back to the public, because in the eyes of the ATF, once a machine gun, always a machine gun. They would be illegal, even if they "de-auto-ed" it
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:57:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Trey-W:
M-14s cannot be sold back to the public, because in the eyes of the ATF, once a machine gun, always a machine gun. They would be illegal, even if they "de-auto-ed" it



That's policy, not law.

Heck, as far as I know, US Military machineguns aren't registered like NFA machineguns... I could understand 'once registered, always registered', but that's not the same thing.

Nothing an executive order or two from a sane president couldn't fix... That or a good threat from said president to fire the whole agency.

I can dream, can't I?



Vote for me in '08, i promise to give every agency in the US government a heart attack, and reduce the size of the federal government so it'll fit in a single wide mobile home.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:45:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txgp17:
Executive order From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive of US Executive Orders

I searched hard on key words like ammunition, 223, 5.56, 7.62, gun, firearm, and demilled. I couldn't find any EO from the 80's or 90's that required .gov ammo to be demilled or destroyed before being disposed of. I'm not calling anyone a liar, just saying I didn't find it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:58:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txgp17:

Originally Posted By txgp17:
Executive order From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive of US Executive Orders

I searched hard on key words like ammunition, 223, 5.56, 7.62, gun, firearm, and demilled. I couldn't find any EO from the 80's or 90's that required .gov ammo to be demilled or destroyed before being disposed of. I'm not calling anyone a liar, just saying I didn't find it.



Exactly my point.
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