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Posted: 12/28/2005 4:05:40 PM EDT
Looking for 18 or 20 inch barrel.
Looking to keep weight down whereever possible.
This thing will ONLY get fed the best quality 68 to 77 grain ammo.
Will not get shot alot, or often.
Looking to keep it under 1500 without optics.
Planning on either a IOR super M2 6x or Super Sniper 10X scope.
Needs a DD handguard (it's the lightest right?).

just want a little more range and 'oomph' than my carbines for use with serious ammo.

Options so far:
RRA 20inch A4 SS 1:8 with DD 12.0 match trigger and weaver gas block.
RRA 18inch varmint rifle, DD 12.0 match trigger.


I'm stuck on RRA for the trigger, but any good trigger will do.

I want a complete rifle from one warrantied respectable source, no parts guns or halves.
I want to buy it how I'll use it, only adding optics and nothing else.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:06:54 PM EDT
I'd look into one of those carbon fiber bbls if you want a super light accurate setup...
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:47:21 AM EDT
It's not a super lightweight but it is ideally suited for your ammo selection.
If you build it yourself you can save lots of money. Minus the optics, I got about a grand in this one, of course I've gotten deals from friends in the industry. Even at retail, you could do this for roughly $1500 minus the optic if you buy it in parts and assemble it yourself.

Bushmaster lower
RRA 2-stage match trigger at 4.5#
Colt HBAR 20" 1/7 with Vortex FH
PRI Carbon Fiber Gen III handguard with PRI flip up FSB
Leupold Mark 4 3-9x36 MRT with TMR reticle and Mark 4 rings.
GG&G MAD BUIS and Scout Rail riser
Harris Bipod with ARMS QD mount
Badger Ordnance Gen I tactical latch
TangoDown pistol grip

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:07:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 10:09:17 AM EDT by JBowles]
I would go ahead and get the 1:7 twist.

or 1:6.5 if you want, the 1:6.5 will let you shoot serria's 90gr SMK

Im sure the guys at ADCO can set up up with awesome complete rifle that matches those specs.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:06:06 PM EDT
I got a industry partner who I've dealt with before to build and zero me a setup for a great price.

It's gonna be a mid-heavy 1/8 18" barrel with a vortex on the end. Flat top upper, PRI low gas block with a Samson 12.0 over it. RRA 2-stage match trigger, SPR grip, Magpul Trigger guard, Vltor A1 Clubfoot with SOG pad, Harris 6-9 notched no swivel on ARMS mount, IOR 2-12x32 scope on IOR rings.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:21:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
I'd look into one of those carbon fiber bbls if you want a super light accurate setup...



Did you see his price requirement? A carbon fiber barrel costs $600 for an 18" right now and more for special add ons or lengths longer than 18". Id look at thinner profiled 18-20" match barrels. Fluting might get your price over the intended amount. You will be cutting it close one you start adding FF rails, covers, trigger, bipod etc.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:46:16 PM EDT
Have it chambered in 6x45, then you can shoot bullets as heavy as 85 gr. without any problems.

Unhhh, one problem... you've got to hand load all your cartridges.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:50:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:53:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JTAC_Supply:
This one put 5 77grn SMKs in .65 at 100. That is pretty optimal

img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/jtacsupply/Recon-12.jpg



no doubt if I was budgetless on your projects I would've hit one of your custom uppers for sure.... much drool was lost on your ads!
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:53:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maddog_44:
Have it chambered in 6x45, then you can shoot bullets as heavy as 85 gr. without any problems.

Unhhh, one problem... you've got to hand load all your cartridges.



I really wished this round would come out from on of the ammo makers, it is a very nice little cartridge, but I think its following (those that would almost rather hand load) have kept it off the radar for a long time.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:09:27 PM EDT
That's easy. JP Enterprises CTR-02. How's 0.172" group at 100 yards.

Here's another awesome group! Check this out!

JP built my upper (with Mike Voigt) and used an 18" Oly 1:8 SS barrel. I get .5 MOA all day long with 69gr. SMK's and Varget, no case prep and loading them as fast as possible on a Dillon RL1050.

As for going light, JP can go as light as you want. From aluminum handguards, you can drop down to carbon fiber. Super then barrel contours. Aluminum bolt carriers, etc.

The rifles are awesome and stand second to none. Cruise around the website and you won't be disappointed.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:50:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By uscbigdawg1:
That's easy. JP Enterprises CTR-02. How's 0.172" group at 100 yards.

Here's another awesome group! Check this out!

JP built my upper (with Mike Voigt) and used an 18" Oly 1:8 SS barrel. I get .5 MOA all day long with 69gr. SMK's and Varget, no case prep and loading them as fast as possible on a Dillon RL1050.

As for going light, JP can go as light as you want. From aluminum handguards, you can drop down to carbon fiber. Super then barrel contours. Aluminum bolt carriers, etc.

The rifles are awesome and stand second to none. Cruise around the website and you won't be disappointed.


SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK



How many grains of Varget? and as long as I'm being nosey, what primer are you using?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 11:59:47 PM EDT
Hi Maddog_44,

No problemo. It's either 25.0 or 25.5. Can't remember, but it's in the Sierra Reloading Manual under "most accurate load" for .223 out of an AR. The primer is a standard Winchester Small Rifle primer. Again, I do zero case prep as I leave all the brass I fire on the ground, and don't really have the patience for prepping brass to begin with (except for my bench rifles...and I'll fight for that brass as it's all non-standard calibers).

I developed the load with a couple different criteria. First, it had to use basic components. No fancy powders, no fancy primers, etc. Varget can be found just about everywhere and in an emergency, my range back home sells 8# kegs at a good price. I use Winchester Small Rifle primers in my IPSC Open pistol so, as I buy primers in large lots anyways (I shoot about 30k rounds out of each IPSC pistol per year) I don't want to have to order anything special. Use what's on hand. Lastly, I wanted to use basic 55gr. bullets, maybe 62gr. bullets for their cost bonus, but after doing cost comparisons, the 69gr. SMK, while a "target" bullet, can be bought cheap in bulk. Thank you NRA High Power shooters and Varmint Hunters!

I arrived at Varget though after doing some really brief comparison testing. Thankfully my father is a bench shooter and THE MAN when it comes to testing loads. So since he owns 3 Contenders in .223, and a couple of .223 long guns, I just stole the pages of his reloading/ballistics data that he had. He's literally compared every light to medium/medium-heavy bullet and powder combinations there are.

With all that, I took out his "cheap" load that yielded the muzzle velocity I was looking for. The powders there are H335 and W748. Both appear to be the exact same in performance. So, I compared all three powders and various 55, 62 and 69 grain bullets. I kept with the bulk bullets as 1) in IPSC/USPSA/IMGA we shoot A LOT; and 2) in case I need to make an emergency order, I want to be able to find the components quickly from various sources (ya never know when Midway, Powder Valley, Graf's, Wiedener's, et. al. are having a sale). In the end, and I got damn lucky with this, the 69gr. SMK with 25.0 or 25.5 (can't remember but it's in the Sierra manual) was the most accurate and most forgiving in the wind (we shoot in the same stage anything from 3" away to 300 yards away in under 30 seconds, while running through terrain), because what works great at 100 yards may not hit a barn at 200 and 300 yards+. My .5 MOA group is at 100 yards and opens up to about .8 MOA at 300 yards. That's probably more me than the load.

Where I got lucky is that my Dad's plinker load (55gr. Winchester bulk bullet and W748) shoots 0.9 MOA out of the same rifle as my load with only a .3 MOA shift right. So at matches, I'll carry both in the bag. If it's a hoser CQB stage that has shots under say 150 yards, I'll shoot with the 55's. If the stage has any shots beyond that, I shoot all 69's just for a little insurance.

Loading tip on a Dillon. For my pistol reloading (RL1050 only loading .38 Super and a second for only loading .40 S&W), I lightly hit the brass with Hornady One-Shot. Makes the press run happy. For loading .223 on a Dillon (I use a third RL1050 only for .223, my father loads on a 550) put the brass in cardboard tray (see soda case flats), and hit it with Dillon Case Lube liberally. Let dry and load. In all cases, when done, tumble the ammo to get all the lube off and case gauge everything. You don't have to do the latter if it's all your brass (i.e. fired from your gun, but I do it anyways...'cause well, I like being anal).

I know this was long winded and hopefully not too off topic. So, to get it back on topic, chapperjoe, what kind shooting do you plan on doing with it? What range, etc.? In my experience for great accuracy on an AR, it's all in the barrel. You can have everything else perfect, but you cannot make a bad barrel shoot. JP barrels are awesome! After that go with the best. Kreiger, Lilja, et. al.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK
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