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Posted: 12/27/2005 8:08:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 4:05:59 PM EDT by AlCapone]
I have a KAC M4 RAS that I love and I'm having a hard time getting a KAC FF RAS for another project
..
So I started looking at competitiors and have become attached to the Daniel Defence 7.0
BUT I just noticed DD uses a 2 peice system thats WELDED *see pic....

Is DD just as good? or should I continue my Quest for KAC ? thoughts users?

DD7.0 pic
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:19:42 PM EDT
My DD 7.0 puts a smile on my face, I guess I don't understand your concern....
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:36:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
My DD 7.0 puts a smile on my face, I guess I don't understand your concern....



Is a 1 piece rail better than a 2 peice rail?

Also is a DD 7.0 matte "dull" finish or a shiny finish?
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:04:12 PM EDT
I would call mine flat, or satin. Certainly not a gloss. The DD is considered a one piece, and its a matter of opinion which is better. They each have pros and cons.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:29:33 PM EDT
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the KAC FF RAS welded also? I have owned two, but never really cared enough to look. I know several guys that swear by DD rails. DD puts out a top quality rail, no question in my mind that it's the equal to a KAC.

For what it's worth I consider LaRue to be a step above either of them.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:11:46 PM EDT
OK so Larue 7.0 and Daniel Defense 7.0 is what im down to

I will have a gas block under the rail.... i knok Larue makes a gas block yady ya....

what one has the BEST mounting system.... im talking strength and ease of use...

do these uppers require a special wrench to tighten the LARGE ring ?or will a strap wrench do the trick....

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:16:53 PM EDT
LaRue uses a strap wrent to tighten the large ring, then has a anti-spin device which uses two allen screws, which keep the tube from being able to loosen, or spin.

This used to be a potential weakness in the DD rails - not sure if they addressed it. Did they? I havent been able to get my hands on one.

That said, I really like the LaRue rails. You can see a write up on the install on my post:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:39:17 PM EDT
I have owned *at least two* free floated rail systems from ALL 3 companies (KAC, DD, and LaRue).


I have 7 AR's that have rail systems on them......ALL OF THEM WEAR LARUE RAIL SYSTEMS


-LaRue is the only rail system that starts it's life as a billet of aircraft aluminum (no welding)

-LaRue is the only rail system to have an anti-roll device (I had a Daniel Defense rail system that was installed at the factory shoot loose, I'm sold on an anti-roll device)

-All 4 rails on the LaRue are 1913 spec.

-LaRue rail system is CHEAPER than the competition.......Tell me when in modern day America do you get a better product at a cheaper price.


In my eye's it's a no brainer........At great expense to myself, I changed ALL my rail systems over to LaRue Rail Systems (for a reason).


Go LaRue and NEVER look back.......You'll thank me later

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:56:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2005 5:00:05 PM EDT by ian187]

Originally Posted By USMC03:


-LaRue is the only rail system that starts it's life as a billet of aircraft aluminum (no welding)






Wrong, LaRue is two pieces glued together with industrial epoxy.

ETA: The LaRue starts its life as an extrusion and then is milled in two pieces. The two pieces are then epoxied together. The epoxy used is some wicked shit and is not likely to fail but the fact is that they are not a single piece design as most people think.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:12:46 PM EDT
Larue is the way to go and dont look back, my DD has come loose several time
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:21:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 5:32:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kisara:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=254795

tinyurl.com/bbanc



Ohhhhh that was cold!

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 6:12:42 PM EDT
Ok, now someone whow the poor guy(and me!) where to find one in stock! I can't seem to come up with one for my rifle......... Grant doesn't know when he will get more in.....
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:10:59 PM EDT
guess ill use a search next time..

thanks for the lkinks guys that helps alot...

LARUE here I come
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 7:16:00 PM EDT
Go with LaRue.

I just got my first LaRue 9.0 a few weeks ago and I'm now a LaRue convert.

LaRue has the best mounting system because of their anti-spin detail with two allen screws which solves the problem of the tube loosening mostly from our soldiers in the sand box.

Check with Denny of Global Tactical or Wes of MSTN at the Equipment Exchange and Industry forums.

LaRue is in short supply and be prepared for some wait like other good manufacturers currently.

I waited for four weeks for mine which I ordered directly from LaRue website, got a free armadillo bottle opener and a tan hat and it's worth the wait.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:07:03 AM EDT
I think the quality of Larue and DD are the same TOP NOTCH

The Larue is supposed to feel much better in the hand since its narrower, but you will have to use their gas block if you want a gas block under the handguards. There is not a lot of clearance there.

The Larue lock is a MAJOR advantage to a social rifle.

The only advantage to DD is it weighs less. This may be my deciding factor since im out to build a 5.5 lb carbine. It seems to me if you tightened the snot out of a DD and put blue loctite on it, it would stay put.

YMMV, and I am only going on what I have read.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:44:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 3:45:08 AM EDT by ramy98]
so far I am satisfied with my larue 7.0; you should be very satisfied with yours.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 3:47:31 AM EDT
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=261441&page=2

...at the bottom
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:05:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ian187:

Originally Posted By USMC03:


-LaRue is the only rail system that starts it's life as a billet of aircraft aluminum (no welding)






Wrong, LaRue is two pieces glued together with industrial epoxy.

ETA: The LaRue starts its life as an extrusion and then is milled in two pieces. The two pieces are then epoxied together. The epoxy used is some wicked shit and is not likely to fail but the fact is that they are not a single piece design as most people think.






I'm refering to the rail it's self, not the end cap.

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 5:10:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Websniper:
Ok, now someone whow the poor guy(and me!) where to find one in stock! I can't seem to come up with one for my rifle......... Grant doesn't know when he will get more in.....



Get in line behind me buddy!

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:01:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:32:34 PM EDT
all the sudden I want one of those LaRue ones... i can't explain it.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:14:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 6:15:52 PM EDT by WILDBILL756]
I love my LaRue 7.0 on my LMT.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:24:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 6:27:15 PM EDT by remedy]
I've got a Larue 9" now with a Larue low-profile Gas Block and it's being put on my Bushy M4 as I type this. I should get it back tomorrow.

From what I've been told by friends- the new DD rails are coming with a locking device so it cannot come loose around the delta ring area. Personally I just feel that DD is too expensive. I'd rather go with Larue or the Troy MRF-X rail.

ETA: Larue's customer service is top-notch as well. My father bought me the Larue 9" and gas block for christmas but it didn't arrive in time. He called them, spoke with Mark and they overnighted me one for the day after christmas, I think it was Monday or Tuesday. You can't beat that man. They also said they have beefed up the 9" rail production as they ran short filling a government contract.


- rem

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:16:56 PM EDT
My Larue 7.0 is great!
JR
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:20:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:


From what I've been told by friends- the new DD rails are coming with a locking device so it cannot come loose around the delta ring area.

- rem





Where did you hear about this?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:29:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By remedy:


From what I've been told by friends- the new DD rails are coming with a locking device so it cannot come loose around the delta ring area.

- rem





Where did you hear about this?



+1, This is new to me.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:31:00 AM EDT
Hmmm..if DD truely has added something to prevent handguard spin like the Larue, then I'm very interested in the DD rails again because I prefer their profile over the Larue.

I checked DD's site and found this info on their rail systems:

12.0 M4 Free Floating Handguard

The Daniel Defense M4Rail Handguard System was designed around these parameters:

1. Must be free float.
2. Must be light weight and strong.
3. Must be able to quickly dissipate heat.
4. Must feel in the shooters hand like a conventional rifle forearm (Oval not round).
5. Must lock to barrel nut or upper receiver to prevent handguard spin.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:11:55 AM EDT
I love my Daniel Defense 7.0 and would recommend it highly

Other swear by LaRue Tactical and the venerable KAC products.

I think its oneof those "can't go wrong" decisions

A note:
The DD is slightly oval shaped, and is comfortable to use.

shown here (on left) beside the KAC rail

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:16:33 AM EDT
I think the oval thing is kinda odd. I'd rather have the true spec rails on the side because lets face it, if you have a carbine float tube you're going to be using a VFG.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:27:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skyssx:
I think the oval thing is kinda odd. I'd rather have the true spec rails on the side because lets face it, if you have a carbine float tube you're going to be using a VFG.

I've never had a problem with the side rails being shorter so the DD profile doesn't phase me in the least and to state "if you have a carbine float tube, you're going to be using a VFG" is an assumption that is not true in every case. I for one have put my VFGs in the parts box. None of my ARs have them on right now but they all have rail systems. My carbine has a DD whereas my middie and rifle have Larues.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:43:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC03:

Originally Posted By ian187:

Originally Posted By USMC03:


-LaRue is the only rail system that starts it's life as a billet of aircraft aluminum (no welding)






Wrong, LaRue is two pieces glued together with industrial epoxy.

ETA: The LaRue starts its life as an extrusion and then is milled in two pieces. The two pieces are then epoxied together. The epoxy used is some wicked shit and is not likely to fail but the fact is that they are not a single piece design as most people think.






I'm refering to the rail it's self, not the end cap.




The statement is still incorrect. LaRue rails are made from extrusions, not billets, as are DD and KAC. Also, the welds you are refering to on DD and KAC are to secure the tube to the end cap, LaRue glues theirs on.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:49:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skyssx:
I think the oval thing is kinda odd. I'd rather have the true spec rails on the side because lets face it, if you have a carbine float tube you're going to be using a VFG.




No, not everyone uses a VFG. However, I am more interested in your comment about true spec rails.

What is a true spec rail?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:29:24 AM EDT
What I meant by that is the side rails on the DD are shorter. There may be an accessory out there that would need the extra clearance and you couldn't put it on the side. I might be off base here, but I remember people talking about this issue on this board.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:45:21 AM EDT

i voted Larue.

ar-jedi
















Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:37:33 PM EDT
does the locking ring on older DD and KAC have plastic lock rings ? or are those aluminum?

they look to smooth to be aluminium but i may be wrong..
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:53:28 PM EDT

also see this thread:
Daniel Defense loosening

all's well in DD land, it appears.

ar-jedi

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:11:47 PM EDT
KAC and DD are almost identical with the DD being lighter and thinner. The only thing that wont fit on the side rail of a DD is Tango Down vertical grip. If you shoot gansta style this may be an issue for you. The rings are aluminum on both the KAC and DD as well as the Larue. I have had the ring but not the nut vibrate loose on a KAC. It has not happened with the DD.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 12:30:49 PM EDT
How wide of a strap wrench can we use? The one I have is about 1"-1.5" wide (Sears aluminum model)
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