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Posted: 12/24/2005 9:28:11 AM EDT
Ok..so it's decision time. I know I will be making another purchase for the collection between now on Jan. 31st. I am trying to decide on staying within the current collection by adding a top shelf 6.8 upper or diversifying and picking up a JLD HK in .308. I know these are totally different beasts but I've thought over the following:

Price wise, a top shelf 6.8 upper is not significantly cheaper than the JLD rifle

Ammo: No contest there (at least currently) .308 all the way.

Utility: 6.8 has some good performance reviews, but no one can really argue the .308 is a stopper.

"New toy" factor: For me it's a toss up. Never owned.fired either a 6.8 or a JLD HK

So Hive mind. help me out !
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 9:52:17 AM EDT
Why not a DPMS AP4? anyway heard it got great reviews for a .308 rifle, priced around $1100, and lighter than the HK with better ergonomics. Plus has bolt hold open.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 10:21:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 3:47:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:
AR10 without hesitation, for more reasons than I have time to list.




A BIG +1
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:02:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:
AR10 without hesitation, for more reasons than I have time to list.



What he said
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:08:59 PM EDT
You are comparing apples and oranges. The 6.8 is a 'kurz' assault rifle round and the 7.62 is a full power battle rifle round. The 6.8 is basically the 5.56 trajectory but double the energy. The 7.62 is in another class altogether. The 6.8 is particularly well suited to carbines while the 7.62 should be used with a 20"+ bbl to make use of it's potential.

It should be possible to build a 6.8 carbine that would weigh less than 7.5 lbs with a loaded 25 rd mag. A 7.62 rifle is going to need to weigh about 9.5 lbs to keep it from belting the crap out of you. I did have a BM62 equipped with the tricompensator that did an excellent job of taming the recoil. I think those rifles are app 8 lbs loaded. Of course that's about an extra 4 to 6" hung off the end of the bbl.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:47:16 PM EDT
The 6.8spc keeps the weapon the same size and wieght of the comparitive weapon in .223/5.56 so you can have any configuation of AR-15 with nearly 80% of the power and all the range of the .308. You can have a 6.8 that weighs only 5.75 lbs. But most 308's are 8.75 lbs in the lightest carbine version.
Thats just My opinion.
My 6.8 Recce style carbine wieghs in at 7.25lbs with all the accessories lights, EOTECH, front grip and 28 rd Mag. put all that on a 308 and your up to 10lbs+
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:49:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 4:50:10 PM EDT by 02Overlander]

Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:
so you can have any configuation of AR-15 with nearly 80% of the power and all the range of the .308.



Please step away from the crack pipe
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:06:59 PM EDT
You may disagree but that is the truth weather you like it or not
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:09:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 5:10:11 PM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:11:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 02Overlander:

Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:
so you can have any configuation of AR-15 with nearly 80% of the power and all the range of the .308.



Please step away from the crack pipe



Please--- at my age and my profession the only drugs I do are presciption and a little viagra now and then
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:28:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2005 5:29:26 PM EDT by 02Overlander]

Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:

Originally Posted By 02Overlander:

Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:
so you can have any configuation of AR-15 with nearly 80% of the power and all the range of the .308.



Please step away from the crack pipe



Please--- at my age and my profession the only drugs I do are presciption and a little viagra now and then



While that may be the case it doesn't change the fact that your comment was pretty silly.
The 6.8 may be interesting but it is by NO MEANS comparable to the .308
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:29:40 PM EDT
Comparing a G3 clone in 308 and and AR-15 20" in 6.8 and having killed deer with both I would doubt the deer were able to tell the difference. Dead is dead. But the AR is IMHO superior in weight and ergonomics. The 6.8 will shoot inside MOA , the G3 clone will not and then some. The 6.8 would win as a confidence gun , and if I know I can shoot it well, I can shoot it well. Go with what feels right after hands on with both.
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:54:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 02Overlander:

Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:

Originally Posted By 02Overlander:

Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:
so you can have any configuation of AR-15 with nearly 80% of the power and all the range of the .308.



Please step away from the crack pipe



Please--- at my age and my profession the only drugs I do are presciption and a little viagra now and then



While that may be the case it doesn't change the fact that your comment was pretty silly.
The 6.8 may be interesting but it is by NO MEANS comparable to the .308



Hmm? after shooting the 223 & 308 for over thirty years in competition and at Camp Perry I was't aware the .308 was so Magic! MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FREIND!
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:58:19 PM EDT
If public school taught me anything, it's that Diversity is Good.

I vote for the JLD. Everyone I know who owns one loves it, and it'll be a good contrast to your other gear. Heard most owners say that the fit/finish is equal or superior to the genuine HK products, at a fraction of the price.

My only experience with the G3 family was firing some absoultely trashed Iranian Army G3s we confiscated in Ramadi. Despite being shoddy "licensed copies", floating around the black market since the Shah was deposed, and firing 7.62 of unknown origin that we found in a feedsack, I still came away thinking that it's an awesome rifle. Even the collapsible-stock version was surprisingly comfortable, even on FA. It also made a cool "chime" bell-like sound, in contrast to the classic "sproooooing".

6.8 is an interesting idea, as is the Grendel. But I'm not in a hurry to be an early-adopter. I'll wait a few years to see if it has legs. There are a lot of great deals on JLDs to be found with minimal searching; their MSRP is a highly padded estimate.

Diversity, -MV
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 5:58:44 PM EDT
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R223R1*PRC68R4*PRC308WA
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 6:14:00 PM EDT
Allways stick with established military cartridges...

.308 all the way, although I'd go either AR-10 (if you have the money) or FAL (if you don't)...

Who can argue with 200rds (albeit in M60 links) for under $40? Doubt you could get that in 6.8
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 4:18:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CaptSchofield:


Hmm? after shooting the 223 & 308 for over thirty years in competition and at Camp Perry I was't aware the .308 was so Magic! MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FREIND!



Different strokes for different folks. You stated the 6.8 was almost the .308's equal which it is not, just wanted to point that out. Nothing wrong w/ your choice of cartridge (I used to own a 6.5 Grendel) but the 6.8 is not on par w/ the .308 for distance work. I'll take my SR over a 6.8 Recce all day long for long range shooting. Clearing a house I'd prefer something shorter in 6.8. Different tool, different job. YMMV
Merry Christmas
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 4:24:55 AM EDT
the problem/issue is they are two different tools. If your willing to put up with expensive mags, ammo shortage hifh price and want the same platform get 6.8. But remember the AR10 is already available, ammo shortage is not an issue and cheap. If you have neither at this time get the AR10, youell love it.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 5:13:50 AM EDT
Considering the fact that with the power comes the price (in terms of size and weight), I think we'd all agree that the venerable .308 is overkill for certain jobs. So, if you want a 0-200+ yd. upgrade to the 5.56, I believe the 6.8 is a good choice. OTOH, if you need the capabilities of the long-range proven 7.62, then why look at anything less?

Unfortunately, this thread didn't specify the gun's intended use. That makes it almost impossible to do anything other than engage in a pissing contest.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 6:13:34 AM EDT
G3 magazines are many and cost less - $3.00-15.00 - My JLD PTR91 shot toe to toe with the AR-10 yesterday - Not bashing style of 308, just saying it can "hang"...........Well worth the money IMHO
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 7:22:22 AM EDT
You mention utility as a criteria. What are you wanting to do with your new toy? Hunting, if so, what size game? Long range target shooting, if so, out to what ranges?

Also, how much is .308 ammo running these days? Is it really that much cheaper than 6.8?
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 7:26:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:
AR10 without hesitation, for more reasons than I have time to list.



+2.

Actually, I'd prefer an M14, but since this is an AR discussion, I'll go with the AR10.

The DPMS version that takes FAL mags......
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 7:37:23 AM EDT
I'll be the odd one out and say 6.8 (because that is the choice I made).

I went with 6.8 because it gave me the ballistics of the .308, in a 5.56 sized package. Almost every part (exception being the bolt, barrel & magazines) is the same as my 5.56 carbines so I don't have to stock any new parts or tools. Heck even my 5.56 magazines can work as 5 round 6.8 magazines if I really need to.

With 6.8 you have a better choice of stocks (any 5.56 stock will work) and handguards.

Yeah the ammo costs more and is harder to find, but then again I don't plan on shooting my 6.8 as often as the cheaper to feed 5.56 rifles.

In my mind with 6.8 you get the most of the performance of the .308 with the size/weight/recoil of the 5.56.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 10:48:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 10:49:56 AM EDT by Ghostface]

Originally Posted By CK:
G3 magazines are many and cost less - $3.00-15.00 - My JLD PTR91 shot toe to toe with the AR-10 yesterday - Not bashing style of 308, just saying it can "hang"...........Well worth the money IMHO



I had a G3S that shot just as good as my A4 but the trigger, recoil from the hard plastic pad were a bitch. The sights are not as good as an AR. But the nut buster for me was the lack of a BHO. If I could have had a BHO made then I would have kept it. Gs is a damned fine battle rifle!
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 1:05:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AbominableNo-Man:
Originally Posted By bigbore:
AR10 without hesitation, for more reasons than I have time to list.



+2.

Actually, I'd prefer an M14, but since this is an AR discussion, I'll go with the AR10.

The DPMS version that takes FAL mags......[/quote]

Bushmaster BAR-10 used FAL mags...and some are junk. Armalite uses modified M14 mags. DPMS uses Stoner SR25 mags. They were very expensive during the AWB $150 or more. Today, with the AWB dead DPMS and SR25 mags are $35 to 45.

Back to XM15M4Guy's question. I would go with a .308 over a 6.8 because a box of 6.8 cost the same of more than .308. .308 ammo can be found at any gun shop and sporting good department store. There is only one gun store in my area that sells 6.8 and they are having a hard time keeping it in stock.

I have a good friend who bought a 6.8 upper and a new scope for is son to use for deer hunting. He bought the upper in the summer waited several months to find 6.8 ammo. He called several online dealers, gun shops and other ammo dealers and had no luck finding 6.8 ammo for hunting. He found a few boxes of FMJ and it was very expensive.

There is nothing worst than owning a gun, and having trouble finding ammo to feed it.

So I would go for a new .308 rifle for 2006. JLD PTR-91, FAL AR10 or M1a.

The JLD is a good choice. I deer hunt with a factory HK91 and with an upgraded trigger you can shoot MOA or better. On my HK91 I have a Williams SET Trigger, the trigger is very crisp and lets off at 2 pounds.
Also HK mags are now $1 from TAPCO

The DPMS AP4 is a very nice .308 AR. My friend has the 24" DPMS .308 and it shoots MOA.

The last .308 worth looking at IMO is a FAL. I have a DSA FAL 16" and use it for deer hunting also. The FAL is a great weapon, but the HK 91 shoots better.

Chris


Link Posted: 12/27/2005 1:06:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UZI4you:
I have a good friend who bought a 6.8 upper and a new scope for is son to use for deer hunting. He bought the upper in the summer waited several months to find 6.8 ammo. He called several online dealers, gun shops and other ammo dealers and had no luck finding 6.8 ammo for hunting. He found a few boxes of FMJ and it was very expensive.



The ammo situation has changed radically from where it was 6 months ago...
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 1:37:30 PM EDT
I think the price of 6.8 sums it up for me,1.00 a shot is why i got rid of the WSM
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 2:07:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I think the price of 6.8 sums it up for me,1.00 a shot



Silver State is $0.58/shot - much cheaper than the 7mm Mauser I used to shoot.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 2:19:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Allways stick with established military cartridges...

.308 all the way, although I'd go either AR-10 (if you have the money) or FAL (if you don't)...

Who can argue with 200rds (albeit in M60 links) for under $40? Doubt you could get that in 6.8



accualy the 6.8 is now a military cartridge. this is the reply email that I got from remington when I was researching the 6.8 before I bought one.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Jonsie) - 05/20/2005 02:43 PM
Dear Jeffrey;

Thank you for visiting Remington Country! We certainly appreciate you taking the time to write in with your question. We are currently trying to fulfill military contracts. We cannot give an exact date as to when it will be available but we are working hard to get it to the market.

Should you have additional questions, please feel free to contact our Consumer Services Department at 800-243-9700, 9:00 am – 5:00 pm, EST, Monday through Friday.

Customer (Jeffrey Ahrens) - 05/20/2005 02:21 PM
when will there be ammo in 6.8 REM SPC availible in stores? firearms have been availible in this chambering for months, but no one can tell me when I will be able to get ammo for it.

thanx
jeff


Question Reference #050520-000020
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
and while factory ammo from remington is still hard to find, shops like Silver State Armory(200 rds of FMJ for $116) and Precision Crafted Ammunition, have it in stock and you can order as much as you want. As well, it should get alot cheaper if and when it is fully adopted by the military.
true, it dose fall short of the 308, but gives you alot more knockdown power then the 5.56.

Link Posted: 12/28/2005 1:26:49 AM EDT
The 6.8 SPC makes sense for the govt because it will fit into existing lower receivers. If you don't have millions of receivers that will be scrapped if you adopt a new round, 6.8 SPC has nothing to offer you, especially when compared to the 6.5 Grendel. If you are willing to accept the weight penalty of the larger round than go with the 7.62 NATO which is a more capable round. The 6.8 SPC offers nothing over the 7.62 NATO, except that it fits into a 5.56 magwell. The 6.8 SPC is only going to get more obscure. If the military was going to adopt a new round, they would likely spend millions on a major development program like China did as opposed to making an interim-intermediate. The Spec Ops community will likely continue to use the 6.8 SPC on a limited basis but it will never be standard issue in SOCOM, let alone the big Army. As a civilian, its utterly

pointless. Granted, the Mk12 is a cool weapon but impractical to own as ammo is scarce and prohibitively expensive. An AR10 makes much more sense to own as its chambered for a better round and weapons/components are readily availible and affordible. IMO, DPMS makes one of the best AR10's. I particularly like that they use Mk12 type magazines as opposed to modified M14 magazines. Considering that only a few manufactures are producing 6.8 SPC and they likely won't be in three years, buying a weapon chambered in a flavor of the week cartridge isn't the best idea, unless you manufacture your own ammo...Read Cartridges of the World and brush up on all the

hyped up rounds that were popular at the time that you probably have never heard of....7.62 NATO ammo is plentiful and affordible and will be for some time to come. A Mk11 will do everything a Mk12 will do, except better for less money. If you want a 6.something get a 6.5 Grendel. This is an amazing cartridge which looks to have a promising future, at least more so than its contemporary.
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