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Posted: 12/22/2005 7:48:15 PM EDT
I'm flying domestically and want to bring my AR.

How do I bring it with? Can it be checked baggage?

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:51:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:06:28 PM EDT
Thanks.

Pelican Hardcase ok?

What is the procedure or what did you who have traveled with them go through?

Declaration to who, inspection, etc?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:12:02 PM EDT
Pelican with Padlocks is OK

Declare it when you check it, and they'll do the rest.

Make sure the declaration tag is on the inside so no one sees it on the deck and grabs it.

IT DOES NOT HAVE TO HAVE THE DECLARATION ON THE OUTSIDE!

Ask to talk to a manager if someone gives you this "BS".

Tack
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 8:19:20 PM EDT
I'll have a Glock in the same case too.

Is there anything special I need to do with that?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 11:31:05 PM EDT
Nope. It doesn't matter how many firearms you travel with. We do it all the time for 3-Gun matches (rifle, pistol & shotgun). Take 3 firearms, tons of mags for each (tubes for the shotgun). Probably 2 range bags, belts, carriers, vest, hydration equipment, etc. and it's a ton of crap.

Everything on here is correct. Do not let TSA tell you that you have to use one of their "approved" locks either. That's BS. The biggie though is no external identification of a firearm inside the case. That's a no-go.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 11:46:42 PM EDT
<-----Transport Newb,

What about F/A "parts"?

As long as the host gun is in it's Semi legal config., and are lawfully transporting,
can you just throw a RDIAS or LL in your pocket? If designated as a "machinegun",
will they still allow you to carry on?

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 11:53:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By James16688:
I'll have a Glock in the same case too.

Is there anything special I need to do with that?



You can go to each Airlines website and find specific info about checking firearms in with your checked luggage. Some airlines allow different qty's than others and some will not allow more than one per case. Check with your airline. You can also call the customer support desk and they can give you more specific answers. Most airlines do allow up to 11lbs (I think) of ammo to be packed in the gun case with your gun as long as it's in the original fiberboard packaging.

Gene

ps you cannot take your guns through japan.... bastards!!
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 12:47:31 AM EDT
i'm so burnt out on TSA i'd rather fly myself or drive it.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:02:26 AM EDT
While I've flown with firearms in the past... don't think I'd trust it post 9/11. Too many problems of lost, delayed, or damaged luggage on the airlines.

I've seen on more than one occasion several checked firearm cases stacked in the luggage retrieval area of the local airport unattended. Basically anyone could walk up and grab a gun case or two, and be out the door with them. Bet those out of state hunters would have been sad to know no one from the airline was monitoring the situation.

If it was for a 3 gun competition or a paid class instead would UPS the firearms and ammuntion to the destination FFL a few weeks ahead of time. Insure them above 1k so the packages use the more secure UPS tracking method.

Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:07:35 AM EDT
I would also print out the specific airlines regs on their website and take them with you, you may just need them. The assclowns at the desk are oftentimes hoplophobes, and have no clue of the actual regs, so then they will proceed to make up their own regs. "Oh I thought.........."

Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:36:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Eclipse:If it was for a 3 gun competition or a paid class instead would UPS the firearms and ammuntion to the destination FFL a few weeks ahead of time. Insure them above 1k so the packages use the more secure UPS tracking method.


+1

Mail or ship to YOURSELF care of someone at your destination. Perfectly legal per Federal Law.


(B10) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:18:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 7:20:59 AM EDT by FredMan]

Originally Posted By uscbigdawg1:
... Do not let TSA tell you that you have to use one of their "approved" locks either. That's BS. The biggie though is no external identification of a firearm inside the case. That's a no-go.



Not only is the TSA lock BS, it's also illegal. The only person allowed to have the key (or know the combination) to the locks securing the firearm in the case is the owner. I recommend requiring to be present when they search the bag and confirming the relocking.

ETA: I've never had a gun lost or stolen while flying but I did find my case stacked outside the baggage office, unattended, for hours when my flight got screwed up one time.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:05:11 PM EDT
what about transporting ammo?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:14:25 PM EDT
Read and be familiar with BOTH the airline's rules as well as TSA's rules (www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1666.xml)

TSAs rules can not be waived. Per their instructions, firearms must be in checked baggage, and in a locked hard sided case within said baggage.

Print out at least two copies of each set of rules. Keep one copy of each (the airline's and TSA's policies) in your checked baggage, and keep one copy of each on your person. I suspect your airline will be more familiar with firearm policies rather than TSA (that was my case two weeks ago). You'll probably need to show them their own rules.

BTW - TSA is treating firearm parts the same as a firearm. If you are bringing multiple uppers, make sure they are all in a locked plastic case within your checked baggage.

If you are going somewhere where you can readily purchase ammunition, buy it at your destination. It'll save you weight AND extra hassle. It's much easier when there is no ammunition with your firearms.

It wouldn't hurt to call the airline and see if there is anything additional you must do prior to your trip.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 3:16:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
<-----Transport Newb,

What about F/A "parts"?

As long as the host gun is in it's Semi legal config., and are lawfully transporting,
can you just throw a RDIAS or LL in your pocket? If designated as a "machinegun",
will they still allow you to carry on?




Are you serious? Or just being a ?

Per TSA (www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1666.xml) firearm parts must be in checked baggage.

Link Posted: 12/28/2005 10:22:39 PM EDT
Flying with firearms is way too easy. Just be smart about it and you'll be fine.

Does the firearm have to be assembled? No.
Ammo with weapon? No.
Weapon in locked case? Yes.
TSA Approved Lock? According to TSA...yes. Reality...No.
Exterior tags on luggage containing firearms? No.
F/A Parts in luggage/assembled partial or fully with firearm okay? Yes.

Do not over complicate flying with guns. It isn't that big a deal.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 10:39:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By uscbigdawg1:
Flying with firearms is way too easy. Just be smart about it and you'll be fine.

Does the firearm have to be assembled? No.
Ammo with weapon? No.
Weapon in locked case? Yes.
TSA Approved Lock? According to TSA...yes. Reality...No.
Exterior tags on luggage containing firearms? No.
F/A Parts in luggage/assembled partial or fully with firearm okay? Yes.

Do not over complicate flying with guns. It isn't that big a deal.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK



Actually, yes. You can ship ammo with your weapon. It must be packaged in the original manuf. fiber board box. Most airlines will allow up 11 lbs. Check with your airline as each airline may differ.

Gene
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:17:12 AM EDT
Sorry for the lack of clarity. By "No," I meant that the ammo shouldn't be in the same case as the firearm. But then I'm usually flying with WAY more ammo than I'm allowed to anyways and it's never factory.

In the matches and classes that I've flown too, and having flown literally every domestic airline with my firearms, every one wants the ammunition to be packaged seperately from the firearm. Makes sense. As for original boxes...it doesn't have to be. For the most part, they either do not look for the ammo (I only got it looked at once about 4 years ago) or don't care where the ammo is (or how much you're carrying) so long as it's not WITH the firearm. FWIW, Southwest Airlines is THE BEST!!! They know what to look for when clearing your firearm, know where to look and generally don't get too freaked out when an IMGA/USPSA 3-Gun Open Division shooter breaks out all the big toys!

Again, flying with firearms is not that big a deal. The biggest difference in our "Post-9/11" BS world is that you'll have TSA typically do an additional check on that bag. Not a big deal. I demand that I be physically present while they conduct all their searches. Do your homework though on their regulations and the rules of your airline. Two things to keep in mind. One, the airlines own that plane and THEY say what goes on and what doesn't...not TSA. Second, just because we're in a "Post-9/11" world does not mean we have lost our rights to illegal searches and proper protection of our property, so watch them 'cause they do steal and remember YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE ONE OF THEIR LOCKS!

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROk
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:29:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 2:31:52 AM EDT by JustinOK34]

Originally Posted By uscbigdawg1:
Sorry for the lack of clarity. By "No," I meant that the ammo shouldn't be in the same case as the firearm. But then I'm usually flying with WAY more ammo than I'm allowed to anyways and it's never factory.

In the matches and classes that I've flown too, and having flown literally every domestic airline with my firearms, every one wants the ammunition to be packaged seperately from the firearm. Makes sense. As for original boxes...it doesn't have to be. For the most part, they either do not look for the ammo (I only got it looked at once about 4 years ago) or don't care where the ammo is (or how much you're carrying) so long as it's not WITH the firearm. FWIW, Southwest Airlines is THE BEST!!! They know what to look for when clearing your firearm, know where to look and generally don't get too freaked out when an IMGA/USPSA 3-Gun Open Division shooter breaks out all the big toys!

Again, flying with firearms is not that big a deal. The biggest difference in our "Post-9/11" BS world is that you'll have TSA typically do an additional check on that bag. Not a big deal. I demand that I be physically present while they conduct all their searches. Do your homework though on their regulations and the rules of your airline. Two things to keep in mind. One, the airlines own that plane and THEY say what goes on and what doesn't...not TSA. Second, just because we're in a "Post-9/11" world does not mean we have lost our rights to illegal searches and proper protection of our property, so watch them 'cause they do steal and remember YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE ONE OF THEIR LOCKS!

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROk



This is per TSA's "policies" that are on their link on my above post:


It is preferred that the passenger provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the screener must open the container, the TSA and/or airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact the passenger. If this is unsuccessful, the container will not be placed on the plane since unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) are not permitted on aircraft due to Federal regulations.


You shouldn't "demand" something that you are supposed to do.

Edit -

From your first post:


F/A Parts in luggage/assembled partial or fully with firearm okay? Yes.


Put those parts in your checked baggage, and in a locked, plastic case
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:24:13 AM EDT
No, I wasn't trolling, I just wouldn't be comfortable leaving a $10,000 item at the mercy
of the luggage monkeys...I'd rather keep it on me.

I was just curious if an RDIAS or RLL still counts as a firearm in the eyes of the TSA
(i.e. NO carry-on)
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:07:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Eclipse:
If it was for a 3 gun competition or a paid class instead would UPS the firearms and ammuntion to the destination FFL a few weeks ahead of time. Insure them above 1k so the packages use the more secure UPS tracking method.


That may or may not work. I tried shipping a semi-AK underfolder to myself once through USPS. Fortunately, I shipped it a week before leaving because it was returned. The reasoning was that USPS does not ship "machine guns" (their words). I picked it up and later that day got a call from the local ATF office about it. I explained what I was doing (shipping a semi-auto to myself) and the agent said that was just fine.

I finally just brought the gun on the airplane as checked luggage. No problems.

I find that about half the time I have to pick up my gun case from the luggage office at the destination end. That is just fine, as it is less likely that someone pick up my case and walk off with it.

I also find that it helps to buy $10 worth of added insurance. Not that that may cover the replacement cost of the guns (my homeowners insurance covers that), but the case seems to be looked after a bit more closely.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:11:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
No, I wasn't trolling, I just wouldn't be comfortable leaving a $10,000 item at the mercy
of the luggage monkeys...I'd rather keep it on me.

I was just curious if an RDIAS or RLL still counts as a firearm in the eyes of the TSA
(i.e. NO carry-on)


no gun parts on your person/carry on. period
not even a "dummy round" on a key chain.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:14:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GENESMITH:

Originally Posted By uscbigdawg1:
Flying with firearms is way too easy. Just be smart about it and you'll be fine.

Does the firearm have to be assembled? No.
Ammo with weapon? No.
Weapon in locked case? Yes.
TSA Approved Lock? According to TSA...yes. Reality...No.
Exterior tags on luggage containing firearms? No.
F/A Parts in luggage/assembled partial or fully with firearm okay? Yes.

Do not over complicate flying with guns. It isn't that big a deal.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK



Actually, yes. You can ship ammo with your weapon. It must be packaged in the original manuf. fiber board box. Most airlines will allow up 11 lbs. Check with your airline as each airline may differ.

Gene



+1
show up.
declare weapons at ticket counter
show agent that there is no ammo
fill out firarms in baggage form
place form in case
take case to tsa
tsa inspects - hands you back key
get on plane
recover case at destination
that's it.

11 Lbs ammo allowed in original factory package in check baggage

NO GUN PARTS ON YOUR PERSON OR CARRY ON BAG. PERIOD!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:25:46 AM EDT
You can place the locked gun case within another suit case once it is checked so that it does not look like you have a gun to the baggage handlers. This is a little hard with a long gun, but not a pistol or possibly an AR.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:36:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Eclipse:
While I've flown with firearms in the past... don't think I'd trust it post 9/11. Too many problems of lost, delayed, or damaged luggage on the airlines.

I've seen on more than one occasion several checked firearm cases stacked in the luggage retrieval area of the local airport unattended. Basically anyone could walk up and grab a gun case or two, and be out the door with them. Bet those out of state hunters would have been sad to know no one from the airline was monitoring the situation.

If it was for a 3 gun competition or a paid class instead would UPS the firearms and ammuntion to the destination FFL a few weeks ahead of time. Insure them above 1k so the packages use the more secure UPS tracking method.


Lets just say I worked for a certain airline at a certain airport,and that certain employees at certain airport were putting certain objects into a certain blue dumpster. They got greedy,grabbing certain objects,that the owners of these certain objects(camcorders,boxes that resemble a dairy cow,firearms,fishing poles,bicycles,ect....)that the po po at the certain airport,put a watch on that certain blue dumpster(parked next to the fence). Certain individuals for that certain airline were caught,which led to a search of a storage unit near that certain airport. Certain airline did a hush-hush deal on this,as certainly the publicity would have been real bad.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:47:50 AM EDT
Are you "certain" this happened? j/k My buddy shipped a ruger 45 from lax to seetac. when he got there the gun was gone. the airline said they were only going to pay him half. so, since he bought the plane tickets with his credit card and they have baggage protection from the credit card compay he filed a claim with them as well and they said that he was only going to get half. so he said "ok, well I had 2 pistols in the box", and they ended up paying him back enough to get another pistol, and then before the airline could pay him for his claim, they called him and told him they found his gun. so now he has two. course that was illeagle.......
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:10:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GENESMITH:
Are you "certain" this happened? j/k My buddy shipped a ruger 45 from lax to seetac. when he got there the gun was gone. the airline said they were only going to pay him half. so, since he bought the plane tickets with his credit card and they have baggage protection from the credit card compay he filed a claim with them as well and they said that he was only going to get half. so he said "ok, well I had 2 pistols in the box", and they ended up paying him back enough to get another pistol, and then before the airline could pay him for his claim, they called him and told him they found his gun. so now he has two. course that was illeagle.......

Yep,some of the folks involved even showed up at a very big party we had,some things were later found missing. The reason this was kept hush-hush was because the certain airline was in the midst of building a hub at this airport. BTW,they did get prosecuted. And I remember the dumpster,it was in a perfect position to drive a bag cart by(they put or hid the firearms inside the long garment boxes)right upside the fence,next to the terminal.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:38:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MattyMattel:

Originally Posted By GENESMITH:
Are you "certain" this happened? j/k My buddy shipped a ruger 45 from lax to seetac. when he got there the gun was gone. the airline said they were only going to pay him half. so, since he bought the plane tickets with his credit card and they have baggage protection from the credit card compay he filed a claim with them as well and they said that he was only going to get half. so he said "ok, well I had 2 pistols in the box", and they ended up paying him back enough to get another pistol, and then before the airline could pay him for his claim, they called him and told him they found his gun. so now he has two. course that was illeagle.......

Yep,some of the folks involved even showed up at a very big party we had,some things were later found missing. The reason this was kept hush-hush was because the certain airline was in the midst of building a hub at this airport. BTW,they did get prosecuted. And I remember the dumpster,it was in a perfect position to drive a bag cart by(they put or hid the firearms inside the long garment boxes)right upside the fence,next to the terminal.


you know, there are always shit heads in every company.
It is a shame that we have to deal with people like that. makes the whole industry look bad.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:48:04 PM EDT
hello all, im new to the boards... i just wanted to add somthing to this post.

for those of u that ship yer guns via UPS, i traveled with a steyr scout about 4 years ago, had some decent leupold optics on it. and i made it to my destination, my rifle did not. UPS just flat out told me it was stolen, no "umm sir, we lost it". i called their CS number and was told it was stolen. granted they compensated me, but not before a long drawn out battle over 1200 dollars verse the 3 grand i had spent on it, the optics and a pelican case.

they did pay me the 3 grand but only after i produced receipts(which i had to have my local gun dealer at the time dig out of his records) as i lost mine(stupid on my part)

im not saying that its the norm, but i would be weary.


on a side note, i just got back on a trip to washington state last week and the airline lost my girlfriends and my bags.... so, roll the dice i guess.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 8:15:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CSeaBass:
on a side note, i just got back on a trip to washington state last week and the airline lost my girlfriends and my bags.... so, roll the dice i guess.




The airline lost your girlfriends?!?





­

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 9:08:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By Eclipse:If it was for a 3 gun competition or a paid class instead would UPS the firearms and ammuntion to the destination FFL a few weeks ahead of time. Insure them above 1k so the packages use the more secure UPS tracking method.


+1

Mail or ship to YOURSELF care of someone at your destination. Perfectly legal per Federal Law.


(B10) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.




Yep...You don't need to get an FFL holder involved.

Tack
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:18:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 10:19:14 PM EDT by CSeaBass]

Originally Posted By MurdockTheCrazy:

Originally Posted By CSeaBass:
on a side note, i just got back on a trip to washington state last week and the airline lost my girlfriends and my bags.... so, roll the dice i guess.




The airline lost your girlfriends?!? hock.gif


hr


hehehe i always pack a spare girlfriend
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:46:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 11:10:42 PM EDT by ElCamino]
I had my bag delayed on Monday and then delivered to the wrong person. The only reason I ever saw my bag again was because that person was nice enough to call me. The airline had no idea where my bag was, as they never entered it in their system, and had no explanation other than they "weren't paying attention" when they sent the bag out for delivery. They never contacted me in any way to let me know or confirm the delivery, either. They actually put a tag on my bag with this other guy's name on it RIGHT BESIDE the big white paper strap with my name on it.

Needless to say, if you don't mind the possibility of having some random person having your AR delivered to their doorstep, by all means, check it.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 3:45:03 AM EDT
So, all of the sudden my unit finds itself shipping teams and weapons out all over the place. Commercial air. Now we have our big M-16 cases that hold 6 rifles, but thats a no go on commercial. The only other cases we have are the $20 Doskocil specials we use for our FATS guns.

Well that'll have to do. Only since Im luggin the '60, we have to remove all the padding for it to fit. We have no problems going over. Coming home, well our cases took a serious beating. They are warped, locks are busted, etc. etc. So we have them steel banded before leaving Bahrain. No problems until Atlanta. Even with orders, counter chick wants to open the cases. This means cutting the bands, and maybe one of the cases still closes and locks properly. Im first at the counter, got my Pig, and she wants me to open it up, show her its empty, and put the declaration tag in the case.

Fights on. She cuts this band, I dont go home, cause the case is totally fucked. So I tell her, this aint daddy's shotgun in here, its a machine gun. Do you know how to tell that an M-60 is unloaded. Um no, but I have to check. Im not opening this case. Get your Supervisor.

Behind me are the rest of my team with 16's 9's Saws, and 203's. And an assload of civilians. We keep arguing. Supervisor shows up, and we argue some more. Finally, they relent, and allow us to leave them closed as long as they can put the tag in. No Prob, the cases are so warped that each one has a gap somewhere.

45 minutes of this shit, and at one point I asked for some cops, not security guards, but Atlanta P.D. presence if I had to remove the Pig and prove it empty. Then I wanted said cops to escort guns to the plane (bluffed my ass off, once we cut the bands, we werent leaving without locking cases) and I think that is what finally got them to compromise.

20 minutes later I run into another group heading home to Ohio. They lost their argument and had their two SAW guys open the case, (unit build to hold two SAWs). People shit! Counter folks freaked, and that is the only case they had to open.

Point is, be prepared for a hassle, but if you've done your homework, you'll be fine.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 4:11:25 AM EDT
you know, it is a federal requirement for the agents to check to see if there is ammo in the case.
it is also airline policy.

do you want to know how many times I hold/detain cargo for hidden dangerous goods?
want to know how many times I call the FAA/TSA for violations? what to know how many flights are delayed because of a "vibrating" bag? Did you know that "151" rum is considered a hazard in luggage?

The agents are trained to look for hazards, they are not trained in clearing weapons. they don't have a clue to what a pig is or a saw or a m240. they are trained to look for "triggers" and ask questions. If they do not look or ask they are written up. They are the first line of defense in airline safety. Once the bag passes them it goes through the TSA and if the TSA catch anything the agent is in trouble.

So before you travel again with your pig or saw or m240 or m16s read the airlines policy on checking firearms. They need to check for undeclared ammo. regardless of who you are. Since I was in the service I KNOW there are "some" yahoos who will try to sneak ammo through. Shit I did it myself in 1985. Not knowing at the time, I brought home a live 25mm round, a smoke, and a grenade simulator. big time no-no today. But that is why they ask and look.

If your unit has questions, ask the airline before you show up. or ask me. I got 17 years in cargo shipping. I'll give you all the information you need so you don't get hassled at the counter.

It is funny, I ship my ARs all the time, since I now what is required, I spend a total of 5 minutes at the counter. No hassle, no fuss, no stupid looks, no nothing.

thanks for your service, stay safe and fly safe.

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