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Posted: 12/22/2005 3:20:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 6:59:20 PM EDT by Spectre1]
Imagine if you will, that you are considering a couple of builds and want good quality that doesn't break the bank, which lower receiver you you use and why? Are there better choices at this price point? One will be a pistol and the other may be a pistol or a carbine, haven't decided yet. I don't have a DIAS, nor do I plan on getting one, so a high self doesn't bother me. I am concerned about some of the things I have read about RRA stuff being out of spec, and I do like CMT/Stag products. Just wanting to hear the opinions of others as all of my AR's are Bushmasters. I can get two Stags for the price of 1 Bushy stripped lower, so, yeah, I'm looking hard at alternatives to BM.

Thanks in advance for the input and experience.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:28:12 PM EDT
Stag, and Mega are great. They run about $90 stripped.

RRA is great. Runs about $105 stripped.

They are all about the same quality. Depends on what you want to spend.

I am now a big fan of Mega. They have been great to me.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:42:38 PM EDT
Stag lowers are great. I would use them if the deer head didn't bother me so much. I spend the extra $15 for the RRA just because of the logo.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:51:12 PM EDT
Posted this on another thread, but it may be helpful here:


Just my .02........

My first AR platform was an M16A2 that I carried as an Infantry Rifleman / Security Forces Marine while in the USMC. I often find myself comparing the quality of civilan AR15's to the quality that I came accustom to on the Colt M16A2.

In my opinion DPMS and Olympic are junk (owned both, and during the numerous Tactical Carbine courses I have attended over the years DPMS, Olympic, Modle 1 Sales, home brews, parts guns, and other tier III manufacturers guns tend to go tits up at a MUCH high rate than quality manufacturers). I have owned several Eagle and Armalite AR's and none of them have impressed me.

For the last decade I have been a Bushmaster type of guy. That being said I currently don't recommend them. Over the last 12 years I have owned 20 to 30 Bushmasters. What I have noticed with Bushmaster is when the demand for their guns are high, their quality really suffers. I really noticed this pre and post Y2K and pre and post Assault Weapons Ban Sunset. In the last 18 months I have purchased 4 Bushmasters. All 4 had to go back to the factory for different quality control / reliability issues. Some of them even had to back to the factory more than once.

I have seen some problems with LMT (uppers not true, etc), not many, but enough for "me" not to purchase from LMT.


Currently I recommend and use Stag Arms (aka CMT), Rock River Arms, and Colt. I would give a definate edge to Stag (CMT) due to the price and features (mil spec buffer tube, covered firing pin on bolt carrier, etc). I recently purchased 2 Stag guns, and the upper to lower fit is superior to any other gun I have on hand (Colt LE6920's, Rock River Arms, Bushmasters, etc)


Here is a post I wrote on another thread on another forum in reference to Stag Arms:



Just my opinion, but during Patrol Rifle classes, SWAT Carbine classes, Carbine classes that I attend, and Tactical Carbine classes that I help instruct, I see more problems with guns that have parts made from several manufacturers.

In a recent carbine class one guy had a complete Olympic lower with a complete Colt lower and another guy that had a complete Bushmaster lower and a complete DPMS upper. Both guys had trouble with their guns. All the factory complete guns were running fine.


Here is a quote from a student who had a gun with a different upper and lower come to a Tactical Carbine class and his gun went tit's up:

"This rifle had previously been part of some sick frankenblaster, and after some bad experiences with it at a Tactical Response Carbine Course, and some sage advise by our own Jeff Carpenter, it has been restored to its core factory components. "

See the entire thread here: getoffthex.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/182106881/m/396100896

I just wrote this for a friend who live here in Colorado and had planned on getting a Colt LE6920 once he got back from Iraq:


I've got 3 Colt LE6920's and I paid around $950 each for plus $100 to have Ken Elmore at S.A.W. do his reliablity upgrade on a each gun.

CMT is Contentinal Machine and Tool (not to be confused with LMT Lewis Machine and Tool). CMT and Stag Arms are the SAME COMPANY. CMT / Stag is the sub-contractor who makes Colt's uppers, lowers, etc, and they also make the same parts for Rock River Arms.

I had heard a lot of good things about CMT / Stag and have had the chance to check out quite a few of their guns recently. I am very impressed with the fit, finish, qulaity, and features on the Stag Arms guns.

When comparing my Colt LE6920's to factory Stag Arms M4's here are the only difference I noted:

-Stag has a 1/9" twist barrel, the Colt a 1/7" (but both have the Colt M4 feed ramps). Barrel twist is a non issue as most of us shoot 55 grain to 62 grain ammo 99% of the time.

-The Stag finish was about 1 shade darker, you had to look had at both and be in direct sunlight to tell the difference.

-The Stag has a Colt mil-spec buffer tube, but has 6 positions instead of the 4 on the Colt buffer tube....Because Stag makes Colt's buffer tubes, they are the same spec....Both Vltor and LMT SOPMOD stocks will fit perfectly on the Stag tube.

-The Stag handguard only had 1 heat shiled.

-The Stag has a M16 style bolt carrier that covers the firing pin. The Colt has Colt's nuetered bolt carrier group. I prefer Stag's bolt carrier group.

If you got to www.stagarms.com they only offer 3 different carbines and 1 20" flat top AR15A3. On Stag's website the guns start off at $900 and go up. NONE of Stag's dealers (that I could find) carry COMPLETE Rifle / Carbines. BUT many of the dealers carry COMPLETE UPPERS and COMPLETE LOWERS (you just have to put the upper on the lower and close the pins).

www.eaglefirearms.net in Brighton, CO. carries the COMPLETE Carbine lower for $215 and the COMPLETE M4 upper (no carry handle) for $429. That is $644 (plus tax, shipping, and transfer fee....still under $700) for a COMPLETE M4 carbine, that is pretty much the same thing as the Colt LE6920. Excluding tax, shipping, transfer fee, you can buy 2 Stag M4's for the price of the average LE6920 (average civilian price on a Colt 6920 is $1250 to $1350).

I just bought 2 complete Stag Carbine's (minus the barrel). I'm putting Rock River Arms mid-length barrels (custom countoured for me by ADCO Firearms) on both guns.

The way I understand it is, CMT has been in buisness as a sub-contractor for well known quality AR15 manufacturers for quite some time (Colt and Rock River Arms). In 2003 CMT came out with a "retail" line of their own and named it "Stag Arms". Don't quote me on this but from what I was told some time ago, it's a father / son team. Dad runs CMT while son runs Stag Arms.


You can NOT beat the quality or the price. A COMPLETE M4 carbine for $644 ...... you can't even build a piece of shit parts gun for that.....It's a NO BRAINER.....there should be NO REASON for me to see another DMPS Upper / Colt lower, or Colt Upper / Olympic Lower, or Model 1 Sales Upper / Bushmaster Lower, or just a parts gun in general at a class ever again!!!

Good luck

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:55:44 PM EDT
I for one enjoy the deer logo - it makes me happy, giddy, and feel all tactical inside.

I'm a proud Stag owner.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:57:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:01:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC03:

-The Stag has a M16 style bolt carrier that covers the firing pin. The Colt has Colt's nuetered bolt carrier group. I prefer Stag's bolt carrier group.



FYI,

The newer Colts have the M-16 carrier. Mine has one and I love the extra metal.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:04:20 PM EDT
Sup. Arms blems $75 I got mine today, it's very nice and went together quickly and without problems.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:06:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
I for one enjoy the deer logo - it makes me happy, giddy, and feel all tactical inside.

I'm a proud Stag owner.



X-3

Good stuff.

Honest. Built 10 at 1 time, 3 are mine.

Danny

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:08:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
teknic, a dealer here, may sell Stag uppers for less than Eagle (and Eagle is tough to beat price wise on most things) Teknic said he would match Aim Surplus' price, which I think was lower than Eagle's for the upper with Arms flip up site.



Does teknic sell lowers and does he have a website?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:16:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spectre1:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
teknic, a dealer here, may sell Stag uppers for less than Eagle (and Eagle is tough to beat price wise on most things) Teknic said he would match Aim Surplus' price, which I think was lower than Eagle's for the upper with Arms flip up site.



Does teknic sell lowers and does he have a website?



Here

Check him out.

Danny
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:22:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 11:42:10 PM EDT by Spectre1]
Thanks for the link, but I didn't find CMT/Stag lowers...

Does anyone know if anyone sells CMT marked lowers, or are they just all deer heads? Isn't Denny getting some Global Tactical marked ones made?
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:39:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spectre1:

Does anyone know if anyone sells CMY marked lowers, or are the just all deer heads? Isn't Denny getting some Global Tactical marked ones made?



Yes, Denny will have GT marked CMT, and there is also NOVESKE which are suppose to be CMT built as well. I believe the CMT marked lowers were only made briefly and are no longer made as all of theirs are now Stag. someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:56:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ipsilateral_7:

Originally Posted By Spectre1:

Does anyone know if anyone sells CMY marked lowers, or are the just all deer heads? Isn't Denny getting some Global Tactical marked ones made?



Yes, Denny will have GT marked CMT, and there is also NOVESKE which are suppose to be CMT built as well. I believe the CMT marked lowers were only made briefly and are no longer made as all of theirs are now Stag. someone correct me if I'm wrong.



i havent seen a CMT lower in a while....
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 6:58:33 PM EDT
Looks like CMT/Stag is the way to go then...
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 5:20:00 AM EDT
I'm picking up two stripped Stag lowers today
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 8:58:52 PM EDT
I'm gonna get some from EF. Chris said they'd be back in stock after the 1st of the year! Thanks for the help guys, but I guess it was a no brainer...
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 9:10:14 PM EDT
Stag arms makes a great lower. The overall fit and finish is outstanding. It's funny that they are the cheapest lowers out there but one of the BEST!
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 12:10:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 1:56:58 PM EDT
Great googly moogly! Those look great Denny! Thanks for the info!
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