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Posted: 12/17/2005 12:51:18 PM EDT
I see lots of AR-15 manufacturers praised here, but rarely is DPMS mentioned.

I ask questions and BM, Armalite, Stag, RRA, Colt, and a few others always come up, but rarely does anyone mention DPMS.

Any reason for this? Just curious.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 12:57:05 PM EDT
I've noticed this also, though my DPMS is my "beater", I enjoy shooting it. Accuracy and reliability compared to my Bushmaser is comperable, though the fit and finish of the DPMS doesn't match the Bushmaster. Find one at a good price, and enjoy it.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 1:01:07 PM EDT
Well I personally own one, and like it. You should get a cheaper price on one vs a Bushmaster, Colt, RRA, or Armalite. That doesn't mean its a bad thing.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 1:02:51 PM EDT
I think they are "okay"----some folks really like them, others don't. DPMS certainly isn't one of the "majors", like Bushmaster or Colt; the other thing that hurts their reputation is that they aren't/have never been a USGI supplier/subcontractor. Then too, for example, DPMS barrels are not milspec----4140 steel, not 4150, and it seemed that they were really late in the 'game' coming up with chrome-lined barrels----those are the type of things that result in their reputation being less than stellar.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 1:31:16 PM EDT
They have a bad reputation for reliability in my LE area.

I know several LEOs that wanted to save $150, so they bought DPMS.

All 4 LEOs that I know have had nothing but problems with their DPMS M4 rifles.

Two rifle are currently being sent back for inspection due to the severe problems.

The other two rifles are not even shoot anymore, after being only 2 years old.

All 4 LEOs stated they wished that they had now spent the extra money and bought a better rifle.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 1:48:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LPD111:
They have a bad reputation for reliability in my LE area.

I know several LEOs that wanted to save $150, so they bought DPMS.

All 4 LEOs that I know have had nothing but problems with their DPMS M4 rifles.

Two rifle are currently being sent back for inspection due to the severe problems.

The other two rifles are not even shoot anymore, after being only 2 years old.

All 4 LEOs stated they wished that they had now spent the extra money and bought a better rifle.



Yeah well I am sure the DPMS will stand by their product so all those LEOs have to worry about is when their rifles will be back from the factory.

I had a friend who had a problem with a DPMS LR .308. He contacted DPMS about his problem and they asked for his FFL to ship the rifle to their factory in St. Cloud MN. DPMS had the rifle fixed and returned with extra mags, and promotional grear the next week. So if your LEO friends are having problems with their rifles and two of them are not being used then they should only blame themselves for not contacting DPMS to get the rifles fixed.

I own DPMS rifles and I am just as happy with them as my Colts. DPMS gets a bad rep around here for the most part because when people hear DPMS the think about the cast rifles that were made over 10 years ago. And because DPMS rifles are less expensive than Bushmaster and Colt people think they are junk.

Well the only junk AR15 is made my Vulcan or Hesse...same thing.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 1:55:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChairborneRanger: for example, DPMS barrels are not milspec----4140 steel, not 4150,

For anything other than FA, the difference is non-existent between the two alloys. More Kool Aid, I guess......
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 2:07:12 PM EDT
DPMS makes excellent rifles and parts, I've used them exclusively for several builds and have had ZERO problems.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 3:12:57 PM EDT
I own 3 DPMS , And I will continue to buy from them ! I Put them right next to my Colt's in the Safe, With Pride ! Great Rifles Fit & Finish !
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 3:34:13 PM EDT
I have one DPMS Lower and 3 LPKs in the safe right now...ZERO problems, and in the past I have had ZERO problems with DPMS...

Unlike my recent foray into Bushmaster...
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 5:41:09 PM EDT
I don't know about their M4 and chrome lined rifles but my Panther Bull 24 Special is a real shooter. I have never had a single malfunction with it. I would happily buy another DPMS if I found the right deal.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 5:49:12 PM EDT
I had a cast one awhile back and never had any problems with it.I'd buy one in a heartbeat again.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:07:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 6:09:27 PM EDT by Real_estate_salesman]

Originally Posted By LPD111:
They have a bad reputation for reliability in my LE area.

I know several LEOs that wanted to save $150, so they bought DPMS.

All 4 LEOs that I know have had nothing but problems with their DPMS M4 rifles.

Two rifle are currently being sent back for inspection due to the severe problems.

The other two rifles are not even shoot anymore, after being only 2 years old.

All 4 LEOs stated they wished that they had now spent the extra money and bought a better rifle.


What in Gods name could be wrong enough to take the entire firearm out of service?
An AR15 is just made up of a series of "groups", ie., fire control group, bolt group, buffer and tube, upper, gas tube, barrel.
If he can't fix it, perhaps it is broken because he didn't know how to maintain it?

ETA: I'm waiting for my new DPMS M4 upper to get here in the mail. I've used LPKs and other small items from DPMS without problems.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:28:18 PM EDT
DPMS varmit upper 24'' S.S. barrel on my franken rifle. Finish is fine, reliability is fine. Sub MOA all day long.
Probably the most accurate rifle I've ever owned.
YMMV.

I think a lot of people talk out of thier ass, cause that's were their heads are.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:44:33 PM EDT
DPMS ROCKS!

I have used their lowers, lower parts kits and complete weapons.

They are just a good as any of the "big three".

Better prices too.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:57:57 PM EDT
I have put 1000s of rounds downrange with DPMS rifles, function has been 100%. Fit and finish was much better than the last Bushy I bought.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 7:03:21 PM EDT
I ordered a dpms lower parts kit a while back. The parts were not black...they were more like a cosmoline color. The quality was bad. There was no notch in the safety selector. There was a small pit of missing metal on the bolt catch. I would not recommend them.

erik
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 7:05:42 PM EDT
I have a DPMS lower ... looks good .. and works fine ...
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 5:55:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 6:04:56 PM EDT by terrydavis]
I have sold, assembled and worked on many hundreds of DPMS's. I have had fewer problems with them than any other brand. I think they are the best looking AR from the factory. They will shoot with any of the other brands. Some of the problems I have had are some lower parts have come out a different color. This happens when the parts are parkerized in different batches. I have one upper returned because of a buldged barrel. I highly suspected that it was user error. DPMS replaced it with no questions. I have had a very very few customers comment about them being finicky about ammo. I have not experienced this problem myself. DPMS does include an insert telling you what ammo not to use. I have heard rumors that when other vendors run out of parts they contact DPMS. If that is true, it is a comment on the quality of DPMS parts or how desperate other manufactures need parts. When I sell a rifle or part I emphasize that I stand behind what I sell. I ask that once the customer uses the product that he gives me feedback. Overwhelmingly the comments are positive. I am not saying DPMS is perfect, but in my considerable experience, they come close. Oh and their plastic magazines were crap.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:03:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 6:05:16 PM EDT by chp5]

Originally Posted By LPD111:
They have a bad reputation for reliability in my LE area.

I know several LEOs that wanted to save $150, so they bought DPMS.

All 4 LEOs that I know have had nothing but problems with their DPMS M4 rifles.

Two rifle are currently being sent back for inspection due to the severe problems.

The other two rifles are not even shoot anymore, after being only 2 years old.

All 4 LEOs stated they wished that they had now spent the extra money and bought a better rifle.



I recently shot the Ft. Benning Three Gun Challenge Match. I met the owner of DPMS - who was a very nice guy - who puts his $ to support the sport of 3 gunning.

I also shot with 4 LEO's - three of which are full-time weapons training officers for their departments. All of them swore by DPMS and their customer service.

I don't doubt your experience, but I've seen other results.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:34:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChairborneRanger:
the other thing that hurts their reputation is that they aren't/have never been a USGI supplier/subcontractor.



Better rethink your position....

DEFENSE PROCUREMENT MANUFACTURING SERVICES INC
CAGE Code: 40554
Status: ACTIVE
Date CAGE Code Established: 5/23/1986
Last Updated: 7/19/2005

Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:00:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 7:01:31 PM EDT by KA3B]
Hehehe, Anyone think that Oly never was a military supplier....

SGW INC (Schuetzen Gun Works, aka Olympic Arms)
CAGE Code: 4S779
Status: Active
Date CAGE Code Established: 12/3/1983

BUSHMASTER FIREARMS INC
CAGE Code: 7Z500
Status: Active
Date CAGE Code Established: 2/2/1985
Last Updated: 4/4/2005

ARMALITE INC
CAGE Code: 1PV46
Status: Active
Date CAGE Code Established: 4/10/2000
Last Updated: 12/19/2005

LEWIS MACHINE & TOOL CO
CAGE Code: 3W544
Status: Active
Date CAGE Code Established: 11/27/1982
Last Updated: 4/28/2005

MEGA MACHINE SHOP INC.
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Last Updated: 12/14/2005

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Status: Active
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Last Updated: 1/27/2004

AMERICAN SPIRIT ARMS
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Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:41:25 PM EDT
I have a used 16" Bull A2 and its been nothing but a gem. Shoots right at 1". The only malfunctions have occured with Silver Bear ammo. Everything else has run fine in it.

What's not to like?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:47:38 PM EDT
I runa DPMS full auto all the time and never have a problem
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:47:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By COLT6721A3:
I have a DPMS lower ... looks good .. and works fine ...



+1. No issues here.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:11:31 PM EDT
I tried to assemble 3 DPMS carbines from lowers from parts (all DPMS). Several pins did not fit and all of the buffer tube plates were complete junk. I had to get replacements from another source. Since they have been built the one of the three I have seen shot works okay but their parts are not always standardized.

There are some excellent DPMS rifles out there, but there are some dogs also.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:39:41 AM EDT
Lower parts are cast crap.

Recievers made out of 6061 instead of 7075.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:37:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chp5:
I recently shot the Ft. Benning Three Gun Challenge Match. I met the owner of DPMS - who was a very nice guy - who puts his $ to support the sport of 3 gunning.


+1
DPMS is a huge sponsor of 3-gun matches. If you get a chance, check out their tri-gun match that they do in the summer. It usually sells out well in advance, and it's an excellent match.

They also donate rifles to a good number of shooting match prize tables around the country. I've never had a problem with any of their stuff.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:46:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
Lower parts are cast crap.

Recievers made out of 6061 instead of 7075.




Their website says forged7075.

AIRBORNE!
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 7:50:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
Lower parts are cast crap.

Recievers made out of 6061 instead of 7075.



You would be wrong! DPMS uppers and lowers are made out of 7075-T6 Aircraft Aluminum Alloy, hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated. Belittle them if you will, just do it with the truth.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:08:53 AM EDT
It is more of the name game here. I have built several AR15's using DPMS parts exclusively and my first AR15 was a DPMS factory gun. I have to say that the DPMS fit and finish was much better than the few Bushmasters I have seen and shot. Only RRA is more particular to finishing detail that I can find. I have NEVER had a problem with anything I have ordered from DPMS from their parts to their complete AR series of rifles.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:11:10 AM EDT
According to Brownells Catalog, they are 6061. That must be wrong.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:12:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman:


If he can't fix it, perhaps it is broken because he didn't know how to maintain it?




+ a bunch

I've had my Southpaw for 5 years now. Runs without a hitch and is dead nuts accurate.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:17:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:
According to Brownells Catalog, they are 6061. That must be wrong.



Very wrong. www.dpmsinc.com/223.asp

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 9:14:44 AM EDT
<------- runs


1 BM (factory)
1 RRA (factory)
4 DPMS striped lowers
- 1 Whisper
- M4gee
- 1 with a DPMS 20" .22
- 1 reserve


DPMS is dandy to me.

Randy Luth - big cheease / owner type dude did f*ckin handsprings to make sure I was happy when the .22 upper I bought from Brownells took a dump on me.


DPMS rocks. Anyone that says different may have either gotten the occasional lemon (that they all crank out) or simply doesn't know which end is up.

Good luck
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 9:34:13 AM EDT
tag for later
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 10:02:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 10:03:24 AM EDT by lt557]

Originally Posted By scottryan:
According to Brownells Catalog, they are 6061. That must be wrong.



scottryan
Team Member
Colt Expert



Joined :: November 2002
Post Number :: 2464

NE, USA

Perhaps you should stick with advising on Colt questions. ..........EXPERT
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:17:44 AM EDT
I have 2 DPMS rifles. Both of them are top of the line in my opinion, and to me, that's the opinion that counts.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 11:34:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 11:34:59 AM EDT by scottryan]

Perhaps you should stick with advising on Colt questions. ..........EXPERT


Gee, and how do you contribute to the board?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:13:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChairborneRanger:
I think they are "okay"----some folks really like them, others don't. DPMS certainly isn't one of the "majors", like Bushmaster or Colt; the other thing that hurts their reputation is that they aren't/have never been a USGI supplier/subcontractor. Then too, for example, DPMS barrels are not milspec----4140 steel, not 4150, and it seemed that they were really late in the 'game' coming up with chrome-lined barrels----those are the type of things that result in their reputation being less than stellar.



DPMS has not supplied complete rifles, but they have been selling parts to the military for quite some time.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 1:37:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 1:38:36 PM EDT by uscbigdawg1]
It's a stupid name game. Like the morons that spend WAY too much money on a Chevy truck just because it has a Z71 on the side. Guess what, it's the same as a 4x4 with just some extra options (that you can get cheaper if you just added it onto a base truck).

But hey you know it's personal preference and who am I to shrug that. Fit, finish, whatever. Does the rifle go bang every time you pull the trigger and hit where you're aiming? DPMS's do. Mine do. I have a couple of Colts too. I bought them when I was new to shooting. Since, I just build uppers for them, 'cause having to consider everything for large pins is annoying. BTW, when did Brownell's become a source of GOOD information. I would think that the manufacturers website would be a better resource. Just me?

DPMS is a first rate company, with the best at its ownership and customer service. So if you want to spend more money just 'cause it has a horse or a snake on the side...go ahead. But if you are more concerned with shooting the rifle rather than it collecting dust in the safe, cabinet or on the wall, buy a DPMS.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 2:21:51 PM EDT
DPMS usually more lemons than most other brands but it's your money buy what ya want......
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 2:28:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 3:31:30 PM EDT by terrydavis]
In my experience I have had more problems with Busmaster and Rock River, fewer with DPMS. Combine all brands I have experience with over 1,000 rifles or more. I have sold as many lower and or parts kits. I don't buy into the DPMS Crap Mantra.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 2:57:34 PM EDT
I bought a DPMS and am very happy with it. I hear many people sing the praises of Rock River on this forum. I have no doubt they are great firearms. After all so many people here can not be mistaken.

I thought only Colt and Bushmaster used 4150 (mil spec) barrels most others, unless I am mistaken, including Rock River use 4140. Does it truly make that much of a difference??????

Granted I am new to the AR platform but I did a great deal of research prior to my purchase. I found DPMS better priced and was highly reccommended by the person I bought it from.

Link Posted: 12/20/2005 3:03:50 PM EDT
It's all what you want ! DPMS has come a long way in terms of quality just like the others. I think you get alot for your money compared to some of the other Brands. If you want a good shooter , You can't go wrong !!!!
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 3:47:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2005 3:49:48 PM EDT by LPD111]
"What in Gods name could be wrong enough to take the entire firearm out of service?
An AR15 is just made up of a series of "groups", ie., fire control group, bolt group, buffer and tube, upper, gas tube, barrel.
If he can't fix it, perhaps it is broken because he didn't know how to maintain it?

ETA: I'm waiting for my new DPMS M4 upper to get here in the mail. I've used LPKs and other small items from DPMS without problems."
------------------
I understand what you are saying by the series of groups.

I have no idea what is wrong any of them. All of the rifles were fully taken apart, cleaned, and properly put back together. Two of the Officers are prior Marine Corps.

They still would not fuction nor shoot properly. The DPMS rifles were all sidelined by the Chief due to the severe nature of the problems.

They are junk.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:59:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:11:47 PM EDT
I have a dpms and bushy. The fit and finish is pretty much the same to me. Both are reliable. I guess the question is do you like snakes or cats(Panthers).
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:15:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By buzter:
I have a dpms and bushy. The fit and finish is pretty much the same to me. Both are reliable. I guess the question is do you like snakes or cats(Panthers).



I like Ponies.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 1:46:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 2:03:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I like Ponies.



What color?



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