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Posted: 12/16/2005 6:46:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 6:47:42 PM EDT by S-1]
A buddy asked me this but I didn't know the answer. Maybe you can help.

If your Chief of Police authorizes SBR uppers to be used for duty on your personal lower, can you use the upper for LE tasks without getting a stamp? This is in a non-NFA state. He was told that if he leaves the Dep. that he has to sell the upper to another Officer or it becomes property of the Dep.

It seems a like a big gray area to me.

Thanks
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:49:00 PM EDT
I don't know about how legal it is, but he'd have to sell the lower, since that is what is reg'd for use with a short bbl.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:51:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I don't know about how legal it is, but he'd have to sell the lower, since that is what is reg'd for use with a short bbl.



The lower is not registered. It's in a non-NFA state.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:51:53 PM EDT
even the department has to register a rifle as a short barrel it ATF 3 months to approve our 10.5 SBR's. We just dont have to pay the $200 tax. If you put the a short upper on your personal lower it is a violation of Law.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:52:55 PM EDT
A local sherriff or police chief cannot protect you from getting arrested by the BATFE, telling them he said it's ok prolly won't fly.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:55:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 6:56:13 PM EDT by Real_estate_salesman]
.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:04:02 PM EDT
Nope, you need a tax stamp even if it's for official LEO use. You'll fit out a Form 1, but it'll be tax free. If you leave the department and you're in a non-NFA state you can notify NFA Branch that you want to remove it from the registry and go back to a 16" barrel. You can sell the short barrel upper on the EE, you don't need to give it to the dept (esp. if you paid for it with your own dough).
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 7:50:46 PM EDT
My Chief approved the SBR for duty.

All those interested registered their lowers and paid their tax.

Too bad you are in a non nfa state.

Since you are the entire weapon will have to belong to the Department.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 8:39:08 PM EDT
I found this in the State Codes

Unlawful firearms -- Exceptions.
(1) It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or to assemble or repair any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle.

(2) This section shall not apply to:

(a) Any peace officer in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty, or to any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty; or

(b) A person, including an employee of such person if the employee has undergone fingerprinting and a background check, who or which is exempt from or licensed under federal law, and engaged in the production, manufacture, repair, or testing of machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles:

(i) To be used or purchased by the armed forces of the United States;

(ii) To be used or purchased by federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agencies; or

(iii) For exportation in compliance with all applicable federal laws and regulations.

(3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle was acquired prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law.

(4) Any person violating this section is guilty of a class C felony.


Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:35:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 9:49:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 9:52:21 PM EDT by S-1]
David, here's a quote from the site that you posted.....



Here is my attempt to list what state allows what in terms of NFA weapons. The "Y" indicates state law allows private individuals to own the weapon in question. Most of the "Y" states require the weapons be possessed in compliance with federal law to be legal under state law. Some of the "N" states may allow only police officers to possess them, or dealers, or neither. Basically if the privileged class was so narrow, by statute, I said "N". In many states the class of folks able to own NFA weapons is narrow by practice (California), or because no law enforcement officers will sign the certification needed for a transfer to an individual.


If i'm reading the RCW right, the questioned state does allow peace Officers to have them as long as it is used for duty purposes.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:50:50 PM EDT
One of our Swat guys, who is also a Colt certified armorer and likes to build up his own rifles, looked into this. His conclusion was that you can have it in your possession for LEO duties, but you cannot own it yourself. You'd need to have the department buy it for you to carry. I think he determined this based on the RCW passage you quoted dealing with possession, as opposed to manufacturing or purchasing. Consult your local Legal advisor, YMMV. Good luck!

Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:58:12 PM EDT
The department must own it, and it must be on the National Registry.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:04:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:18:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
(2) This section shall not apply to:

(a) Any peace officer in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty, or to any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty; or


This part does not mean a Washington State police officer may purchase a short rifle, what this means is that any police officer who legallly possesses said firearm for duty purposes that they may possess it in WA state.

So if a federal agent is traveling through WA and legally posseses said NFA weapon he is good to go in WA.

If a NE police officer purchased a personal firearm for duty use, and has duty needs to take such weapon to WA state he is ok.

It also covers Military as in military and guard members when on duty with issue weapons from Uncle Sugar that they may carry said firearms as needed.

It does not mean that LE residents are exempt from privatly not owning NFA weapons.

It also does not mean that he can not buy a new bushmaster, complete lower, then have the dept. issue him a RDIAS for duty use and as long as the RDIAS is in his gun, the short barrel may be on. Then when he quits the dept. and moves out of state the RDIAS stays with the dept. and he takes his rifle and gets it short registered where he retires at.




That's why they are told that they would have to leave it in the possesion of the Department.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 11:22:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 11:23:55 PM EDT by npd233]
If you want to put the short barrel on your personally owned lower you'll have to fill out the ATF form, and have the Chief sign off on it, and pay the $200 tax, then you can do it.

If however he just wants his guys to carry SBR's, he can order the rifles himself for the department, fill out the form, pay zero tax, and issue them to you guys. The department must own those weapons for the short barrels to be legal w/o paying a tax.

Just buying the short barrels and giving them to you guys to put on privately owned lowers, w/o going through the proper paperwork and tax, is a violation of federal law. If he doesn't like that law, you all ought to get him to speak out against it and maybe if enough people do so, it will eventually get changed.

Link Posted: 12/17/2005 9:41:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 9:42:50 AM EDT by DevL]
The dept must register his lower and he must give it up PERMANANTLY it will become property of the dept. They can request the item be removed from the registry after he leaves and it can be returned to him as a gift. It willahve to be engraved with the SBR manfufacturers info etc.

He cant just slap on a SBR upper for work then take the lower home, no. Being able to do it (have an SBR) is not the same as not having to have a controlled item on the registry, engrave manf ino on it etc.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 10:15:43 AM EDT
Dave H. is exactly correct. Nothing more to say.
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