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Posted: 12/13/2005 7:34:39 PM EDT
I saw a thread about this topic a couple of weeks ago, but I can't find it even with the search feature. Here's the question:

What is the proper way (to prevent as little stress to the components as possible) for keeping my carbine "at the ready" while at home? I want to keep it loaded, but I do not want to keep a round chambered if the gun is not on me.

Safety on, full mag in, bolt forward? - OR - Safety on, full mag in, bolt back?

Feel free to share anything else I should consider that is related. This is my first AR. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:35:41 PM EDT
bolt forward
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:40:18 PM EDT
Bolt forward.

It's very easy to release the bolt when it's held back by the bolt catch. Any moderate jarring would disengage the catch.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:40:26 PM EDT
Bolt forward hammer back. Operation should be pick up rifle, rack it, rotate safety to FIRE.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:35:04 PM EDT
"Hot Stand-By" is the condition in which my agency maintains our M4s when on patrol.
Step 1: With no magazine in the weapon (extra emphasis on NO magazine), close the bolt on an empty chamber.
Step 2: Place selector switch on fire. Pull the trigger.
Step 3: Load a magazine and give it a tug to confirm the mag catch has engaged.
Step 4: Stow the weapon in a secure location (i.e. a locking weapon rack or an area you know to be secure, such as a safe)
Following these steps will allow you to keep the weapon ready to go at a moment's notice while minimizing the chances of a negligent discharge.

Hope this helps
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:38:28 PM EDT
So it's better to keep the mag in with the bolt forward and the trigger pulled, set to "fire"?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:46:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GreenLine:
"Hot Stand-By" is the condition in which my agency maintains our M4s when on patrol.
Step 1: With no magazine in the weapon (extra emphasis on NO magazine), close the bolt on an empty chamber.
Step 2: Place selector switch on fire. Pull the trigger.
Step 3: Load a magazine and give it a tug to confirm the mag catch has engaged.
Step 4: Stow the weapon in a secure location (i.e. a locking weapon rack or an area you know to be secure, such as a safe)
Following these steps will allow you to keep the weapon ready to go at a moment's notice while minimizing the chances of a negligent discharge.

Hope this helps


+1
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:01:06 PM EDT
if ready to go:
bolt forward, mag in

if locked in safe:
bolt back
NO mag
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:02:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WindDrake:
Bolt forward hammer back. Operation should be pick up rifle, rack it, rotate safety to FIRE.



That's how mine are.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:36:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bushwacker85:

Originally Posted By WindDrake:
Bolt forward hammer back. Operation should be pick up rifle, rack it, rotate safety to FIRE.



That's how mine are.

Mine too. It's not like there's a change of an ND with the safety off as long as there is no round chambered.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:22:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GreenLine:
"Hot Stand-By" is the condition in which my agency maintains our M4s when on patrol.
Step 1: With no magazine in the weapon (extra emphasis on NO magazine), close the bolt on an empty chamber.
Step 2: Place selector switch on fire. Pull the trigger.
Step 3: Load a magazine and give it a tug to confirm the mag catch has engaged.
Step 4: Stow the weapon in a secure location (i.e. a locking weapon rack or an area you know to be secure, such as a safe)
Following these steps will allow you to keep the weapon ready to go at a moment's notice while minimizing the chances of a negligent discharge.

Hope this helps




Yep.....I keep my handguns stored the same way.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:39:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:13:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jaltered:
So it's better to keep the mag in with the bolt forward and the trigger pulled, set to "fire"?



It's not so much an issue of "better". By maintaining a weapon in this manner, you minimize the steps needed to quickly bring the weapon into action while not compromising on safety. Under stress, keeping things KISS simple is a good thing.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:25:13 AM EDT
Rack safe

(bolt closed, hammer down)
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 2:35:45 AM EDT
Condition 3: Loaded magazine inserted, bolt home on an empty chamber, weapon on safe.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:05:53 AM EDT
never store a rifle with the bolt locked back with a loadded magazine. Darwin will win.

Store your rifle bolt forward hammer down saftey off.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:32:50 AM EDT
How many of us have drawn a 16 from the armory and had the bolt go forward at the window as the armorer was handing it to us? Or have the same thing happen to us on turn in.

It happens all the time.

Bolt forward, close dust cover.
Weapon on Safe.
Insert Magazine.



Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:59:42 AM EDT
bolt forward
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:31:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:33:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GreenLine:
"Hot Stand-By" is the condition in which my agency maintains our M4s when on patrol.
Step 1: With no magazine in the weapon (extra emphasis on NO magazine), close the bolt on an empty chamber.
Step 2: Place selector switch on fire. Pull the trigger.
Step 3: Load a magazine and give it a tug to confirm the mag catch has engaged.
Step 4: Stow the weapon in a secure location (i.e. a locking weapon rack or an area you know to be secure, such as a safe)
Following these steps will allow you to keep the weapon ready to go at a moment's notice while minimizing the chances of a negligent discharge.

Hope this helps



This is what my agency uses, although we call it "cruiser safe". That is also how we would turn in our rifles to the arms room when I was in the army (Minus the magazine).
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:40:41 AM EDT
Thanks for clearing it up everyone.

But why do some people pull the trigger first? Is it to add another layer of safety in case they want to leave it set to "fire"?

Again, this is to keep the weapon as my 'go-to' gun at home in the gun safe...my Glock is always on me.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:18:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jaltered:
Thanks for clearing it up everyone.

But why do some people pull the trigger first? Is it to add another layer of safety in case they want to leave it set to "fire"?

Again, this is to keep the weapon as my 'go-to' gun at home in the gun safe...my Glock is always on me.



The safety will not move to the "safe" position if the hammer is down; only if the hammer is cocked. This is the natural position of "rest" for the rifle. If the bolt is home on an empty chamber, and the hammer is down, it's about as safe as it gets, until you charge the weapon. The theory then I suppose is that this method allows you to get in the action that much quicker b/c your weapon is already on fire when you charge it. Really though, it's just a thing to flip your safety to "fire" when you are ready to shoot.

I personally don't think the theoretical/potential time savings in having your weapon on already on "fire" when you move from Condition 3 to Condition 1 is there. If the threat and need for the weapon is that high, then the weapon should be in Condition 1 anyways. Since some agencies as stated above do use the method in question though, they obviosly see a need, so YMMV.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:26:26 AM EDT
I've seen some instances where guys will have this little plastic tab protruding from the ejection port that keeps the bolt out of battery on a loaded chamber. I presume if the SHTF they would just have to pull the thing out like a pin on a grenade and then they are ready to fire...
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:56:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:58:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
loaded mag in, bolt forward, hammer down, safety on fire, dust cover closed



+1
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:02:27 AM EDT
I keep my bolt at a separate location for safety!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:21:07 AM EDT
Chamber flags only work with unloaded rifles. They have there place, on the firing line, not for storing a rifle.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:26:09 AM EDT
In the safe, mine are closed with the hammer down. Why have anything "ready" when it's locked up?

In any "stand by" condition, I'd have already checked for an chamber, so the hammer would be back. Cold stand by would be with the bolt forward and no magazine. Hot stand by would be with the bolt OPEN and no magazine. READY is with the bolt open, and a full magazine inserted.

Safety first! Never introduce ammuniton at all until you're READY to shoot something.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:35:45 PM EDT
Am I the ONLY guy here who carrys the AR with a round in the chamber? (condition 1)
I carry the shotgun that way as well.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:50:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SSeric02:
Condition 3: Loaded magazine inserted, bolt home on an empty chamber, weapon on safe.



+1

WIZZO
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:34:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman:
Am I the ONLY guy here who carrys the AR with a round in the chamber? (condition 1)
I carry the shotgun that way as well.



No. But, the question as asked referred to keeping an AR "at the ready" but without a round in the chamber as it will presumably be stored in a closet.

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:26:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
and hammer down. doesn't take much to rotate the selector and pull the trigger only to find out that there was a round in the chamber. no room for error with little kids and stupid adults in the house. having the hammer at rest is a good thing.



+1
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:50:53 AM EDT
bolt forward, hammer down, safety on fire
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 2:43:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
and hammer down. doesn't take much to rotate the selector and pull the trigger only to find out that there was a round in the chamber. no room for error with little kids and stupid adults in the house. having the hammer at rest is a good thing.



But by that argument, if someone had accidentaly left a round in the chamber, they also have the hammer cocked back but now the safetry is also off. It takes even less effort for the kid/moron to just pull the trigger. I think that's actually a more dangerous way to keep it. Wheteher theres a round chambered or not, the selector on safety gives you one last line of safety.

Unless your worried about the hammer spring wearing out (which I was assured couldn't happen on a different thread) I can't think of why not to stick to the standard bolt forward, hammer cocked, selector on safety state.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 4:47:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman:
Am I the ONLY guy here who carrys the AR with a round in the chamber? (condition 1)
I carry the shotgun that way as well.



I had an instructor (a sheriff's office SWAT dude) that carries his M16 that way. I personally don't because the AR is not drop safe. But I don't take offense to anyone who does carry that way.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 5:03:44 AM EDT

if locked in safe:
bolt back



Why bolt back you are compressing the buffer spring for starters
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:04:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By edpmedic:

if locked in safe:
bolt back



Why bolt back you are compressing the buffer spring for starters



It won't hurt the buffer spring. It's no different than leaving your mags loaded. I wouldn't do it that way because your chamber is open for debris to get into. Plus if you bump the rifle at all the bolt slams shut and scares the piss out of you.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:14:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman:
Am I the ONLY guy here who carrys the AR with a round in the chamber? (condition 1)
I carry the shotgun that way as well.



No.
Bolt closed, round in chamber, full beta, selector on FA.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:28:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metoo:
Bolt closed, round in chamber, full beta, selector on FA.



Yeah! But you're in Louisiana!
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:30:08 AM EDT
Mag Inserted, Bolt Forward on an Empty Chamber, Hammer Back, Safety On.

I carry that way in the cruiser and keep it the same in the safe at home. KISS principle at work.

Grab weapon, rack charging handle, rotate to fire.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 6:48:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By XM17SBullpup:
Mag Inserted, Bolt Forward on an Empty Chamber, Hammer Back, Safety On.

I carry that way in the cruiser and keep it the same in the safe at home. KISS principle at work.

Grab weapon, rack charging handle, rotate to fire.



HUH? Hammer down is WAY MORE KISS! All you do is rack it.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:04:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
loaded mag in, bolt forward, hammer down, safety on fire, dust cover closed



Me to.

Jeremy
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:47:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
loaded mag in, bolt forward, hammer down, safety on fire, dust cover closed



+2
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 9:54:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By septic-tank13:

Originally Posted By Tweak:
loaded mag in, bolt forward, hammer down, safety on fire, dust cover closed

+1


+.9

I think the hammer should be back and safety engaged. Standard manual of arms calls for a rack and safety flip anyhow. Safety should ALWAYS be engaged until you are ready to fire. When the bolt locks back on an empty magazine, I always lock the bolt back and put both my trigger finger and thumb up in a "U" until I'm ready to fire. When ready to fire, sweep the thumb down and place the trigger finger in the trigger guard as your weak hand moves from the bolt release to the fore-grip. Maybe it's just me, though.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 10:13:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:41:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:44:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:

Originally Posted By XM17SBullpup:
Mag Inserted, Bolt Forward on an Empty Chamber, Hammer Back, Safety On.

I carry that way in the cruiser and keep it the same in the safe at home. KISS principle at work.

Grab weapon, rack charging handle, rotate to fire.



HUH? Hammer down is WAY MORE KISS! All you do is rack it.



I'm required to carry that way at work. Hence KISS by keeping the manual of arms the same.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 2:50:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jaltered:
So it's better to keep the mag in with the bolt forward and the trigger pulled, set to "fire"?


In my personal opinion, yes.
In case of need all I have to do is pull back on the charging handle, release it and fire it up.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 2:52:46 PM EDT
Bolt forward, hammer back, safety on, dustcover closed.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 3:09:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 3:10:25 PM EDT by Big-FED]
This issue is getting way too much attention.
The one thing all of us seem to agree on is that, whatever else, the bolt MUST be forward. With the bolt to the rear, one bump with a mag in place and you have a handful of trouble just looking for a time to happen.

I would strongly suggest that you keep the safety on. With the bolt closed and a mag in place, all it takes is to rack the charging handle to chamber a round. The dust cover status is immaterial. The AR is now as ready as it needs to be until you have a target or use is imminent. If you have the safety off and, through distraction, excitement or other issues, it is all to easy to "find" the trigger. Applying the safety after a loud reminder that it was off is not cool. It is up to you just how dangerous you want to be.

My $.02 may save you $$$ at the minimum and a life in the worst case. We are not talking about an airsoft pellet here.

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 3:12:55 PM EDT
fwd/closed

Taffy
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