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Posted: 12/12/2005 8:54:51 AM EDT
here is what I was doing yesterday morning about 0700...

100yds +/-
.223 Winchester 55gr Ballistic Tip

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/Sir_William/Wil_006.jpg
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:11:38 AM EDT
Is that an NcStar? Nice shot by the way.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:16:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 9:19:57 AM EDT by SirWilliam]
yup.... just a cheapie scope to look out a bit farther... 3-9 X 42 shortie NCStar...
It hits where I place it.... i aimed for hit neck just before his shoulders...
instant kill shot and he dropped immediately.

I asked for a RRA varmit upper for Christmas... maybe santa will bring it...

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:44:04 AM EDT
Why Ballistic Tip???
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:00:16 AM EDT
just what i used this time...
i have used soft points , and they work great as well...

this one was a neck shot, no exit wound, and an instant kill.... he dropped where he stood..

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:45:32 AM EDT
Hey, that works for me! Nice shot. I have used my 20" A2 to hunt mule deer in Arizona with good results. I want to take my new 16" but I have to draw deer tags here. No luck there lately.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:05:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
Hey, that works for me! Nice shot. I have used my 20" A2 to hunt mule deer in Arizona with good results. I want to take my new 16" but I have to draw deer tags here. No luck there lately.



What load do you use on mulies?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:05:50 PM EDT
BTW, nice deer, nice shot.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:22:50 PM EDT
Why'd you shoot that goat with your AR?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:36:48 PM EDT
I have roughly the same load ( bought 3 bags of reloads at a gunshow) for coyote hunting.

Glad to see it will work on something bigger than that.

Nice deer

WIZZO
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:55:51 PM EDT


nice!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:46:42 PM EDT
5.56 is illegal to hunt deer with in my state. I have to use an actual hunting weapon.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:23:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Snark1:
5.56 is illegal to hunt deer with in my state. I have to use an actual hunting weapon.



The AR/M16 was designed for hunting humans.

Deer are docile compared to that

WIZZO
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:48:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Snark1:
5.56 is illegal to hunt deer with in my state. I have to use an actual hunting weapon.



Well, I suppose they do want to give the deer a chance-----more "sporting" and all that.........
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:27:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 10:29:56 AM EDT by glock223]

Originally Posted By Snark1:
5.56 is illegal to hunt deer with in my state. I have to use an actual hunting weapon.



You are misinformed, it is perfectly legal to hunt deer with a .223

ETA

I guess all of these Missouri guys/gals are criminals then

Dead Deer
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:28:51 PM EDT
In WI its legal to hunt deer with .22 centerfire rifles. Not what I'd use though. I might use my 22-250 if I had to though.

Lots of varminers use the AR. I plan to build one up that way.

John
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:47:43 PM EDT
How did you get those antlers to stick on that dogs head? Good shooting and congratrs. Is that a coues deer?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:24:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 3:26:44 PM EDT by jaymeister99]

Originally Posted By rcav8r:
In WI its legal to hunt deer with .22 centerfire rifles. Not what I'd use though. I might use my 22-250 if I had to though.

Lots of varminers use the AR. I plan to build one up that way.

John



Legal here in NY to hunt deer with any centerfire ammo, no rimfire ammo. Ive never heard of anybody using 223 for deer. A little on the small side for me, Id be a little concerned about maiming it. rather use something a little bigger.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:25:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SirWilliam:
here is what I was doing yesterday morning about 0700...

100yds +/-
.223 Winchester 55gr Ballistic Tip

i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/Sir_William/Wil_006.jpg



How much did that thing weigh? Thats got to be the tiniest buck I have ever seen!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:38:46 PM EDT
It's illegal here to use .223 for deer hunting. The smallest you can use here is .243 i believe. All you can use .223 for is for small game/varmint.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:59:55 PM EDT
Forgive them father, they know not what they say.


This thread wasn't about if you can kill deer with a .223. You can, people do. There's one at the top of the page. And they're not always that small. Get over it.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:09:11 PM EDT
Down here in the boondocks of south central MO LOTS of people use the .223 for deer. People around here consider them good kid guns. Not many AR's though most use bolt actions. If I were going to hunt deer with a .223 I would use Sierra's 65gr Boat Tail Softpoint or 69gr Matchking. I like these heavy bullets because of their higher sectional density and greater penetration (and yes the 69gr SMK's will expand/fragment )and both my Savage Tactical Heavy Barrel bolt gun and my AR have 1/9" barrels to stabilize these bullets. Most other brands of bolt guns have 1/14"-1/12" twists and these shooters are limited to 55gr or lighter bullets that I don't reccomend. I don't understand why people use these ballistic tip bullets in ANY caliber on deer. I my experience they EXPLODE on the hide and only leave a shallow flesh wound. I had to shoot a 9 point buck THREE times last year to get him down using handloaded Hornady 130gr .270 cal SST's and completely lost another deer solidly hit behind the shoulders with this bullet. These remaining reloads have been relegated to varmint bullets.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:36:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Teufel_Hunden85:
It's illegal here to use .223 for deer hunting. The smallest you can use here is .243 i believe. All you can use .223 for is for small game/varmint.



I agree! you could kill a deer with a "Baseball bat" if you got close enough to him. .223 is a varmint round only! Many of PD has seen his last day with me, with my .223.......I would NEVER use anything smaller then a.243, 6MM on deer size game.
Thats a good law you have in WA.
Theres alway some Pin-head" out there who thinks he can make a good clean kill with the smallest bullet
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:40:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 4:54:23 PM EDT by JBowles]

Originally Posted By Snark1:
5.56 is illegal to hunt deer with in my state. I have to use an actual hunting weapon.



No its not.


Jeff at CMMG Killed a buck at 300yrds this year

Using 75gr TAP ammo out of their tactical bull barrel upper.

The deer made it 30yrds before it died.

the photos are no longer up due to CMMG changing server

heres some on there server



Hell 5.7x28

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:49:58 PM EDT
holy crap you killed one of Santa's tiny reindeer.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:55:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 2:26:37 AM EDT by pathfinder74]
One of these days I'd love to not only go hunting but do it with an AR.

That kicks ass man. Nice shootin'tex.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:56:41 PM EDT
Nice shooting.

Max
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:01:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigHunt:
Down here in the boondocks of south central MO LOTS of people use the .223 for deer. People around here consider them good kid guns. Not many AR's though most use bolt actions. If I were going to hunt deer with a .223 I would use Sierra's 65gr Boat Tail Softpoint or 69gr Matchking. I like these heavy bullets because of their higher sectional density and greater penetration (and yes the 69gr SMK's will expand/fragment )and both my Savage Tactical Heavy Barrel bolt gun and my AR have 1/9" barrels to stabilize these bullets. Most other brands of bolt guns have 1/14"-1/12" twists and these shooters are limited to 55gr or lighter bullets that I don't reccomend. I don't understand why people use these ballistic tip bullets in ANY caliber on deer. I my experience they EXPLODE on the hide and only leave a shallow flesh wound. I had to shoot a 9 point buck THREE times last year to get him down using handloaded Hornady 130gr .270 cal SST's and completely lost another deer solidly hit behind the shoulders with this bullet. These remaining reloads have been relegated to varmint bullets.


What caliber of balistic tip ar eyou hurling at the animal? I have a .300WSM I shoot 150 ballistics out of and it shreds the insides of the deer! Matter of fact I'd say I've only had 3 deer out of roughly 30 leave the corn pile! I started shooting my .308 again because I got the Aurora Day/night scope and quickly realized I missed dropping every 1 in the dirt. So unless you are throughing .223 ballistics at them I don't know!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:07:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 5:09:53 PM EDT by NevadaARshooter]

Originally Posted By BigHunt:
Down here in the boondocks of south central MO LOTS of people use the .223 for deer. People around here consider them good kid guns. Not many AR's though most use bolt actions. If I were going to hunt deer with a .223 I would use Sierra's 65gr Boat Tail Softpoint or 69gr Matchking. I like these heavy bullets because of their higher sectional density and greater penetration (and yes the 69gr SMK's will expand/fragment )and both my Savage Tactical Heavy Barrel bolt gun and my AR have 1/9" barrels to stabilize these bullets. Most other brands of bolt guns have 1/14"-1/12" twists and these shooters are limited to 55gr or lighter bullets that I don't reccomend. I don't understand why people use these ballistic tip bullets in ANY caliber on deer. I my experience they EXPLODE on the hide and only leave a shallow flesh wound. I had to shoot a 9 point buck THREE times last year to get him down using handloaded Hornady 130gr .270 cal SST's and completely lost another deer solidly hit behind the shoulders with this bullet. These remaining reloads have been relegated to varmint bullets.



I killed a large mulie a couple of years ago with my 308 AR10 using a 165 gr ballistic tip. He dropped in his tracks and I recovered the expanded bullet under the far side hyde. It worked great for me.

The .223 55 gr ballistic tips, however, are considered varmit rounds not medium size game rounds. They are designed to expand much sooner than the larger cal ballistic tips.

ETA that you have to be careful wrt terminal velocity with ballistic tips. You don't want to shoot an animal at close range with a ballistic tip at or above 3000 fps. That may be why you had a problem with that 270 130 gr performance.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:17:22 PM EDT
Here in Maryland its not limited by caliber but by muzzle energy. Rifles must be capable of developing a muzzle energy of atleast 1,200 foot pounds, pistols 700 foot pounds.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:13:55 PM EDT
Nice one- good job!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:33:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 6:48:30 PM EDT by SirWilliam]
"I agree! you could kill a deer with a "Baseball bat" if you got close enough to him. .223 is a varmint round only! Many of PD has seen his last day with me, with my .223.......I would NEVER use anything smaller then a.243, 6MM on deer size game.
Thats a good law you have in WA.
Theres alway some Pin-head" out there who thinks he can make a good clean kill with the smallest bullet"


*** Allow me to retort...***

This was a management hunt....
The deer are smaller here in this part of TX

Several does were taken as well...for population control

This buck was a cull and he had several deformaties on his rack if you look close. The base has some deformaties and two of the left points are also deformed.

I'm not sure if he was hit by something, or it is in fact a birth defect, but his left front "knee" had an unexplained growth as well...looking something like a calcium deposit would for us.

I am a very ethical hunter and will only take what my family can eat, or if I do take one for management and I cannot accomodate it in the freezer, I have several friends and family that will...

I will also never take a shot that I am not totally confident will result in a quick, if not instantaneous, kill. That includes bow as well...

Management hunts are a must around here. The population is high...and that includes young bucks. Some inbreeding in the herd is common as well...thus the possible reason for deformaties...

This buck did not die in vain, nor was his death for "rack/trophy" reasons...

This buck fulfilled his role in the circle of life, and will provide my family with meals for a while.

I aim and hit these deer in the neck just before the shoulder area (3-4" before it)...
it takes out about 3-4 vertebrae and ruins no meat except for that area. The deer drop instantly and die what appears to be instantly as well. No meat is ever wasted here. What is not taken in huge chunks for roast, back strap, or whole quarters is used for jerky or ground up. I even take the ribs for smoking as well.

I have been working on another load using a winchester 64gr Power Point...
We'll see how that goes...
The factory 64gr Winchester soft points I tried at the range were not as accurate as the 55gr winchester ballistic tip... I can keep 1" groups easily with them where as I was only getting 3" groups with the 64gr soft points...

This was a friendly discussion and SOMEONE had to start name calling...

Not only am I not a PINHEAD sir I am a former US Marine, and even though I disagree with you... I will defend to the death your right to free thinking and your opinion...

I apologize for stepping on my soapbox....
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:43:31 PM EDT
Sir William, I wouldn't expect much better accuracy than that out of the Win 64gr Power Points. I had some factory loads with this bullet and later reloaded some with Winchester factory component bullets. Both the factory loads and the reloads would shoot the same size groups out of my Savage Bolt action with three usually touching and two flyers opening the group up to about 2" at 100yds. This gun will consistantly shoot under1/2" with any weight bullet of good quality, so I suspect its in the bullets. If you want an accurate heavy bullet I highly reccomend Sierra's 65gr sp or 69gr Matchking.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:30:43 PM EDT
LOL!!!!! OK your NOT a pin-head!
I just think people who use .223 on deer size game are just asking for problems!
I always found that that .223 works great on coyoto out to 300yds. My eyes arent that great anymore(50yrs old).
Buy the way ......Nice buck


Retired ARMY guard 19yrs 5 months 15days
MOS 43E 11B 63B
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:49:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
One of these day I'd love to not only go hunting but do it with an AR.

That kicks ass man. Nice shootin'tex.



I'm sorry but I found this really ironic :P

pathfinder74
Team Member Bronze Contributor
Procrastinator Extraordinaire
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:56:42 AM EDT
I'll agree. I harvested a Mulie buck that was a whole heck of a lot bigger than anything shown here. From about 125 yards, I dispensed one 64 grain Winchester Power Point off hand, and turned him off right where he stood.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 9:00:46 AM EDT
.24 caliber minimum for deer in TN.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 9:36:57 AM EDT
Nice shooting and nice deer. It is all in the shot placement and not the caliber of the projectile. Here in MO any centerfire is allowed and we are overrun with does. even the little 204 ruger will work put in the right place. Its the shooters responsibility to get it there not the gun. Antlerless deer tags cost 7 dollars and we still don't get enough out of the herd each year they lenghten some season hoping for a bigger kill. This year the profuse amount of acorns and the warm weather early dropped our harvest numbers. Congratulations for the management effort you have put forth by harvesting a cull animal.
Clayman90
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 10:47:29 AM EDT
IF the deer don't get any bigger than that, you'd probably be safe using a .17hm2, lol. Hell, it's hard to find one that small around here that doesn't still have it's spots. For anyone that doesn't think a .223 will work on a deer of that size, you're fucking nuts.

It still amazes me how there are so many on here that will say the 5.56 works plenty good on humans, which are usually shooting back at you, but yet the same round is somehow vastly insufficient for a deer which is the same relative size as a man. Hell, that deer shown there can't weigh 100 lbs, which IS a varmit around here. Fact of the matter is, a well placed shot from a .223 and a decent load, is plenty sufficient for deer sized game. Period. The hipocracy around here is just plain fucking ridiculous.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:29:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ridley:
IF the deer don't get any bigger than that, you'd probably be safe using a .17hm2, lol. Hell, it's hard to find one that small around here that doesn't still have it's spots. For anyone that doesn't think a .223 will work on a deer of that size, you're fucking nuts.

It still amazes me how there are so many on here that will say the 5.56 works plenty good on humans, which are usually shooting back at you, but yet the same round is somehow vastly insufficient for a deer which is the same relative size as a man. Hell, that deer shown there can't weigh 100 lbs, which IS a varmit around here. Fact of the matter is, a well placed shot from a .223 and a decent load, is plenty sufficient for deer sized game. Period. The hipocracy around here is just plain fucking ridiculous.




Thank you sir!!! Amen.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:43:13 PM EDT
If anyone thinks the additional .016" will kill a deer with a .240+ caliber rifle over a .223 (really .224, isn't it?) really have some skewed ideas.

A .22LR to the brain would kill a deer, but I'd be willing to bet a .50 BMG to the buttcheek wouldn't.

Get what I'm saying. Shot placement is key in everything.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 12:44:52 PM EDT
Who are any of you to tell anyone else how to spend there money, invest there time and harvest a deer with a 223? Most of us are hunters and I belive all of us are shooters on this site. How about supporting one another rather than bitching like a bunch of school girls. We have enough to deal with in the anit-hunting and shooting crowd as it is. If all of you are against him using the 223 than go buy him a new rifle. I'm sure he'll take a free gun. Nice deer, congrats, send me some jerky if you have to much.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:40:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JJREA:

Originally Posted By Ridley:
IF the deer don't get any bigger than that, you'd probably be safe using a .17hm2, lol. Hell, it's hard to find one that small around here that doesn't still have it's spots. For anyone that doesn't think a .223 will work on a deer of that size, you're fucking nuts.

It still amazes me how there are so many on here that will say the 5.56 works plenty good on humans, which are usually shooting back at you, but yet the same round is somehow vastly insufficient for a deer which is the same relative size as a man. Hell, that deer shown there can't weigh 100 lbs, which IS a varmit around here. Fact of the matter is, a well placed shot from a .223 and a decent load, is plenty sufficient for deer sized game. Period. The hipocracy around here is just plain fucking ridiculous.




Thank you sir!!! Amen.



I agree, as well! Very well said!! CBR
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:00:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChairborneRanger:

Originally Posted By JJREA:

Originally Posted By Ridley:
IF the deer don't get any bigger than that, you'd probably be safe using a .17hm2, lol. Hell, it's hard to find one that small around here that doesn't still have it's spots. For anyone that doesn't think a .223 will work on a deer of that size, you're fucking nuts.

It still amazes me how there are so many on here that will say the 5.56 works plenty good on humans, which are usually shooting back at you, but yet the same round is somehow vastly insufficient for a deer which is the same relative size as a man. Hell, that deer shown there can't weigh 100 lbs, which IS a varmit around here. Fact of the matter is, a well placed shot from a .223 and a decent load, is plenty sufficient for deer sized game. Period. The hipocracy around here is just plain fucking ridiculous.




Thank you sir!!! Amen.



I agree, as well! Very well said!! CBR



I agree, but would rather use a bigger round if I have access to it. But hey, if you can make consistent well placed shots with a 223. Then go for it. If you cant, then you are an idiot thats likely to just cause loads of unnecessary suffering AND help along all the anti hunting left wing bambi hugging vegetarians.

If you can do it well with a 223 or some other small round go ahead. if not get something bigger. But again, bigger isnt necessarily better if you cant shoot it in the right place.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:17:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JJREA:
Forgive them father, they know not what they say.


This thread wasn't about if you can kill deer with a .223. You can, people do. There's one at the top of the page. And they're not always that small. Get over it.



I was thinking along the same lines. There are a rough group of critics on this thread.

To the original poster of this thread I offer up: Great hunt and thanks for the pictures and the experience.

Hey! You were there and successfull!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:26:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigHunt:
I don't understand why people use these ballistic tip bullets in ANY caliber on deer. I my experience they EXPLODE on the hide and only leave a shallow flesh wound. I had to shoot a 9 point buck THREE times last year to get him down using handloaded Hornady 130gr .270 cal SST's and completely lost another deer solidly hit behind the shoulders with this bullet. These remaining reloads have been relegated to varmint bullets.



Every deer and hog I have hit with a 125gr or 150gr .308 Nosler Ballistic tip I have recovered. The largest deer I have ever harvested was with a 95 gr Nosler BT from a 6mm Remington. The bullet completely penetrated both shoulders to be recovered under the hide on the off side shoulder.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:59:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ridley:
IF the deer don't get any bigger than that, you'd probably be safe using a .17hm2, lol. Hell, it's hard to find one that small around here that doesn't still have it's spots. For anyone that doesn't think a .223 will work on a deer of that size, you're fucking nuts.

It still amazes me how there are so many on here that will say the 5.56 works plenty good on humans, which are usually shooting back at you, but yet the same round is somehow vastly insufficient for a deer which is the same relative size as a man. Hell, that deer shown there can't weigh 100 lbs, which IS a varmit around here. Fact of the matter is, a well placed shot from a .223 and a decent load, is plenty sufficient for deer sized game. Period. The hipocracy around here is just plain fucking ridiculous.


TRUE
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:14:29 PM EDT
In SD 1000 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards is legal. My wife shot her last three deer with a .223 colt h bar. Shot placement is every thing even with a .243 all the way to 458 lott.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:56:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dragnet:

Originally Posted By Ridley:
IF the deer don't get any bigger than that, you'd probably be safe using a .17hm2, lol. Hell,
It still amazes me how there are so many on here that will say the 5.56 works plenty good on humans, which are usually shooting back at you, but yet the same round is somehow vastly insufficient for a deer which is the same relative size as a man. Hell, that deer shown there can't weigh 100 lbs, which IS a varmit around here. Fact of the matter is, a well placed shot from a .223 and a decent load, is plenty sufficient for deer sized game. Period. The hipocracy around here is just plain fucking ridiculous.


TRUE



+1
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 8:04:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 8:05:26 PM EDT by ECS]
Its illegal to hunt deet or bear in Va with a 22 cal rifle:


Rifles used for deer or bear must be .23 caliber or larger.


I sure as hell would not try shooting a bear with one...
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