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Posted: 12/11/2005 8:41:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2005 8:43:06 AM EDT by JMH]
My patrol carbine is pretty plain, but it seems to work so far. However, I'm always looking for something that'll make the job easier. I've just got a 10.25" SBR'd Bushmaster with M500A and a Noveske KX3 flash suppressor.




This is my first time posting a photo so if I screw it up please let me know.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:55:42 AM EDT
I wouldn't touch it.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:58:29 AM EDT
Thanks. The guys on my squad don't like it because I guess it's too plain. I get criticism as well because I'm the only one who uses a A1 buttstock on a short carbine.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 9:14:46 AM EDT
what does the KX3 flash suppressor do. Is it just a super duper f/h. I have never seen one in person.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 9:22:53 AM EDT
I just got it and it works as a flash suppressor, but more importantly it directs all the blast and concussion away from the shooter and those to the side. If you've ever shot a 10.25/11.5 carbine indoors when working in close proximity to others there's a tremendous blast to deal with. The KX3 basically sends all that down range and makes life easier. It has about the same suppression qualities as a standards A2 flash suppressor, but the guys standing to my right and left are now able to function without losing their sights allignment and trigger control - that's the real advantage.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 9:29:27 AM EDT
This is my duty SBR. It is heavy but I love it. I also have a plain jane SBR that I also carry.

Link Posted: 12/11/2005 9:29:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2005 9:31:20 AM EDT by feral]
That's a nice little rig.

Two thumbs up.

ETA: Reference is to JMH's build.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 9:35:50 AM EDT
Man... that rifle is WAY to pratical for arfcom!

Seriously, nice looking rig. Have you thought about ditching the muzzle weight and running a 12.5 with a Reflex can? Cycles better, more barrel, higher velcity and you get real sound moderation.

Nice looking rig!

Stay Safe...
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 11:29:52 AM EDT
I'm a large fan of iron sights, but it doesn't change that you are behind the curve without an Aimpoint/ Eotech.

Link Posted: 12/11/2005 11:31:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2005 12:00:13 PM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By JMH:
My patrol carbine is pretty plain, but it seems to work so far. However, I'm always looking for something that'll make the job easier. I've just got a 10.25" SBR'd Bushmaster with M500A and a Noveske KX3 flash suppressor.

i27.photobucket.com/albums/c184/MCSO/IMGP1328.jpg
i27.photobucket.com/albums/c184/MCSO/IMGP1330.jpg

This is my first time posting a photo so if I screw it up please let me know.



It's got a light, so yup GTG. I like rails for more options, but really all one needs is a reliable gun with a light.

ETA: ok one more thing is needed if yer not using a dot sight or other optic, nightsights.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 11:49:15 AM EDT
I like FlyingFive0's rifle, but I'd be afraid I'd cry if I beat it up - it looks really nice. I'm sure there are those who won't agree with me, but all my duty stuff almost has to be "disposable" because it's going to get beat around and dragged over walls. Heck, even handcuffing someone is a problem when the rifle falls around from behind my back and whacks against the back of my Glock. I've got to figure that one out too.

That'd be a good questions - how do you handcuff someone when you've deployed a carbine and backup isn't coming soon (quite a reality for a Deputy Sheriff in Arizona).
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 11:52:27 AM EDT
I don't have to scale many walls or even arrest many folks in my current duty assignment
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 11:53:43 AM EDT
That's a beautiful rifle.. Who makes the lower receiver?
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 11:53:55 AM EDT
Ever cop had better consider their gear disposable. I know for a fact that when I shoot someone, the weapon is gone, and I probably won't get it back. Any duty weapon needs to be able to survive getting beat up and continue to work, that is why it falls into the duty carbine catagory.


Cuffing with a carbine is a matter of training, and I am hesitant to make comments on that issue for a few reasons.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 11:57:50 AM EDT
The rifle is a RRA that was Dura Coated black. it is very shiny in the pic due to cleaning that day. It is covered in CLP.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 12:00:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Ever cop had better consider their gear disposable. I know for a fact that when I shoot someone, the weapon is gone, and I probably won't get it back. Any duty weapon needs to be able to survive getting beat up and continue to work, that is why it falls into the duty carbine catagory.


Cuffing with a carbine is a matter of training, and I am hesitant to make comments on that issue for a few reasons.

One of our deputies just shot someone with his AR15. The state agency that invsetigates our shootings still has it and it has been several weeks. He should get it back eventually but you can never tell how long they will keep.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 12:08:06 PM EDT
I spent my time in "Deputy Hell" - court security, for a lot of months. That's what made me at least start off for thet time being with a "disposable" patrol carbine. I've seen a few LEO shootings where they still have the personal firearms in evidence years after the fact. I don't pretend to know why there's still in evidence, but that's some guy's personal money that's tied up with the case. Not only did he do the right thing, but he's going to be out money for his trouble..
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 12:14:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JMH:
I how do you handcuff someone when you've deployed a carbine and backup isn't coming soon (quite a reality for a Deputy Sheriff in Arizona).



Simple.

Shoot him first, then plant a gun/knife on him, and then.........


Just kidding.

Sling selection would be critical. Not sure if the single-point is ideal here given the way the carbine hangs when you let go. It would hang free between you and your catch.

Something along the lines of spreading the perp out on the ground - face down , etc.

I'll leave the rest to LEOs.

great looking rig, JMH!

Link Posted: 12/11/2005 12:16:26 PM EDT
Man alive, I have got to get an SBR. They are just so uber-cool.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 12:30:49 PM EDT
JMH
I like your Carbine alot.. very well thought out and executed. You have on it just the right stuff that fits the role you needit to perform in. I would not touch a thing. (Just to piss of the guys who give ya shit about it..)
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:01:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2005 1:02:35 PM EDT by Stickman]

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:
One of our deputies just shot someone with his AR15. The state agency that invsetigates our shootings still has it and it has been several weeks. He should get it back eventually but you can never tell how long they will keep.




The department investigation, the criminal case, the crucifiction from the media, the civil suit, the media, the appeals, and I think I forgot to mention the media...... and you will be lucky to see it released in a few years, if ever.

Sure, I know a few areas where weapons are released sooner, but it isn't often. I've got good money into my weapon, but I am willing to throw it away as quickly as I can make proper sight alignment and trigger control. My life is worth more than my work tools, and that is all my carbine is.

ETA- Before anyone comments, yes, I spelled it that way for a reason....
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:16:23 PM EDT
I would keep it simple.
If you feel the need, cowitness
an EOTech or Aimpoint with a gooseneck
mount.

Nice rifle, BTW.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:16:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
I'm a large fan of iron sights, but it doesn't change that you are behind the curve without an Aimpoint/ Eotech.




+1

Its a very nice, well thought out rifle though.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 1:19:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:
One of our deputies just shot someone with his AR15. The state agency that invsetigates our shootings still has it and it has been several weeks. He should get it back eventually but you can never tell how long they will keep.




The department investigation, the criminal case, the crucifiction from the media, the civil suit, the media, the appeals, and I think I forgot to mention the media...... and you will be lucky to see it released in a few years, if ever.

Sure, I know a few areas where weapons are released sooner, but it isn't often. I've got good money into my weapon, but I am willing to throw it away as quickly as I can make proper sight alignment and trigger control. My life is worth more than my work tools, and that is all my carbine is.

ETA- Before anyone comments, yes, I spelled it that way for a reason....



You can add the things that no one really thinks about either... I know a guy that is in review right now and the mortgage he was in the process of getting for his new home was dropped because of the possible pending legal actions (even though it is clean). I mean man, it even slams your credit...
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 5:57:29 PM EDT
Looks fine to me. Tell the naysayers to go pound sand.

BK
AmericanSnipers.org
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:03:57 PM EDT
Are you using A1 sights, or did you swap in an A2?
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:25:43 PM EDT
How does that sling setup work for you? Does it work as well as a side sling setup?
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:31:50 PM EDT
They're A1 sights.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:32:14 PM EDT
I am wanting to get the M500 series hand guard light for my other SBR. I can't seem to find the cash for it yet. Very nice light system.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:32:58 PM EDT
I don't like the sling that way, but I'm searching for an adapter of sorts to use on the A1 stock. Most guys use a collapsing stock and I've got the full A1 so it's a problem.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 6:57:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JMH:
I don't like the sling that way, but I'm searching for an adapter of sorts to use on the A1 stock. Most guys use a collapsing stock and I've got the full A1 so it's a problem.



I like the A1 stock on the carbine. It doesn't look weird. Nice carbine. What is the difference between the sight on the A1 and the A2. I realize the A2 is elevation and windage adjustable but the other guys question makes me think the apertures are different between the A1 and A2. Is that true?
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 7:04:22 PM EDT
Yes, there's a difference. The A1 front sight is round and not squared off and the A1 rear sight is different too - looks like two different holes about the same size. I'm sure someone else can clarify that. The office I work for issues M16A1s and so we have lots of spare parts laying around.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:01:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JJREA:

Originally Posted By JMH:
I don't like the sling that way, but I'm searching for an adapter of sorts to use on the A1 stock. Most guys use a collapsing stock and I've got the full A1 so it's a problem.



I like the A1 stock on the carbine. It doesn't look weird. Nice carbine. What is the difference between the sight on the A1 and the A2. I realize the A2 is elevation and windage adjustable but the other guys question makes me think the apertures are different between the A1 and A2. Is that true?

The A1 has the same size apertures, but the forward one shifts the POI up for longer ranges. The A2 also has an elevation change, but the short range (rear) aperture is much larger. I find the larger aperture of the A2 much quicker for close up and easier to use in low light (the original intent of the larger aperture from what I hear).

If it were my rifle, I'd install the same-plane A2 style apertures made by XS Sighting systems.
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:26:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2005 8:27:11 PM EDT by Tominator425]
This is mine atm (Bushmaster "Patrolman's Carbine")


I just got it two months ago and have other items I want.

I want to get a folding rear sight (Troy or ARMS #40L), flashlight, different mount for the Aimpoint, different rails, etc. But, I am slowly working on it and probably will either carry it with the carry handle only until I get the other stuff I want, or maybe with the Aimpoint.

I have my Rifle school in two days to carry it on duty and cannot wait!

eta grammar corrections...
Link Posted: 12/11/2005 8:59:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JMH:
I don't like the sling that way, but I'm searching for an adapter of sorts to use on the A1 stock. Most guys use a collapsing stock and I've got the full A1 so it's a problem.



Are you looking for a single point sling adapter for a A1 Stock?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:48:01 AM EDT
Which sling are you using, I can't tell from the picture
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:10:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:
One of our deputies just shot someone with his AR15. The state agency that invsetigates our shootings still has it and it has been several weeks. He should get it back eventually but you can never tell how long they will keep.




The department investigation, the criminal case, the crucifiction from the media, the civil suit, the media, the appeals, and I think I forgot to mention the media...... and you will be lucky to see it released in a few years, if ever.

Sure, I know a few areas where weapons are released sooner, but it isn't often. I've got good money into my weapon, but I am willing to throw it away as quickly as I can make proper sight alignment and trigger control. My life is worth more than my work tools, and that is all my carbine is.

ETA- Before anyone comments, yes, I spelled it that way for a reason....



Stick thats the same way I feel about using my SBR for a HD weapon.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:34:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 5:40:56 AM EDT by Lancelot]
I know the joke on arfcom is buy both, but in the case of a patrol carbine I think you need two. And if possible they should be identical, or very close. That way if one goes into the evidence bin, you still have one to use. Or if one goes down for some reason you have a spare. I'm not saying that they should both be in the same car at once, just readily accesible.

Your gun is fine as is. I would go with a single point sling if you use it for entry work though.

I like having the gas block covered on a shorty, but its not that big a deal. You can add a lot of stuff to it, but I suggest you set it up and use it the way it works best for you. The must have is a sling and a light and you have those. If you want to use a single point sling then Tango Down makes the PR16 and DD makes the Burnsed Loop for both the A1 and A2 stocks.

KISS is good on a patrol gun. Irons are fast and never go down.



Here's mine, with a different light setup..... I'm still (constantly) messing with the light placement.



Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:36:10 AM EDT
This is what I carry.

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:38:12 AM EDT
Mine is quite plain too, and I like it that way. Simple Armalite 16" A2 with a light and collapsible stock. I MIGHT cowitness an EOTech eventually on a gooseneck, but not a big deal to me. The only thing I really want is a VFG.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:39:06 AM EDT
Here's a pic of the Tango Down PR16. Works on the A1 and the A2.





Its a little pricier then the DD. The DD works fine, I ran one on an A1 stock for several years.

I also like the older M16 stocks. A1 length, no trap door. They feel more solid, 'cause they are, and there is no rattle. Also the M16 stock has a rounded off rubber buttplate that's easier to shoulder, at least for me.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 5:47:53 AM EDT
Just a comment on the title of this thread.

Pictures don't show you what works well - it just shows you what somebody bought.

If you want to see what works well go attend some 3-5 carbine training classes and observe the gear in use and talk to the owners and see what they like and don't like.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:02:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:
Just a comment on the title of this thread.

Pictures don't show you what works well - it just shows you what somebody bought.

If you want to see what works well go attend some 3-5 carbine training classes and observe the gear in use and talk to the owners and see what they like and don't like.




Very good point.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 9:14:36 AM EDT
I currently find myself carrying the RRA Elite CAR UTE 2, but this is what get's used the most (depending on the misson):

RRA Elite CAR UTE2:


Colt LE6920:


Another Colt LE6920:


Bushmaster 16" M4:




Use what works best for you.....and the only way you can find out what works best for you is to use it in a stressful enviorment (ie. 3 gun / carbine matches, Tactical Carbine / Private Sector classes, Patrol Carbine classes, SWAT Carbine classes, In-Service Training, etc, etc.)

Link Posted: 12/19/2005 6:28:43 PM EDT
I'd say that's a fine patrol carbine, I'd be proud to carry it in my car. I will probably have something very similar when we are approved to buy our own Ars. Mine won't be an SBR though and it will have a collapsible stock. Otherwise it will basically be a Colt LE6920 with a surefure M500AB weaponlight and a Specter CBQ sling.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:51:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:
Just a comment on the title of this thread.

Pictures don't show you what works well - it just shows you what somebody bought.

If you want to see what works well go attend some 3-5 carbine training classes and observe the gear in use and talk to the owners and see what they like and don't like.



+1 Or read the AAR's...

Just like old habits die hard... such as going from steel firearms to AR's: CLP/oil doesn't need to be put on the outside of ALUMINUM. They don't rust and are even parkerized. Only a few external steel parts need a coat of oil. Don't make your AR a dripping, shiny mess (dust/dirt magnet)...

Rmpl
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:54:08 PM EDT
I love the brown Mount on the Carbine above. Can anyone point me in the right direction to have this modification done to my Armalite A2?

This is my Patrol gun. For me, simple is best. Armalite M15A2 16". Fixed carry handle, true 16" bbl, I have mounted a Brinkmann Maxfire, will go to a G2 if I can kill the cheapie. Hogue grip, and a three point sling.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c318/liliysdad/PICT0170.jpg
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:08:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:
I love the brown Mount on the Carbine above. Can anyone point me in the right direction to have this modification done to my Armalite A2?




No one has posted a pic of a Brown Mount. You would be money ahead by purchasing a Armalite A3 flat top upper receiver and putting a back up iron sight of your choice on it.

Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:16:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:
I love the brown Mount on the Carbine above. Can anyone point me in the right direction to have this modification done to my Armalite A2?

This is my Patrol gun. For me, simple is best. Armalite M15A2 16". Fixed carry handle, true 16" bbl, I have mounted a Brinkmann Maxfire, will go to a G2 if I can kill the cheapie. Hogue grip, and a three point sling.

i30.photobucket.com/albums/c318/liliysdad/PICT0170.jpg



Nice Toes!!
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:17:38 PM EDT
Is this not a Brown Mount? If not, I suppose I am confused. Last I heard, the Brown Mount can be done for ~150. Factor in the price of a new upper, and a BUIS, seems like that would be the more cost effective way, but I very well could be wrong, as Im new at this.

http://www.coloradoshooting.org/ute2.jpg.JPG
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:26:23 PM EDT
That's a Larue Tactical mount.
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