Quoted: I always have one SHTF dream that is very detailed and realistic, almost like a premonition or something. It's night and there are burning neighborhoods everywhere, my friends and family are in our trucks bugging out to north Florida and eventually trying to make it out west. We have 4-5 armed men with AR's and heavy rifles. We subsquently get into many shoot-outs with looters and crazed armed gangs. It is realistic down to the mag changes and occasional foul-ups, complete with bullets zinging past our head and the drowning sounds of gunfire. One of the trucks gets a flat going off-road trying to get around a crowded highway area, and we have to patrol in the dark with our weapon-mounted lights. It's very stressful and realistic. I hope it never comes true. I also remember being really hungry in the dream but there is no food around. Like I always said, my ass will probably be found starved to death, slumped over thousands of rounds of ammo and dozens of weapons, since I don't stockpile any food, gas or water. Well as far as actual SHTF use, i'm sure there are plenty of people with desert combat experience on this board. - rem

dude get help!!!



haha, but seriously, I've only had one dream involving firearms... I was staying at a posh apartment in Miami, when a hurricane came and I stuck it out... as did zombie looters! I run for my rifle, tucked away in my apartment, but it's not there! I started panicking, woke up a little, and willed my M4gery into existence. Then I realized I was having a nutty dream and woke up, haha.

What are your chances of having to use your AR in a SHTF scenario? Very, very, very small. Probably about the same probability of you winning the lottery. However, I better to have a useful weapon/cool hobby just in case right? Another thing is, if the SHTF is your REAL concern... take into account marginal utility.

The S, has HTF... you can probably get the 9.5/10 utility out of a cheap, dependable rifle like a M1, SKS, AK clone, plain Jane AR, as you would with a uber-tactical AR... The ratio of costs to you, in "real life" to have a super tactical AR over the gains in a highly unlikely SHTF fantasy scenario make it so that buying all this extra stuff for the zombie apocalypse is kind of silly. That being said, I have a 14.5" and 16" M4gery with Eotech/Surefire/Vltor etc and a case or two of ammo. What for? Umm... when zombies come around? For me it's

75% being an armchair commando.
20% the "hobby" side of owning firearms. Going to the range, working on them, etc.
5% insurance for just in case I have to deal with a home invasion or evil biker zombies from mars.

As long as you aren't taking out a second mortage or neglecting medical insurance/college funding for your kids to satisfy your SHTF fantasies, buy buy away! There is a reason why people on arfcom call it a "disease"

So the original question is if anyone has actually used their decked out AR's in a SHTF situation. The topic has kind of shifted in a few different directions so I will continue to screw it all up. he
So I would say there is a time and place for mods and there is a time and place for bare necessities.

Now, to keep with the topic... If I had my AR a few years ago I would have grabbed it instead of my 9mm to stop a woman getting beaten by her drunk boyfriend while his buddies looked on.

Quoted: Not wanting to hi-jack the thread, but it is related.  My brother and I have been discussing this lately.  We ended up discussing the feasability and the pros and cons of actually "bugging out" versus staying put.   Like some have said, I don't necessarily view civil unrest as a primary concern (my area is rural with scattered small towns 10-20 miles apart).  I fear more of the natural disaster thing.  A big concern for those in my area, those that are actually concerned about this sort of thing, is the spoiling of drinking water.  I live on the shores of Lake Huron and people get concerned about the potential of lake poisoning by terrorists, shipping spills, etc. So that is the process my family and I are going through.  When is enough enough?  My family and I tend to try to look at things realistically.  With a thought more towards food, water, etc.  How 'bout some tips, or just some advice? Thanks in advance. Regards, PatG.

Certainly don't want to hijack or promote anybody's product, but check out Backwoods Home magazine ("practical advice for self reliant living", http://www.backwoodshome.com/).  Long-time lurker, but my first post, I think....

Quoted: ... you can probably get the 9.5/10 utility out of a cheap, dependable rifle like a M1, SKS, AK clone, plain Jane AR, as you would with a uber-tactical AR...

Have always wondered which I would instinctively grab, my plain-jane AR or my AK.

The AR is easier handling, more ergonomic, more portable, more....well you know the rest.

The AK is as tough as a cut nail, utterly unstoppable, and just busts @ss all day long!!!

Good thing I got both!

Quoted: I always have one SHTF dream that is very detailed and realistic, almost like a premonition or something. It's night and there are burning neighborhoods everywhere, my friends and family are in our trucks bugging out to north Florida and eventually trying to make it out west. ...

I also have a SHTF dream.  I have a beat up car that I somehow keep running, always looking for gas and ammo.  I come across a gang of folks that do the same thing and they come after me...

oh...waitaminit...that's not a dream....that's Mad Max!!!

....nevermind.....

Quoted:
It is fine to have a tricked-out AR, however it is probably more important to have food, water, transportation, shelter, energy, and a plan.  If you have these things and only an 870 12 guage or a $125 surplus yugo SKS and some ammo, then you are far better off than having $2000 worth of rifle and kit with only 3 snickers bars and a 2liter joe cola.[/quote

rob,

i could not agree with you more

I held off a hoard of zombies with one, then I woke up...

You know, it's funny that people talk about dreams. I have had a recurring dream of sorts, it's not always exactly the same, but close.
In my dreams, I am usually put in a position where I have to use deadly force (Criminal attack, home invasion, attempting to protect family, zombie hoards, etc.) but for some reason, when I pull the trigger, nothing happens. Either the gun jams, or it doesn't function. Or I don't have any ammo, and can't get to any. If the gun does fire, it has all the effectiveness of a Red Rider BB gun, and does nothing to stop my attacker.

I know, weird. I think that is why I am so particular about my equipment. I want to make sure that I have a well thought out plan, lots of good ammo that is tried and true in my firearms, and have something readily available in case it's needed. I try not to go overboard with it, but I guess my biggest fear is that I will find myself in a situation where I actually do need something, and won't have it. Therefore, I cannot find fault in people who want the best stuff for their rifles. In a SHTF situation, it would be much better to have something and not need it than the alternative.

Quoted: You know, it's funny that people talk about dreams. I have had a recurring dream of sorts, it's not always exactly the same, but close. In my dreams, I am usually put in a position where I have to use deadly force (Criminal attack, home invasion, attempting to protect family, zombie hoards, etc.) but for some reason, when I pull the trigger, nothing happens. Either the gun jams, or it doesn't function. Or I don't have any ammo, and can't get to any. If the gun does fire, it has all the effectiveness of a Red Rider BB gun, and does nothing to stop my attacker.

I think that's a pretty common one. I know I've had it a bunch.

Quoted: Quoted: You know, it's funny that people talk about dreams. I have had a recurring dream of sorts, it's not always exactly the same, but close. In my dreams, I am usually put in a position where I have to use deadly force (Criminal attack, home invasion, attempting to protect family, zombie hoards, etc.) but for some reason, when I pull the trigger, nothing happens. Either the gun jams, or it doesn't function. Or I don't have any ammo, and can't get to any. If the gun does fire, it has all the effectiveness of a Red Rider BB gun, and does nothing to stop my attacker. I think that's a pretty common one. I know I've had it a bunch.

Me too. Whenever I have a dream where I'm in a situation I should be have a blast (zombie invasion, dog fight in an F16, etc.), nothing every works properly, and spend the entire dream frustrated.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You know, it's funny that people talk about dreams. I have had a recurring dream of sorts, it's not always exactly the same, but close. In my dreams, I am usually put in a position where I have to use deadly force (Criminal attack, home invasion, attempting to protect family, zombie hoards, etc.) but for some reason, when I pull the trigger, nothing happens. Either the gun jams, or it doesn't function. Or I don't have any ammo, and can't get to any. If the gun does fire, it has all the effectiveness of a Red Rider BB gun, and does nothing to stop my attacker. I think that's a pretty common one. I know I've had it a bunch. Me too. Whenever I have a dream where I'm in a situation I should be have a blast (zombie invasion, dog fight in an F16, etc.), nothing every works properly, and spend the entire dream frustrated.

Freud says "inferiority complex" with a sideorder of "fear of failure".

The cure?  More AR's

Quoted: You know, it's funny that people talk about dreams. I have had a recurring dream of sorts, it's not always exactly the same, but close. In my dreams, I am usually put in a position where I have to use deadly force (Criminal attack, home invasion, attempting to protect family, zombie hoards, etc.) but for some reason, when I pull the trigger, nothing happens. Either the gun jams, or it doesn't function. Or I don't have any ammo, and can't get to any. If the gun does fire, it has all the effectiveness of a Red Rider BB gun, and does nothing to stop my attacker.

I have had to have that dream at least 20 times, but once in a while my weapon works and I manage to take some of the bad guys out.  The bad thing is I end up getting shot in alot of them and the pain wakes me up. It sucks to wake up sweaty feeling like some one jump kicked you in the chest.
Dont know I might just be weird

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You know, it's funny that people talk about dreams. I have had a recurring dream of sorts, it's not always exactly the same, but close. In my dreams, I am usually put in a position where I have to use deadly force (Criminal attack, home invasion, attempting to protect family, zombie hoards, etc.) but for some reason, when I pull the trigger, nothing happens. Either the gun jams, or it doesn't function. Or I don't have any ammo, and can't get to any. If the gun does fire, it has all the effectiveness of a Red Rider BB gun, and does nothing to stop my attacker. I think that's a pretty common one. I know I've had it a bunch. Me too. Whenever I have a dream where I'm in a situation I should be have a blast (zombie invasion, dog fight in an F16, etc.), nothing every works properly, and spend the entire dream frustrated. Freud says "inferiority complex" with a sideorder of "fear of failure". The cure?  More AR's

I knew someone would bring that up

There are of course many possible senarios including the Star Treck one that has no solution.
I think that it is critical to do two things:
1. keep an eye out on the national/local situation and
2. stock a number of weapons with at least 4 cases of ammo for each type
If things get very bad you will no longer be able to buy ammunition or firearms
With ammunition and firearms in good working condition you can get everything else you need.
So I don't have a generator or stocks of canned food, etc.  I do have several AR15's, an AK47 and 4 Glocks with at least 4 cases of ammo for each type of gun.
Think of what happened in NO--one of the first things the government did was to confiscate civilian owned weapons.  In any senario more serious than that the government might likely do the same--or attempt to do the same.  If you are outside of major cities you will likely be on your own so police and fire alarms will be useless.  You will want to be in a position to protect yourself and your family.  Thus it is not a bad idea to train your family in weapons maintanance and use.  You can't be awake forever so it is important to have someone reliable to stand watch.
If you do this much you will be critically ahead of most americans.  Remember most liberals think guns are evil and only should be used by cops.  I live in a comfortable suburb outside a small city and am probably the only one in a several mile radius to own any weapons.  Too many people trust the government and the police.  When things go terribly bad, and I think this is likely in the not too distant future, the government will likely be your enemy and the cops will be nowhere to be found.  So if you are on this board and you own at least one AR15, know how to shoot it and are considering this possibility you are already miles ahead of most americans.  When push comes to shove you can take food and whatever else you need from the liberals who voted for Gore and Clinton while calmly explaining to them the meaning of the second amendment.

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Quoted:


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Quoted:
I have a similar dream. It involves the robot aliens coming down from the wheel ship in the sky to assimilate us and I bug out with a group of Playboy bunnies who were ex special forces snipers in former Soviet countries. I base all my gear selection on this scenario.


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Man...gotta say...I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK...

(deleted)

That's neither an AR nor a competent SHTF weapon.

wtf. I used to have these dreams too . Haven't had any in the past year or so though. (off topic here, sorry).

Quoted: Quoted: You know, it's funny that people talk about dreams. I have had a recurring dream of sorts, it's not always exactly the same, but close. In my dreams, I am usually put in a position where I have to use deadly force (Criminal attack, home invasion, attempting to protect family, zombie hoards, etc.) but for some reason, when I pull the trigger, nothing happens. Either the gun jams, or it doesn't function. Or I don't have any ammo, and can't get to any. If the gun does fire, it has all the effectiveness of a Red Rider BB gun, and does nothing to stop my attacker. I have had to have that dream at least 20 times, but once in a while my weapon works and I manage to take some of the bad guys out.  The bad thing is I end up getting shot in alot of them and the pain wakes me up. It sucks to wake up sweaty feeling like some one jump kicked you in the chest. Dont know I might just be weird

(deleted)

My AR is a flatop with a ARMS BUIS, GG&G fold down front sight, a EOTech thingie, a M3 light, and a Green laser, BUT, just a AR15 with "stuff" added to it will not help if,

A. It is not with you
B. You do not have the other things you need to survive..

Any vehicle I'm in, I carry 2 bags, 1 has my M4, S&W 4513 TSW with a X2 Laser/Tac light on it, 4 loaded mags for the M4, 5 loaded mags for the 45. It is in a discrete carry gun case. It is Black and Grey, and rectangular. Second bag is a Police shift bag with the following (I'm old, as best I can remember)

LED Shaker Flash Light, military approved model, not cheap Everlast
LED Lantern
Military Jungle First Aid Kit
Blood Clot
Fire Started Kit
Water proof Matches
Wind proof lighter
High energy bars
Water Packs
Special Forces bayonet
Electrical Tape
Duct Tape (yes that is the CORRECT spelling)
Work Gloves
Warm Gloves
Baseball Cap
Warm hat
Wind up Radio
2 Emergency Blankets
Spare batteries - EOTech, Green Laser, M3 Light on M4, X2Laser/light on 45, Led Lantern, Radio
Gun cleaning kit
CLP
Bore cleaner
Prescribed drugs for 1 week
Tac Vest
Small tool kit
Gun Lube
Extra Butane fuel
Deet
Snake Bite Kit
Tri-fold military Shovel
Spare parts kit M4
Military Compass
440 Cord
Velcro Pads, Straps
Gerber hunting Knife 4” folder, belt pouch

Probably more if I do an inventory

On my person

Gerber Tool and pouch

One of the following depending on how I'm dressed

S&W 38 Air Weight with Laser grips
Kel-Tek 380 with laser

I know this sounds extreme but I live in Memphis. We are actually on a worse fault than CA; there have been 115 Earthquakes in the last 6 months in this area. From 3.6 down to 1.5. WHEN we get a big one again, and if I'm in the city, which I am everyday, there is no easy way out. We have bridges in all directions. As we have the Mississippi river to the west. The Nonconnah River to the south. The Wolf River to the north, and east. So I might be here for a while. We have the same demographics as New Orleans, so it probably will not be fun.
I have a carry permit, so no problem with what I have. It really is no problem to swap 2 bags from vehicle to vehicle. The rifle case is 36” long, 1 ft wide and maybe 3’ thick. The shift bag is 10” wide, 11” high and 20” long.
How many of you carry the mimuim you'd need to get by for a week. Around here, the City, and County and have adds on TV to have a 72 hour survivial kit with you at all times.

What happens when you get into a firefight and the cops come along for a report afterwards and take your $2,000+ AR-15. While your waiting to get your AR-15 back the investigation gets put on hold indefinately, stacked on a pile with all the other cases. It's good to have several back ups and be proficient in as many firearms as you can so that you can operate what you pick up.  Being prepared for SHTF means your prepared for any scenario not just one or two. For example what happens if we have a new ice age and your AR-15 won't work half the time in -40F? Do you have a bolt action or AK to be used instead? I don't think it will happen but neither did New Orleans think Katrina would have as much effect as it did. I used to think that stocking pistol ammo wasn't as important as ammo for my rifles. I figured the pistol would be a last resort or if the rifle jammed. Look what happened in Argentina where the country has not collapsed so much as to being able to carry a rifle wherever you go. Everyone carries a concealed pistol and has a good chance of getting in a bad situation. Having pistol ammo stockpiled for this kind of situation would be important. Also carrying a mag or two of some ball ammo could turn cover into concealment. Alot of people may only carry HP defense ammo. My point is have a bunch of guns and have them hidden in different locations. Don't invest all your time and money into your AR-15(s). There is no checklist for all the SHTF scenarios.

I try to have the bare minimum and what can be used universally. I have had all kinds of stuff that I rely on fail in the field. I then go back and try to figure out if I really needed it in the first place.  IMO K.I.S.S. is underated.

Points well taken on the over stocked gun safe. I have a often thought why do I need all of the AR's and shot guns that I have not to mention the pistols. What was I thinking as I accumulated all this stuff. Does anyone need ten thousand rounds of 5.56? If SHFT day happens I'll probably only be able to use at the most two weapons. I think I know which ones they will be but even that changes from day to day. I have been focusing more over the last two years about the reality of massive disorder. We've gone through 4 hurricanes. What does one really need. A plan first. one that all family members are familiar with. Probably should include hitting the road. My house is nice but I'm not going to die for it. My family, now that's another story. I've got a serious 4 wheel drive truck and all the stuff you need in a crisis. (lot's of practice)  The best maintained generator is worthless unless you have surplus fuel to run it.  50 gal. minimum. That's 10 -5 gal jug's setting around waiting for SHTF day. I do and my homowners insurer would have a crap if they knew I was storing it. note: you need to rotate the jugs and dump them into one of your vehicles occasionally and refill them. Gas go's bad..... Food is important, although, we've been without runing water and power for day's. Food hasn't been a issue however, it could be under a different senario. We have water and MRE's in case. Cash is King in crisis situations. I can't tell you how much is enough, but the more the better. The more you think about and discuss a plan with those that you will be with when something happens, the easier everything will fall into place. Now the guns.  The most important accessory for any defense gun is a high quality light for night use. Surefire on all my "Go Too's" Maybe a halo sight and that's it...
Good ammo and clean, well shot guns....... My Three suggestions to have (For every able bodied shooter)-  a LE6920 - FN TPS - 1911 .45acp Lot of extra clips, preloaded in ammo boxes Shotgun shells, yes. Extra batteries for the tactical lights. Don't buy cheap anything that you going to depend on. Sometimes having the confidence that you have the best equipment may help you focus more clearly on what need's to be done with less worry. Anyhow I'm not trading any of my guns for more food or generator fuel but, I do look at what is really important in a bad situation a little differently as of late......

Guns,gear and communication 2M ham radios, will come in handy.

Prediction? Im thinking with  in the next four years.

TG

I'm taking a pass on the SHTF and holding out for the EOTWAWKI.

Using an AR is perfectly fine in an SHTF situation, as long as it's a COLT...




Someone had to say it...

My SHTF plan is simple: Stay where I live.

Being so far out has it's advantages. We've got several springs on the property. Have only 10 gallons stored, and that is simply out of convience. Got plenty of dry foods(beans, rice), and there is so much wild game around here that there is more meat than we could eat in a year.

Only kink could be the freaks from town who panic. But then again, that's why we have the ammo.

Quoted: There are of course many possible senarios including the Star Treck one that has no solution. I think that it is critical to do two things: 1. keep an eye out on the national/local situation and 2. stock a number of weapons with at least 4 cases of ammo for each type

Try carrying 4 cases of ammo out of a disaster area plus all your other immediate needs. Based on where I live, I plan according to what is likely to happen (and what I've lived through already). A massive hurricane. Due to this, I know that I may not have a car that can get out. It may be severely flooded, so I have access to a boat. I also have waterproof multi-handle containers that I can put what I need into, and what is valuable to me to save, like my computers and valuables (things that can be protected from water and hidden for recovery later).

Sure I have a safe full of guns, but when it comes down to survival I only need a rifle, a pistol and a backup ankle/iwb pistol. What I mostly need is a portable water purifier, water, sealed food that won't go bad, flashlights, batteries, medical kits, waterproof boots/clothing items, waterproof bags, etc. I plan for civil unrest and hurricanes. Each person may have different plans based on the likely scenario for their area and can have a truck/car loaded up with items they need.

I honestly see no need for 4 cases of ammo per weapon, because frankly it is rediculous to think that you are going to be able to transport that much ammunition along with your other needed items. That is unless you've got 6-8 other people with you. Got a great truck? Great, but unless you are trailering gas along with it, you've only got one maybe two tanks until you are hiking or hitching. Think you can carry multiple cases of ammo then? Wrong.

Put your money into medical kits and medicine, batteries, flash light(s), backpack, camelback, water purification, non-perishable food & snacks, great boots, good clothing based on your region or destination, IR goggles, tools & fire, tent(s), sleeping bag for warm and cold weather, stuff you can trade, etc.

When we go back to pre-civilization times, THE most important thing will be food and clean water. Next will be gasoline, lastly will be weapons and ammo. A few mags of ammo for two to three firearms will be plenty and you should pick your targets carefully regardless.


- rem

Another thing that no one has adressed is that if the SHTF involves a shortage of food, it may be important to have ammo for shooting game animals. Where I live, there are plenty of rabbits/dove/quail all over the place.  Obviously, you will have food with you, but you can only have so much before you run out.  It might be a good idea to have some appropriate ammo for hunting small game (or big game depending on where you live) to supplement your non-parishable food.  Just my $.02...

You all realize there is a survival forum?

I got in a fight in college.  I went up against two wrestlers and got my ass beat pretty bad. I also gave one of them a concussion and f-ed up the other one pretty good.  One of they guys was my roomate's friend.  One followed me back to my apartment and got in it with me again (yes, this story involves alcohol, but I was not the instigator).  My roommate broke it up and booted him out.  The guy left and said that he would be back.  I told my roommate I was going up stairs to get my SKS (I just purchased) and I will be in my bedroom.  "If anyone comes through my door I will kill them."  My roommate left the apartment and I went upto my room and put the bayonet in the ready position and loaded a 30 round clip.  They never came back.  I found out the next day that a crowd of them were on their way over (bunch of rednecks).  Guess my roommate delivered the message.  I felt pretty secure having he weapon loaded.  But I felt better that the bayonet was out front advertising the kill zone.  I am glad they were not stupid enough to come back.  Legal fees are a bitch.  

Only thing you need is an ACOG or AimPoint and maybe a flashlight. Anything more isnt really needed. Night vision for night time like PVS14 might also be a good idea. Then again it depends on the environment and is mission specific.

My AR-180B got used during the hurricane a couple of times. It was only fired once in anger though.

The family I was staying with in the country thought there was an intruder on the property so I checked it out. Turned out to be one of our number who'd gone outside without telling anyone.

Second time it was used to kill a dog that had shown itself to be aggressive.

I almost did take a human life with my pistol though. A guy I've known for several years pulled out a carbine, cocked it, and almost had it leveled at my sister. I was about 6' away from the guy and managed to difuse the situation before anything bad happened. Had that muzzle dropped another inch, I would have had to shoot the guy. Guy was a Vietnam vet and was freaking out bad. Both he and my sister have PTSD, so it was kinda like a reactor chain reaction melt down. He'd do something that would raise her 'freaking out' meter a peg, and she would react by doing the same to him- back and forth until they were both out of their minds- all in the course of about 5 minutes. Happened real fast. Scary situation.

Natural disasters suck.

This happened on the MS coast during day 3 or 4 after hurricane Katrina.

Depending on your situation, having more ammo than you need is probably better than not having enough.  You never know what kind of situation your going to be faced with.  Depending on my type of transportation situation (do I need to leave, how far am I going, etc), it could easily be left behind, but it would be harder to have to procure it afterwards.  During hurricane season I keep an ample supply of gas, water, food, and ammo for my guns (which get cleaned more regularly during this season).  I've got a truck, and transporting it would be the easiest part.  Getting there would probably be more difficult.  I've got 26 mags, and I'm working on filling them with ammo.  Probably won't need that many, but personally ammo not in mags, that is for a weapon that requires a mag is useless when your being shot at (which is why I keep more than needed loaded).  

As for gear on a ar15, I'd say from most important to least important.
1.  Supply of good ammo/mags
2.  Good sights (irons, and aimpoint/acog/eotech)
3.  Good light (most problems during a SHTF will happen at night)
4.  Good sling that you are comfortable using
5.  Cleaning kit

The rest of that stuff you don't need.  I'd rather be able to use the weight savings to have more ammo, or other things that I need to pack.  BTW, for all you people who think 180 rounds (6 mags) is enough, go shoot 6 mags at 1-2 rounds ever 45 seconds and see how long those 6 mags last).  Maybe longer than your problem sticks around, maybe not.  

Never had a real SHTF situation

But IF  I ever do, I am prepared

Should a real SHTF scenario come, those who have invested in preparation, training, and have a strategy, are the most likely survivors.


I do not dwell on possibilities, but have prepared for most likely events.

Quoted: You all realize there is a survival forum?

Good point sir!!! I'd also like to mention the Training forum as well.... No sense in having the hardware without the software

-Dave