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Posted: 11/29/2005 9:26:43 PM EDT
Hope you folks can help me out, bit new to the AR world. I'm looking to buy an m-4 type clone with a 14.5 inch barrel and a perm. attached flashhider. So far the only factory gun that seems to be offered in this configuration is made by Bushmaster. Problem is Bushmaster seems to be getting bad press these days, every other post I read seems to have a complaint about quality control. So will I most likely be okay with Bushmaster? Or should I explore other options? Any suggestions would be appreciated. I've been saving for awhile and am willing to spend around $1000.....I just want to be happy with the weapon I end up with. Thanks for the help guys!
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 9:29:43 PM EDT
I personally am very pleased with Rock River Arms' work
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 9:31:59 PM EDT
Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 9:46:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2005 9:47:26 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By mco119:
Hope you folks can help me out, bit new to the AR world. I'm looking to buy an m-4 type clone with a 14.5 inch barrel and a perm. attached flashhider. So far the only factory gun that seems to be offered in this configuration is made by Bushmaster. Problem is Bushmaster seems to be getting bad press these days, every other post I read seems to have a complaint about quality control. So will I most likely be okay with Bushmaster? Or should I explore other options? Any suggestions would be appreciated. I've been saving for awhile and am willing to spend around $1000.....I just want to be happy with the weapon I end up with. Thanks for the help guys!



There are three possible explanations for the "bad press"

1. Bushmaster makes FAR more AR's than any other manufacturer. In fact, they make more than all the other manufacturers combined. Because of those numbers, you are likely to see far more Bushmaster maulfunctions, even if their defect rate is the same (or actually lower) than other manufacturers. NOBODY has ever provided any actual numbers to indicate that Bushmaster is having any quality problems. In fact, Bushmaster is generally accepted to be among the top quality of the AR's in the civilian market, along with Armalite, Colt - and more recent companies like RRA and CMMG.

2. There is a small number of fans of Colt's rifles (and Colt makes an awesome AR as well) that love to shit in every thread about Bushmaster and to generally try to justify the premium they paid for their rifles. There is a slight technical advantage to Colt rifles, in that they do slightly more extensive testing of bolts and barrels (but it is a very technical point - and adds maybe $20-$50 value to a Colt rifle over a Bushmaster). That said, if a Bushmaster and Colt were priced equally, or even within $50 of each other, I'd pick the Colt every time. If the price difference is bigger - go with the Bushmaster.

3. Of course the final explanation for the "bad press" is that it is in fact deserved, as that Bushmaster's quality may have deteriorate in the past few years. Like I said above, I've seen no evidence presented to indicate that - but it is certainly possible.


Fortunately, in addition to being known for their quality, Bushmaster is also generally known for really good customer service. In the case of something slipping through quality control in their large volume of manufacturing, they WILL make it right.


I have no reservation in recommending either Bushmaster or RRA to anyone who is interested in my worthless anonymous internet opinion.



As an aside - you really should look at CMMG as well. Their 14.7" AR with permanently attached A2 flash-hider is a little better of an M4 type clone than a 14.5" AR with a permanently attached Izzy or Phantom brake - in my personal opinion.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 9:57:26 PM EDT
CMMG? wow, dont know if I've heard of them. Maybe I'm more of a noob than I thought......thanks for detailed response, some good points
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 9:58:36 PM EDT
colt..


Go to SAW and get the upper, if they don't have any lowers try rguns.
Link Posted: 11/29/2005 10:03:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2005 10:04:38 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By mco119:
CMMG? wow, dont know if I've heard of them. Maybe I'm more of a noob than I thought......thanks for detailed response, some good points




cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=219854&cat=32&

... I think the 14.7 with A2 is about half-way down the page. (I also like the 1/7 twist barrel, which I don't beleive Bushmaster offers currently)

Definitely check them out. Their prices are a little higher perhaps, but they have great quality, and are a first-class bunch of guys.
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 7:26:49 AM EDT
I also like the CMMG M4-type 14.7" w/ standard A2 FH setup. Having the Barrel 0.2" longer than a standard M4 is less noticeable than having the FH 0.2" longer than the standard A2. It also looks better than the 16" M4 profile barrel.

That is assuming that authentic look is what you're after.

I, personally, like the CMMG 16" and 14.5" lightweight barrels with the more effective Phantom (or Vortex) FH. These make sweet handling guns!
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 7:37:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Snaps:
colt..


Go to SAW and get the upper, if they don't have any lowers try rguns.



Yeah. Get a Colt upper. You can put it on any lower you want. It doesn't work out to much mor than a Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 7:37:47 AM EDT
The only AR I currently own is a bushmaster M4, but I am planning on sending my upper to ADCO in the future to have the flash suppressor redone with a Vortex.
I have had zero problems with only about 600 rounds through it. The only problem I do have is keeping my wallet full of money. Damn black rifle disease.

I wouldn't hesitate to get another Bushmaster.

Link Posted: 11/30/2005 7:48:04 AM EDT
Also consider LMT and CMT (Stag Arms) uppers and lowers.

CMT makes parts for Rock River, among others.

LMT is very good as well.

CMT(Stag) has a "Limited Edition" 14.5" M4 profile 1/7 twist complete upper receiver group with a 5.56 chamber, chrome barrel, and MPI bolt/barrel, with a phantom flash suppressor.

Several vendors (Denny's Guns, and GandR Tactical are two such) offer this for $625, and Denny will permanently attach the phantom for free.

Many vendors offer complete LMT uppers and lower, and they will usually change out parts for a nominal fee, such as using a Vortex instead of a phantom, installing a DD, KAC, or Larue rail, etc.

Check the uppers and lowers section on the equipment exchange.

Doing something like this would get you EXACTLY the rifle you want out of the box, instead of changing stuff down the road.

SF

Link Posted: 11/30/2005 1:33:15 PM EDT
thanks for all the help guys; I'll most likely go with Bushmaster. Though I'm going to look into CMMG a bit more. If I can convince myself the extra hassle is worth it, I may consider buying a Colt 6921 upper and having the FH perm. attached. and then buying a RRA lower. Anyway, thanks again
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 1:38:59 PM EDT
I'm no expert, but I really like my LMT upper.

YMMV.
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 2:16:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2005 2:17:52 PM EDT by Stickman]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Snaps:
colt..


Go to SAW and get the upper, if they don't have any lowers try rguns.



Yeah. Get a Colt upper. You can put it on any lower you want. It doesn't work out to much mor than a Bushmaster.




UPPER RECEIVER GROUP, LE6921 W/ SEMI-AUTO BOLT GROUP - FLAT TOP UPPER W/ CARRY HANDLE 14.5in 1/7 M4 BBL- $999.00


Figure a generic lower with quality parts will run $250-300, plus the Phantom or Vortex still needs to get perm attached to the above upper. When you add in the money for shipping, work to the upper (and shipping for that service), you are another $125-150.

That puts a parts gun Coltish 14.5" M4 at $1400+.


The Bushmaster is available in the configuration he wants for $875-950.
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 2:21:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2005 2:58:06 PM EDT by Couch-Commando]
.
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 2:24:08 PM EDT
There are surplus uppers all over the place now adays. I doubt you would need to pay that much unless you really want it new...
Link Posted: 11/30/2005 9:03:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=219854&cat=32&

... I think the 14.7 with A2 is about half-way down the page. (I also like the 1/7 twist barrel, which I don't beleive Bushmaster offers currently)

Definitely check them out. Their prices are a little higher perhaps, but they have great quality, and are a first-class bunch of guys.



Nothing new to add to this post, but for clarification sake;
Bushmaster does offer 1/7, you just have to ask for it......

Good luck with whatever you choose..... just make sure it has the features you want.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 11:58:28 AM EDT
Get the 1/7 14.5 from Bushmaster, you can send in a vortex to them and they will be happy to perm attach it
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 1:14:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Snaps:
colt..


Go to SAW and get the upper, if they don't have any lowers try rguns.



Yeah. Get a Colt upper. You can put it on any lower you want. It doesn't work out to much mor than a Bushmaster.




UPPER RECEIVER GROUP, LE6921 W/ SEMI-AUTO BOLT GROUP - FLAT TOP UPPER W/ CARRY HANDLE 14.5in 1/7 M4 BBL- $999.00


Figure a generic lower with quality parts will run $250-300, plus the Phantom or Vortex still needs to get perm attached to the above upper. When you add in the money for shipping, work to the upper (and shipping for that service), you are another $125-150.

That puts a parts gun Coltish 14.5" M4 at $1400+.


The Bushmaster is available in the configuration he wants for $875-950.



I agree stick, that's a lot of coin for a Frankengun, either go all Colt or save some cash and get a Bushy/LMT/RRA, either way you're getting a great rifle.
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