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Posted: 11/13/2005 10:32:04 AM EDT
I have a question.

Many folks here seem to put much effort into arguements based on X company having or not having a properly staked carrier key. Mostly they relate this as a sign of overall quality of X line of AR's.

Now this messes with my mind. On new AR bolt carrier groups, I generally take a look at the carrier key before I fire it. Often, I will grab my center punch and vise and make sure it is staked in well, regardless of brand name. I see posts were someone will mention a bolt carrier failure in under a certain number of rounds due to an improperly staked key. It isn't like checking this requires special magical engineering capabilities, AR Voodoo, and tools beyond that of which most mortals could ever hope to acquire.

Do people NOT do this?

If not, do they just assume that everything was assembled correctly?

Knowing full well that mechanical parts can and will fail, do some people just feel that checking this, and performing a potential act of preventative protection in under 5 minutes should not have to occur on a quality firearm?

To me it is a non-issue, and I have a hard time comprehending why some people make it sound so important.
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 10:54:32 AM EDT
I suspect MOST do not inspect their guns to this degree, although they should of course

I may be under-estimating the majority, and with forums like AR15.com, I think many more are getting internally involved with their ARs

I have read Bushmaster has had a reputation of the carrier key problems, but I personally have never seen it in mine.
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 11:11:17 AM EDT
It's because many of the buyers have no idea what to look for in the first place. They buy an AR for the first time, know very little about what does what, and what is supposed to be loose and what is supposed to be tight. All many have ever had are hunting rifles and shotguns. When their first AR acts up they have no idea exactly what is happening, why it's happening, or how to fix it.
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 11:13:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2005 11:14:14 AM EDT by Boog]
I torqued my gas key screws down and made a "witness mark" that tells me, at a glance, if my gas key screws have loosened. Everytime I clean (after every range session) I visually check them as well as the condition of my bolt, bolt carrier and extractor.

No problems so far.
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 2:22:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UVvis:
I have a question.

Many folks here seem to put much effort into arguements based on X company having or not having a properly staked carrier key. Mostly they relate this as a sign of overall quality of X line of AR's.

Now this messes with my mind. <snip out the inspection procedures>


That's all well and good, but if the company is willing to save a penny per rifle by not bothering to stake the screws then what else are they not doing right in order to save a little money?
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 2:44:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Boog:
I torqued my gas key screws down and made a "witness mark" that tells me, at a glance, if my gas key screws have loosened. Everytime I clean (after every range session) I visually check them as well as the condition of my bolt, bolt carrier and extractor.

No problems so far.




Why not just stake them so they are done properly? Your staking works the same way as your witness mark, but will stop them from coming loose.
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 3:46:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:

Originally Posted By UVvis:
I have a question.

Many folks here seem to put much effort into arguements based on X company having or not having a properly staked carrier key. Mostly they relate this as a sign of overall quality of X line of AR's.

Now this messes with my mind. <snip out the inspection procedures>


That's all well and good, but if the company is willing to save a penny per rifle by not bothering to stake the screws then what else are they not doing right in order to save a little money?



I'm generally of this frame of mind. I do inspect them to make sure they are done correctly, though.
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 4:03:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:

Originally Posted By UVvis:
I have a question.

Many folks here seem to put much effort into arguements based on X company having or not having a properly staked carrier key. Mostly they relate this as a sign of overall quality of X line of AR's.

Now this messes with my mind. <snip out the inspection procedures>


That's all well and good, but if the company is willing to save a penny per rifle by not bothering to stake the screws then what else are they not doing right in order to save a little money?



I'm generally of this frame of mind. I do inspect them to make sure they are done correctly, though.



Ok, I can see what you guys are talking about a bit. I don't see improper staking of the key/screws to be a cost saving issue at all. I see it as being poor assembly from the get go. However it is something easily fixed. Quality parts can be improperly staked as well.

I'm just baffled that some people don't inspect things like this on their weapons prior to shooting.
Link Posted: 11/13/2005 6:54:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By UVvis:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:

Originally Posted By UVvis:
I have a question.

Many folks here seem to put much effort into arguements based on X company having or not having a properly staked carrier key. Mostly they relate this as a sign of overall quality of X line of AR's.

Now this messes with my mind. <snip out the inspection procedures>


That's all well and good, but if the company is willing to save a penny per rifle by not bothering to stake the screws then what else are they not doing right in order to save a little money?



I'm generally of this frame of mind. I do inspect them to make sure they are done correctly, though.



Ok, I can see what you guys are talking about a bit. I don't see improper staking of the key/screws to be a cost saving issue at all. I see it as being poor assembly from the get go. However it is something easily fixed. Quality parts can be improperly staked as well.

And crap parts can be properly staked but they'll still be crap parts. But as a general rule, the people I see posting about the importance of having gas keys properly staked also talk about things like bolts that are MP inspected and properly marked.


I'm just baffled that some people don't inspect things like this on their weapons prior to shooting.
All parts should always be inspected before first use and on a regular basis thereafter no matter who made them.

Link Posted: 11/13/2005 9:18:07 PM EDT
I inspect, and then stake the carrier key two additional times. It's just cheap insurance as far as I'm concerned.

But hell... I could just be a retard that enjoys wasting his time.
Link Posted: 12/2/2005 8:36:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2005 8:43:33 PM EDT by Tweak]
Link Posted: 12/2/2005 9:23:19 PM EDT
While I agree with you people should inspect their firearms.......................

I think it should be done correctly from the factory which it semms my new stag upper isn't .....



my colt ,rra and even dpms are all staked correctly
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 12:35:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 6:15:20 AM EDT
I agree Tweak......

I have to be honest though when I inpspcted the upper upon receiving it I didn't realize that the way they were staked wouldn't hold up......... I noticed that they were stake differently but didn't really think anything about it .....

It's pretty humbling to have owned AR's for the last 15 yrs and think you know a little about them to find out you don't

I thought I did my research before purchaseing this upper I did a search/read everthing I found about stag or thought I did........ I didn't see anything about this..........all I read was "glowing reports"
Link Posted: 12/3/2005 7:01:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 5:13:53 AM EDT
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