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Posted: 10/27/2005 11:43:11 PM EDT
I'm looking for a retailer that carries M16 style upper receivers without the forward assist. I see that Fulton carries them, but was wondering if anybody else carries these, maybe for a little less $$

Any help is appreciated.

I'm looking at getting one of Colt-653's A1 lowers, matching it with a slick-side upper with M4 style barrel to create a GUU-5/P type carbine. Havent seen one done before, and it sure beats trying to get an A1 upper receiver cheap.

Link Posted: 10/28/2005 12:18:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/28/2005 4:25:15 AM EDT
+1 for the equipment exchange
Link Posted: 10/28/2005 5:25:57 AM EDT
Since the Colt 653 pieces are going to be in the early Sandstrom 9A color, it seems to me that you'd be best off finding an early issue Colt upper in that color. The ones I've seen all seem to be in excellent shape, and usually go for $90-$100 complete. The one I got awhile back had 99.9% original finish, and set me back $100.

Like the other guys said, check the EE for a few days.

BTW, if you just have to have a brand new piece, the Fulton units are actually DPMS units, as far as I can tell. Don't know Fulton's price, but Brownells gats $110.95 for them (or $89.95 if you're on their "professional discount" list).
Link Posted: 10/28/2005 6:26:09 AM EDT
Built on a Sendra A1 lower.
Link Posted: 10/28/2005 7:07:18 AM EDT
What is required to get the discount from Brownells?

Also, nice build Beowulf! I'm pretty much going for the same look, except I may use a Vortex or a KKF extended flash hider.

Link Posted: 10/28/2005 7:45:42 AM EDT
Buy an "original" one from the EE. You'll be happier then with one of the DPMS copies sold at Brownells. If you bide your time you'll get a better deal here on the EE too.
Link Posted: 10/29/2005 12:07:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2005 12:10:23 PM EDT by ch139]
Saw your post, I want one too. This last year I’ve been fortunate to get to play with a few different GUUs.

Some inspiration for you…

















I’ve also seen them (don’t have pics…yet) with an A1 style upper with the forward assist and with the forward assist and shell deflector. There’s all different kinds. To be real retro though, don’t forget the chrome plated bolt carrier w/o FA notches, the A1 grip and the straight delta ring (every GUU I’ve seen has the A1 grip and straight delta ring).

Also, there’s the SBR route if you really wanted to stay with the 14.5-inch barrel and then I believe someone (CMMG?) is making a 14.7-inch barrel. A permanently attached A2 flash hider will get you to 16+ inches and you don’t have to have a goofy non-GUU flash hider hanging off you rifle. I think I’m just going to go the SBR route.
Link Posted: 10/29/2005 12:13:06 PM EDT
One more… this one has the upper with the forward assist and shell deflector, but the lower does not have a full fence.


Link Posted: 10/29/2005 12:24:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cjk1:
What is required to get the discount from Brownells?






A Federal Firearms License
Link Posted: 10/29/2005 2:17:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/30/2005 8:32:37 AM EDT
ch139, those are the sexiest GAU/GUU pics that I have seen...Awesome!

I believe that Fulton Armory carries non-FA bolt carriers, not sure on the chromed bit. I would indeed go with the A1 grip for the legit look. I was suprised to hear that all of the ones that you have encountered have the round delta ring. I would have assumed that the M4 bbl replacements kits would have come with the newer style flared deta ring. I have always liked the look of the old ones anyway. What was the stock material on those that you have handled? Were most fitted with plastic stocks, or did many have aluminum ones?

I'm in the USAF myself, and I love goint to the range, because it's like going to a redneck fixer-upper M16 museum of history; the parts combinations are fascinating. Havent had much time with anything other than fixed stock, but I've seen it all. The last weapon I fired was a slick-side w/ fiberglass stock, chromed carrier, and fitted with an A2 stock. It looked like something that Century would have built. The lower had auto electric-penciled out, and "burst" written on top of it. That part drove me nuts. The goofy part was the ammo that we were using, some really light frangible stuff. Good thing that armorer took all of the time to rebarrel these things with 1/7's...

Link Posted: 10/30/2005 9:10:17 AM EDT
I have two USAF takeoffs. One is a sales sample and the other is for just what you want.

img http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/comcor1us/album?.dir=392e&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos /img
Link Posted: 10/30/2005 9:23:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2005 9:32:16 AM EDT by shamayim]

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By cjk1:
What is required to get the discount from Brownells?






A Federal Firearms License



Or be a state or local LE or Corrections type person. Actually, when I told them I was a state coorections type training officer I expected them to ask for me to send in some ID; but they just took my word for it

BTW, you guys w/access to pieces with the earlier, non mag button guard pieces, have you seen any of them where the spring/detent hump goes all the way back to the edge of the mag box enlargement, as in the later type, or do they all end the hump about 1/4 inch forward of the edge?
Link Posted: 10/30/2005 12:30:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shamayim:


BTW, you guys w/access to pieces with the earlier, non mag button guard pieces, have you seen any of them where the spring/detent hump goes all the way back to the edge of the mag box enlargement, as in the later type,



This doesn't exist, reguardless of what Colt-653 says.

The detent ridge ends at the top/center of the mag release button. I have never seen anything else to prove me wrong.
Link Posted: 10/30/2005 12:35:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cjk1:
ch139, those are the sexiest GAU/GUU pics that I have seen...Awesome!

I believe that Fulton Armory carries non-FA bolt carriers, not sure on the chromed bit.


I've got a Legacy upper.
I don't know how to tell for certain if the Bolt Carrier is chromed, but the one I have certainly looks it.
Link Posted: 10/30/2005 1:38:41 PM EDT
I guess before I start building one of these GUU-5/P copies, I should make sure that there aren't any other original style parts that I'm an not aware of that would be necessary to make it the most original looking. Here's what I'm thinking I will use:

1 - Colt slickside upper from the EE, or Fulton upper if the Colt can't be found

2 - CMMG M4 barrel w/ some sort of flash hider (A1 is I go SBR), with straight delta ring also offered by CMMG

3 - Fulton slickside bolt carrier w/out assist notches, chromed (I think I will leave the bolt itself non- chromed though, as I heard this makes them brittle (any thoughts?)

4 - Colt653's A1 lower, selector, and charging handle

5 - A1 pistol grip

6 - 4-pos Milspec polymer stock and tube (I could use the Colt 2-pos from CMMG, but wouldn't plenty of GAUs and GUUs have had their old aluminum stocks replaced with newer 4-pos plastic stocks anyway, or would they have retained the 2-pos tube and just replaced the actual stock?)

7 - A nice GUU stamp on the lower as depicted in ch139's pics

Anybody have anymore suggestions?



Link Posted: 10/30/2005 3:12:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2005 3:13:09 PM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By cjk1:


3 - Fulton slickside bolt carrier w/out assist notches, chromed (I think I will leave the bolt itself non- chromed though, as I heard this makes them brittle (any thoughts?)







Alot of these guns never had a chrome carrier when they started out life as a XM177/GAU-5.

They used the transitional smooth side carrier (1965~1967) that was parked, and had a chrome gas key, a chrome bolt, and a parked firing pin retainer.
Link Posted: 10/30/2005 3:31:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cjk1:
Anybody have anymore suggestions?


cjk1, the cool thing about the Air Force weapons is that there’s all different variations.
Link Posted: 10/30/2005 3:54:43 PM EDT
Yeah, the Air Force rivals even the Israelis when it comes to riggin' M16s. I think they have a style not matched by the newer weapons.

For some reason, I am really starting to like the idea of no forward assist, and I have always liked non-A2 style sites/carry handle uppers.

Other than going through the entire S.P.O.R.T.S. bit, how many folks have ever effectively used the forward assist to push the carrier/bolt into battery?

I personally have never used one individually, and have only ever used one as part of SPORTS, but just because it was part of the drill.

Link Posted: 10/30/2005 5:32:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/30/2005 5:36:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cjk1:


Other than going through the entire S.P.O.R.T.S. bit, how many folks have ever effectively used the forward assist to push the carrier/bolt into battery?



Ever press check your weapon, or need to chamber a round quietly?

I've done it a bunch of times, and I'm sure there are plenty of others here who have as well.
Link Posted: 10/30/2005 6:02:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2005 6:03:51 PM EDT by bmick325]

Originally Posted By cjk1:
I guess before I start building one of these GUU-5/P copies, I should make sure that there aren't any other original style parts that I'm an not aware of that would be necessary to make it the most original looking. Here's what I'm thinking I will use:

1 - Colt slickside upper from the EE, or Fulton upper if the Colt can't be found

2 - CMMG M4 barrel w/ some sort of flash hider (A1 is I go SBR), with straight delta ring also offered by CMMG

3 - Fulton slickside bolt carrier w/out assist notches, chromed (I think I will leave the bolt itself non- chromed though, as I heard this makes them brittle (any thoughts?)

4 - Colt653's A1 lower, selector, and charging handle

5 - A1 pistol grip

6 - 4-pos Milspec polymer stock and tube (I could use the Colt 2-pos from CMMG, but wouldn't plenty of GAUs and GUUs have had their old aluminum stocks replaced with newer 4-pos plastic stocks anyway, or would they have retained the 2-pos tube and just replaced the actual stock?)

7 - A nice GUU stamp on the lower as depicted in ch139's pics

Anybody have anymore suggestions?




All the GUU/GAU's I handled in the AF had 2 Pos stocks.

There's a special place in my heart for the GAU's and GUU's I was issued...

That said, most were worn out parts guns that could stand to be replaced.
Link Posted: 10/30/2005 9:39:16 PM EDT

Originally posted by Stickman:
Ever press check your weapon, or need to chamber a round quietly?

I've done it a bunch of times, and I'm sure there are plenty of others here who have as well.



Ditto.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 11:07:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bmick325:

Originally Posted By cjk1:
I guess before I start building one of these GUU-5/P copies, I should make sure that there aren't any other original style parts that I'm an not aware of that would be necessary to make it the most original looking. Here's what I'm thinking I will use:

1 - Colt slickside upper from the EE, or Fulton upper if the Colt can't be found

2 - CMMG M4 barrel w/ some sort of flash hider (A1 is I go SBR), with straight delta ring also offered by CMMG

3 - Fulton slickside bolt carrier w/out assist notches, chromed (I think I will leave the bolt itself non- chromed though, as I heard this makes them brittle (any thoughts?)

4 - Colt653's A1 lower, selector, and charging handle

5 - A1 pistol grip

6 - 4-pos Milspec polymer stock and tube (I could use the Colt 2-pos from CMMG, but wouldn't plenty of GAUs and GUUs have had their old aluminum stocks replaced with newer 4-pos plastic stocks anyway, or would they have retained the 2-pos tube and just replaced the actual stock?)

7 - A nice GUU stamp on the lower as depicted in ch139's pics

Anybody have anymore suggestions?




All the GUU/GAU's I handled in the AF had 2 Pos stocks.

There's a special place in my heart for the GAU's and GUU's I was issued...

That said, most were worn out parts guns that could stand to be replaced.


The ones I have seen have the "newer" four position stock.

I’m just a civilian fanatic though I’ve only had an opportunity to see a limited number; I just try to pay attention to what I do get to see. Even the old CATM gun in my pics up there (the one with the blue background) looks like it’s lead a long life, but did have a four position stock on it.

I’ve been thinking about this for a while and wondering which direction I want to go with it. I had though about maybe trying to pick up one of those old complete M16 uppers floating around (slick side, straight delta ring, LW 1/12 barrel, triangle handguards) use the upper and the delta ring and mount an M4 barrel. See if I can find a used Colt lower, have it remarked and SBR it. I’d also then like to find an old Colt chrome carrier. To me, that’s putting a lot of money into something I want to use and abuse. Now I’m thinking about checking with Bushmaster to see if I can get their A1 upper with M4 barrel mounted, find a used straight delta ring to swap on. Use one of the Ammetec chrome carriers (gotta find out more about those) an old four position stock and A1 grip on an existing SBRed lower. Just my little ideas.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 12:02:53 PM EDT
The only discrepancy I can see with your idea of parts to use would be with the A1 upper. The "A1" uppers that Bushmaster has are actually Diemaco C7/8 type uppers complete with a brass deflector, a feature not ound on A1 uppers.

It seems that one could get a slickside upper for less than an A1, as the A1 uppers appear to be more desirable (notice they never stick around on the EE for very long)
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 12:24:25 PM EDT
I have seen a couple of the GUU-5Ps with uppers that have a brass deflector and a forward assist.

To be sure, I had to do a double take and then get up much closer to do a thorough once over, but indeed, it was a Colt marked GUU-5P with an M4 profile barrel and a brass deflector, forward assist and field sights on the upper. The guy carrying it was quite the ass hole and wouldn’t let me take a pic of it. Once my "contact" gets a chance to check one out, I’ll do my best to snap a few pics.

This is why I’m not so stuck on having a slick side upper anymore, I do still think the slick side looks more "authentic," for whatever that’s worth. Also, I’m wrong handed, a shell deflector can be a nice thing to have. Gotta admit though, shooting some of these old rifles w/o shell deflectors has not been a problem.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 1:31:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By shamayim:


BTW, you guys w/access to pieces with the earlier, non mag button guard pieces, have you seen any of them where the spring/detent hump goes all the way back to the edge of the mag box enlargement, as in the later type,



This doesn't exist, reguardless of what Colt-653 says.

The detent ridge ends at the top/center of the mag release button. I have never seen anything else to prove me wrong.



Grrr! One more thing I have to do to the lower I'm converting. The Rock River lower I milled down to A1 specs is going to look easy compared to the XM16E1 piece I'm wanting to build up.

I was going to wait for one of the Colt 653 jobs, but after I saw his pics of the rather crude numbers he's building I took my name off the waiting list and will use a Conti built Century lower that's been sitting around the house for awhile.

Oh well, I'm glad I asked. All the pics I had here at the house of early types have the port cover down, so I couldn't tell where the hump ended.

Thanks for the info. It'd be a shame to put the Colt upper and early smoothside chromed bolt/carrier assy on a non standard appearing lower
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 1:47:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ch139:
I have seen a couple of the GUU-5Ps with uppers that have a brass deflector and a forward assist.

To be sure, I had to do a double take and then get up much closer to do a thorough once over, but indeed, it was a Colt marked GUU-5P with an M4 profile barrel and a brass deflector, forward assist and field sights on the upper. The guy carrying it was quite the ass hole and wouldn’t let me take a pic of it. Once my "contact" gets a chance to check one out, I’ll do my best to snap a few pics.

This is why I’m not so stuck on having a slick side upper anymore, I do still think the slick side looks more "authentic," for whatever that’s worth. Also, I’m wrong handed, a shell deflector can be a nice thing to have. Gotta admit though, shooting some of these old rifles w/o shell deflectors has not been a problem.



Interesting on the brass deflector model. I would guess it probably started as a model similar to the Colt 11.5" uppers that CMMG is selling, as I'm not aware of the USAF using C8 type carbines with a 14.5" thin profile barrel; then again they have used about every other imaginable variation of the AR15, so maybe so. Back when Isayeret.com was free, I saw a pic on there of an IDF troop with a C7 type upper fitted with a newer barrel. I really wish Isayeret was still free, as it was a good source of gun porn.

Link Posted: 10/31/2005 6:08:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shamayim:

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By shamayim:


BTW, you guys w/access to pieces with the earlier, non mag button guard pieces, have you seen any of them where the spring/detent hump goes all the way back to the edge of the mag box enlargement, as in the later type,



This doesn't exist, reguardless of what Colt-653 says.

The detent ridge ends at the top/center of the mag release button. I have never seen anything else to prove me wrong.



Grrr! One more thing I have to do to the lower I'm converting. The Rock River lower I milled down to A1 specs is going to look easy compared to the XM16E1 piece I'm wanting to build up.

I was going to wait for one of the Colt 653 jobs, but after I saw his pics of the rather crude numbers he's building I took my name off the waiting list and will use a Conti built Century lower that's been sitting around the house for awhile.

Oh well, I'm glad I asked. All the pics I had here at the house of early types have the port cover down, so I couldn't tell where the hump ended.

Thanks for the info. It'd be a shame to put the Colt upper and early smoothside chromed bolt/carrier assy on a non standard appearing lower


It’s not the easiest thing in the world to find pics of these things, but they’re out there.


Link Posted: 10/31/2005 6:12:38 PM EDT
Another...

Link Posted: 10/31/2005 6:14:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cjk1:

Originally Posted By ch139:
I have seen a couple of the GUU-5Ps with uppers that have a brass deflector and a forward assist.

To be sure, I had to do a double take and then get up much closer to do a thorough once over, but indeed, it was a Colt marked GUU-5P with an M4 profile barrel and a brass deflector, forward assist and field sights on the upper. The guy carrying it was quite the ass hole and wouldn’t let me take a pic of it. Once my "contact" gets a chance to check one out, I’ll do my best to snap a few pics.

This is why I’m not so stuck on having a slick side upper anymore, I do still think the slick side looks more "authentic," for whatever that’s worth. Also, I’m wrong handed, a shell deflector can be a nice thing to have. Gotta admit though, shooting some of these old rifles w/o shell deflectors has not been a problem.



Interesting on the brass deflector model. I would guess it probably started as a model similar to the Colt 11.5" uppers that CMMG is selling, as I'm not aware of the USAF using C8 type carbines with a 14.5" thin profile barrel; then again they have used about every other imaginable variation of the AR15, so maybe so. Back when Isayeret.com was free, I saw a pic on there of an IDF troop with a C7 type upper fitted with a newer barrel. I really wish Isayeret was still free, as it was a good source of gun porn.



I was thinking that pic I posted was Israeli too (it might be) until I saw a GUU like that. They do exist.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:30:52 AM EDT
TAGUU/GAU
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:02:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:
TAGUU/GAU



Redfisher,

Many, many thanks.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:19:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 6:22:00 AM EDT by Ekie]
Bit of random trivia:

GAU's came from Colt's CAR-15 program that dates back to 1965. In addition to shorties the CAR-15 series included 20" HBAR's and all manor of odd things. As Scott mentioned 1965 production Colt's had parked carriers with chrome keys and bolts. These Colt's were first built in an old serial number range skipped over in 1963, that is the 14,XXX-15,XXX range, then Colt's jumped up to the 200,XXX range for such commercial guns and US GOV shorties. Later US PROPERTY marked shorties were made in the 9XX,XXX range.

What is commonly referred to as "C7" uppers have gotten into the system, apparently as replacement parts, all the ones I have seen are made from CH forgings.

Seems that it is anything goes in regards to GAU rebuilds. Apparently some armorers like to put old chrome 604 carriers (circa 64) in GAU builds. Those parts are available in the Air Force because the old bolt carriers less forward assists are supposed to be replaced when upgrading an old 604 to A2 specs.

I only know of two forgings used on the lowers with the boss for the front pivot pin, and no mag fence. One has a plus sign on the boss, the later one did not. About the same time the forging was changed to leave off the plus sign Colt's began drilling a weep hole for the detent spring. Never seen a Colt's forging that lacked the mag fence, and had the detent boss go all the way back to the end of the mag well.

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