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Posted: 10/13/2005 7:29:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2005 3:03:39 AM EDT by dreemweaver]
I recently built my first AR and took it out to the range. Right from the get go I had an issue with the casings not being ejected about 15% of the time, causing the rifle to jam. The rifle in question is a STAG Lefty upper w/ a SUPERIOR ARMS lower, using new D&H Mags and the Winchester Value Pak from Walmart. Considering I did not assemble the upper I did not expect to have any problems.

I noticed most of the casings that did eject would go about 15' to my left whereas the rest would eject about 3-6'. This kind of led me to believe it was shotty ammo. Being a newbie I can't really say for sure. I had heard good things about the ammo, could it be I just got a bad batch?

After about 200 rounds or so I got fed up, went home, cleaned her up and put her away. I would like to spare myself the frustration this weekend when I go back out.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 7:35:44 PM EDT
I am not familiar with D&H mags, but have you tried USGI mags? Most AR problems are either mag or ammo related. WWB ammo is decent stuff unless you got hold of a bad lot.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 7:38:04 PM EDT
The D&H mags are USGI specs...I am leaning to the ammo myself. Luckily I only have about 100 or so left.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 7:43:46 PM EDT
What is the rifle chambered in 5.56 or .223? If it's chambered in 5.56 and your feeding it .223, you WILL have issues. I suspect the Walmart stuff is most likely .223.

If the "failure to eject" is short cycling the bolt, make sure your gas key (top of bolt carrier) is tight. If it moves at all, re-tork to 40 inch pounds.

Other than that, I'd need more information... I'm still leaning to a chamber issue though.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 8:06:49 PM EDT
I was under the impression that if chambered for 5.56 it should shoot either w/out problems...not the case?
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 8:10:28 PM EDT
I have had no issues with the Wal Mart stuff. If it is chambered for 5.56 you should have no trouble feeding it .223. I would check the carrier key as mentioned before . Who built the upper? Where did the carrier and bolt come from?
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 8:14:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2005 8:17:56 PM EDT by eye_spy]
Check for short stroking. Does your bolt lock back after the last shot?
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 8:14:29 PM EDT
The upper came complete from STAG ARMS. Everything is brand new and the bolt is labeled w/ the STAG brand.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 8:21:37 PM EDT
Just another shot in the dark but do you have the correct buffer and spring in the buffer tube?
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 8:32:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eye_spy:
Check for short stroking. Does your bolt lock back after the last shot?



The bolt did lock back after the last shot everytime...well all but once


Originally Posted By mlm1219:
Just another shot in the dark but do you have the correct buffer and spring in the buffer tube?



The buffer and spring came w/ the STAG 6 Pos Stock....it was the standard buffer.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 9:37:02 PM EDT
Bad ejector spring? or weak, maybe a fluk out of the batch?
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 9:49:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:
Bad ejector spring? or weak, maybe a fluk out of the batch? hr


I kind of thought about that after breaking it down for cleaning, but the cartridge ejector seemed to be repsonsive. Unfortunately it seems like alot of things can cause this problem. Luckily they all seem pretty easy to fix.

I think I will try different ammo first since it is the easiest thing to eliminate w/out spare parts handy.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 10:03:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dreemweaver:
Unfortunately it seems like alot of things can cause this problem. Luckily they all seem pretty easy to fix.




Yup. That's usually the case. Just be patient and do it thru the "process of elimination". Hope you fix it soon.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 11:54:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dreemweaver:
I kind of thought about that after breaking it down for cleaning, but the cartridge ejector seemed to be repsonsive. Unfortunately it seems like alot of things can cause this problem. Luckily they all seem pretty easy to fix.

I think I will try different ammo first since it is the easiest thing to eliminate w/out spare parts handy.



I agree, try military 5.56 surplus ammo which should have more power to cycle the BCG.

Next you could try O-ring or D-Fender around the ejector spring or Wolff extra power ejector springs.

Maybe Magpul magazine follower would help also. Keep us updated.

Troubleshooting Checklist from the Troubleshooting forum
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 11:56:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2005 12:11:44 AM EDT by chewbacca]
If it is chambered for 556 (which it is) you WILL HAVE NO PROBLEMS SHOOTING 223!

Bad extractor/ejector spring is my thought. Replace them with Wolffe springs and if you want an O ring too might as well and then take the rifle out and shoot.

You might also want to increase your buffer weight. Try an H2.

Hell, while your at it, throw a Wollfe Xtra power buffer spring in too.

This is all if it is not a gas problem...

These are all cheap upgrades that would do any AR good.
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 12:01:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2005 12:01:43 AM EDT by ALPHAGHOST]
check your ejector spring

add an O-ring

check your gas tube--it might be bent, but i doubt it b/c it only misfeeds every so often

try different ammo

Link Posted: 10/14/2005 12:08:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2005 11:33:37 AM EDT by dreemweaver]
One thing I just thought of... I did not clean this upper before firing. Could this have caused less than stellar performance? Maybe I should have asked before hitting the range but are you supposed to clean before firing the first time?

EDIT: excuse me because I am truly green when it comes to an AR or new weapons for that matter

Thanks for all of the advice
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 7:07:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2005 7:07:47 AM EDT by boltcatch]
Yeah lube usually helps. You always want to clean and lube before firing the first time. Skip that and one day you'll shoot a rifle with crap in the barrel or load a round with a firing pin that's gunked into it's channel, and you'll get a "surprise".
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 10:32:42 AM EDT
It did seem to be lubed...at least there was visually lubricate on the bolt. Before going out today I made sure it was clean and completely lubed.

Of course my problem only gets worse from here though. So I hit the range again and initially it appears the problem is gone....well at least for the first 20 rounds or so. The problem re-appears. I picked up some Wolf on the way out just to try some different ammo. Well the Wolf is even worse. It isn't necessarily jamming but it does not chamber a new round after firing.

But wait it gets worse yet...after about a 40 rounds or so my bolt completely locks up in the barrel. I cannot pull back the charging handle more than about a quarter inch. My AR has been rendered completely useless. So after about 350 rounds through my new rifle I have a big club. What a way to start out with a new rifle. I dumped some CLP through the magwell onto the bolt and hung it upside down in hopes of loosing it.

Anyone out there have any ideas other than taking it to a gunsmith? If you can't tell I am in desperate need of some help.

Thanks
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 10:47:00 AM EDT
It sounds like a chamber problem now. Contact CMT (Stag) and/or the vendor you purchased it from. They should fix you up.
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 11:53:25 AM EDT
Contacted STAG...very quickly offered to send me a new upper. Although I am pretty agravated about the hassle they do seem to take care of their customers.
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 12:05:12 PM EDT
Could this be an extractor problem?I have heard of manufacturers producing extractors with dimensions that were slightly off on the extractors lip,causing ejection problems.Your best bet would be to contact Stag.Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 12:36:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dreemweaver:
Contacted STAG...very quickly offered to send me a new upper. Although I am pretty agravated about the hassle they do seem to take care of their customers.



Well that is good. Every company makes an occasional lemon. It is only when we start hearing about problems from a particular manufacturer frequently when it becomes an issue.

I am up to my 3rd CMT upper with no problems.
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 1:14:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Vestjam:
What is the rifle chambered in 5.56 or .223? If it's chambered in 5.56 and your feeding it .223, you WILL have issues. I suspect the Walmart stuff is most likely .223.




Complete horseshit. You obviously don't know jack about these rifles. I suggest reading the Ammo Oracle to get your learning started..

Link Posted: 10/14/2005 1:28:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dreemweaver:
Of course my problem only gets worse from here though. So I hit the range again and initially it appears the problem is gone....well at least for the first 20 rounds or so. The problem re-appears. I picked up some Wolf on the way out just to try some different ammo. Well the Wolf is even worse. It isn't necessarily jamming but it does not chamber a new round after firing.




Wolf is nortoriously weak. I use it to check for functioning at the lowe end of the ammo range. If it's not chambering with Wolf then the Bolt Carrier is not getting enough gas. With the SAMMI spec Winchester you're getting mostly good functioning with an occasional issue.

Honestly it sounds like you're having a gas problem. Either the hole in the barrel wasn't drilled large enough, or its leaking ALOT around the front sight base, or you're not getting a good fit between the gas tube and bolt carrier. Other things that can cause this are worn our gas rings on the bolt (or a bolt carrier with a too large chamber for the bolt), Bent or plugged up gas tube (but your rifle is new so I doubt the tube was ever bent and you've not shot it enough to plug up the tube - unless you're putting oil down the gas tube), or a missing gas tube pin (I'm assuming you put one in).

I'd start by suggesting you download a copy (from the Information button above) of the -23&P and read it. You can check the bolt in the following manner (cover on page 3-18 of the -23&P):

1) dissassemble the bolt carrier group (remove the firing pin & cam pin).
2) insert the bolt into the bolt carrier.
3) turn the bolt carrier so the bolt faces the floor.
4) the bolt MUST NOT drop out of the bolt carrier.

If the bolt drops out of the bolt carrier either your rings are worn, or your bolt carrier was drilled improperly. A McFarland one piece gas ring may fix the issue if the bolt carrier is drilled too large. Check with Tweak in the troubleshooting section, I'm sure he can supply the proper dimensions for the bolt carrier.

If the bolt stays in the carrier, and if you haven't put oil/WD40 etc down the gas tube then I'd say the barrel was drilled improperly and I'd send it back to be fixed.
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 10:51:48 AM EDT
Been away a couple weeks. As you read, Forest set me straight on chamber issues. Obviously, I got them backwards.

I did have a similar experience with a rifle I was testing about a year ago. Failure to eject and other cycling issues. Turned out to be a bad chamber.

Sounds like STAG is stepping up to take care of you though. That's good to know.

Off topic real quick. I've had some bad experience with the Wolf ammo. The coating put on the steel case will gum up a rifle. My Colt locked up bad once after a sustained firing session and the coating on Wolf ammo melted. I had to let her cool down and then slam the stock on ground while pulling the charging handle at the same time to clear her out. I quit using the Wolf after that. It's inexpensive to shoot for plinking, but make sure you clean it well after use and load the good stuff when it's for real.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 3:03:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/31/2005 3:06:14 AM EDT by dreemweaver]
Well I got my upper back on Thursday and finally got a chance to test it this weekend. I put about 500 rounds through it, mosty WWB and about 120 rounds of wolf. Out of all those rounds I had one jam w/ the WWB and two failure to feed from the wolf. So I went from a 15%-20% fail rate to less than 1%. Not the 100% I was after but needless to say a big improvement. I suppose the FTF could be from shitty, weak wolf ammo.

Does this rate of failure seem reasonable? Many claim thousands of rounds w/out failure, which is what I seek.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 3:19:06 AM EDT
its new, and wolf is not the best. Give the rifle a few more rounds down range the rifle will work.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 4:02:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:16:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:28:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 1:30:12 AM EDT by HarrySacz]

Originally Posted By Vestjam:
What is the rifle chambered in 5.56 or .223? If it's chambered in 5.56 and your feeding it .223, you WILL have issues. I suspect the Walmart stuff is most likely .223.

If the "failure to eject" is short cycling the bolt, make sure your gas key (top of bolt carrier) is tight. If it moves at all, re-tork to 40 inch pounds.

Other than that, I'd need more information... I'm still leaning to a chamber issue though.



I am so drunk that i read this backwards?

ETA:Now that i have read the entire thread, i know that in fact i was not that drunk and read it correctly.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:14:19 AM EDT
This has been resolved. Since the last update I have fired about 500 malfuntion free rounds and loving it.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:31:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 7:31:58 AM EDT by Top_prop]
Glad to see everything has worked out. Its nice to see a company that backs their products with minimal hassels.

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