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Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:51:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Let me put it this way...

If a dealer put a bunch of M4s up for sale at the same price,

20 LMTs
20 RRAs
20 Bushmasters
20 Stags
20 Colts

after the first 25 phone calls, he'd have no Colts left and five people on the waiting list for when he got more Colts in stock.  Same thing for Colt lowers vs others lowers, stocks, LPKs, barrels, bolts, handguards, whatever.

That's got to be more than a Ford/Chevy type issue of simple preference.  If a dealer had 100 Accords and 100 Camrys for sale at the same sale price and at the end of the day he had no Accords and 99 Camrys left, there's something going on there.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:59:27 PM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
much cheaper and get the same quality.  



I hope you dont' apply that logic to your body armor.

Come over to my forum and do a search or five. You'll soon see why.



I think my point has been lost, yes, I buy the best body armor that I can.  I use PACA for personal reasons, but like every company they use vendors for their products.  Am I going to find the company that supplies PACA their kevlar to get it at a cheaper price, NO.  Will I find the company that makes the carriers for PACA to buy the same product at a cheaper price-YES.  

My whole point with this thread was simply to state, if CMT is the contractor to COLT, why not buy from them?  Granted, COLT does QC all parts coming into the factory and probably rejects a large number of them.  But, for an typical end user, who just shoots here and there, why get caught up in the name game.  Personally, I shoot COLT's on duty.  That is what my department bought me (actually it's a $37.00 military surplus M16A1).  I shoot RRA as my personal rifle, for two simple reasons: I support Illinois business and I refuse to spend $1200.00 on a stock rifle.  That is not to say that if a deal fell in my lap on a COLT, I would not buy it, I would.
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 4:04:25 PM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but if LMT and CMT are as good if not better than Colt, why do people want/pay top price for Colt.  Is it just for the pony?  I'm a colt armoror, and have been through all the classes and heard all the nice things about Colt.  They make a nice product, and I'm not anit-Colt in any way, I guess I just don't understand why people want so much money if you can get CMT products or LMT products much cheaper and get the same quality.  So flame away, I haven't had a good ass chewing for some time.......



Back to the original question:

How much cheaper is an LMT?

Upper:                 $485
M16 B/BC:          $129
Detach. C/H      : $108  [above are G&R tactical's prices]
Handguards       : $  40
Complete Lower: $330 [this was the going price for a complete LMT marked lower a few months ago]

For a total of: $1092, not including shipping.  

You do save $100. Not a big deal on a $1000+ rifle.   The LMT rifle is not MP tested, for those who are concerned about such things.   Beyond that, AFAIC the difference is Ford vs. Chevy.

And just because company X is a contractor for Colt and the components are the same doesn't mean that you're getting the same thing as Colt.   Case in point: my 6920 has a C/H from Cardinal Forging and an upper from Cerro Alumnium products.   I presume the barrel is from ER. Shaw.   Now, I could found a company  "Tyrannic Arms" and order 500 C/Hs forgings, upper forgings, and barrels from the correct contractors.  

Do I know the origin of every single part on the Colt M4?  No.   Even if I can be 100% sure my parts are the same, can I finish the parts properly, assemble the correct parts correctly to form 500 uppers that are at the same quality level as Colt?  No.   Do I have the resources to do quality control to the same level Colt does?  No.   Does any other company?  Probably only FN.

Are Colt perfect?  of course not.  Are other civilian manufacturer's ARs good?  Definitely.    

But, does Colt make more M4 type rifles than anyone else?  Yes.   Do they set the quality standard for M4-type riflesd?  Yes.   Am I getting the same rifle that is the military's M4 (minus a longer barrel, modified FCG and lower)?  Yes.    

And the last "yes" is what I paid the extra $100 for.  
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 4:58:13 PM EDT
[#4]
i've got a 6920 and an LMT (lauer lower--lmt) and lmt upper with m16 lmt carrier/bolt ass.

i paid less than 1000 (considerably less) for the lmt based weapon, the only things on it non-LMT are the m4 stock (cmt) and the LPK (cmt).

i love how people say "well i've seen a colt have this problem" of course not everything is perfect!
why don't people go walk over to the 'troubleshooting' forum and take a gander? (like tweak suggested)
not to say bushy doesn't make a good rifle, or good parts, but somthing must be going on in their assembling or somthing, because every other day on some forum there is a malfunctioning bushy, or one that jams with this or that ammo.

i have one bought, one built, they both haven't let me down yet.
the colt has upwards of 2000+ through it, the lmt only about 500.
the lmt is supposed to be my beat itup gun, do it all, shoot in rain snow, mud, sand, etc.
but honestly the more i shoot the colt the more i like it, i wanted to save it for value, but its meant to be shot, so i scratched that along time ago, its hardly perfect apperance wise anymore.

LMT or Colt, you should be fine either way.
even if you build with brands other than, you shuld be perfectly fine.
i'd trust building over buying anyway.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 1:56:43 AM EDT
[#5]
Ok after reading all three pages I wish to put my 2 cents worth in.
When I was a LEO I purchased COLTS ONLY ( side arms only, long guns were provided we could carry any brand/ cal. we could qualify with). At that time Colt had the best quality you could get. It has been many years since that time and the fire arms industry has advanced with many many manufacturers making great products now.
When I decided to purchase my 1st AR I called a friend who does custom work in addition to being a class III dealer. His normal day job is with the DOD at Crane and I asked him for a AR15 that he would send to the sandbox for one of his fellows.
What I got was Stag lower
CMT upper with a Shaw 20 1-9 government profile. the 1-9 was based on my needs.
He is also a Colt dealer, he knows what goes where in the contracts and he did the best job giving the highest quality for the best price.
Yes he told me that CMT/STAG is making major parts for COLT and he knows how I felt about thier sidearms.
The bottom line is I don't drink Kool aid I use my head and seach for the best I can get and COLT may not be that anymore.
edit for spelling at 5am can't sleep
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