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Posted: 7/10/2005 1:12:39 AM EDT
[#1]
you can return it but IIRC it's pretty difficult, when my old company was shipping them overseas the rule was once they're gone we weren't going to see them again. Have you checked the rear of the pivot pin lug for signs of contact? This could be DIY job. |
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Posted: 7/10/2005 1:16:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Do you encounter exactly the same problem, as I do? And your BM and SA lowers have the same defect, while the lmt upper is OK? |
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Posted: 7/10/2005 1:24:37 AM EDT
[#3]
where is the rear of the pivot pin lug? What is DIY? |
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Posted: 7/10/2005 1:36:39 AM EDT
[#4]
these are the spots where the upper and the lower rub against each other. Wear on these spots is visble.
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Posted: 7/10/2005 2:17:32 AM EDT
[#5]
DIY= Do It Yourself  the blue arrow is the pivot pin lug, you probably don't have the right radius on the rear of it. you should be able to see wear on the anodizing where it is striking the lower receiver. as all dimensions on the lower are referenced off the pivot pin hole I hope that pin hole is not off. |
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Posted: 7/10/2005 2:38:38 AM EDT
[#6]
there is only wear at the spots I've marked with the blue arrows. How do I see if the hole is off? I compared the lower with a dpms lower and I measured, that there is 1mm more material on my lower in front of the hole. the holes were the same diameter.
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Posted: 7/10/2005 2:48:15 AM EDT
[#7]
have you tried that upper on the DPMS lower? there could also be too much material underneath the pivot pin lug pushing the upper away from the lower as the upper pivots open.
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Posted: 7/10/2005 2:58:04 AM EDT
[#8]
yes, and it worked flawlessly. the upper is perfectly in spec. |
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Posted: 7/10/2005 3:20:41 AM EDT
[#9]
do you have a copy of the print for the lower receiver? it's stored under the Information button IIRC, elsewise it's all over online. I'd check and double check before grinding on a lower, might be worth an email to LMT.
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Posted: 7/10/2005 3:45:42 AM EDT
[#10]
I'm not sure who is to blame or if any blame needs to be made. LMT’s uppers are made to hold tighter to the lower to reduce the annoying wiggle between the upper and lower that most AR15s have. This is one of the many reasons LMT uppers are popular. I just assumed that in order to achieve this, LMT either increased the size of the front pivot pin lug or slightly changed the location of the front pivot pin hole to encourage a tighter fit. It doesn’t bother me since 9 times out of 10 I completely disassemble it for cleaning. The only time I’ll open it up half way, is just to inspect the carrier. However, the tilt on the BM and SA lowers are higher compared to the LMT lower, but no scratches are being produced between any of them. So, you may have an incorrectly centered pivot pin hole on the LMT lower. Especially considering that your DPMS lower fits fine with the LMT upper. |
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Posted: 7/10/2005 4:42:03 AM EDT
[#11]
I only have a QC tag and a s/n on the lower. What is an IIRC? What info does the print contain? |
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Posted: 7/10/2005 4:57:39 AM EDT
[#12]
IIRC = If I Recall Correctlly |
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Posted: 7/10/2005 5:16:07 AM EDT
[#13]
thanks  and where is the information button? |
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Posted: 7/10/2005 9:27:58 AM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 7/10/2005 11:49:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Thanks!
it seems, that all the milling work is in spec. Probably either the raw forging was not in spec or it was was simply not put correctly into the CNC milling machine? |
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Posted: 7/10/2005 12:03:38 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 7/11/2005 12:29:29 PM EDT
[#17]
what would be your guess, why it's out of spec?
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Posted: 7/11/2005 12:34:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Mistakes happen, especially when your mind is numb from plugging parts into a fixture and hitting the START button. Every once in awhile, you trap a chip in between the fixture and the piece and it gets machined out of spec, or something like that. Then QA/QC misses their measurement for basically the same reason, part after part after part after part.......................................gets old real fast, I'd imagine. The process is designed to catch these things, but every once in awhile, the planets line up and a piece slips through the cracks. It happens in all industries.
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Posted: 7/11/2005 12:55:26 PM EDT
[#19]
looking at the pics, what do you think went wrong? I've compared my pics with those in the pic thread and the only difference I've noticed is that there is a bit more material in front of the pivot pin hole. But this is my first AR.
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Posted: 7/11/2005 2:21:04 PM EDT
[#20]
thats what it looks like but it would be hard to tell without exact measurements. if you have a mic measure it and im sure you would get other responses with the measurements. i will post mine when i get home from work. |
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Posted: 7/11/2005 2:31:26 PM EDT
[#21]
that would be great! |
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Posted: 7/11/2005 8:27:22 PM EDT
[#22]
That might be enough to cause your problem |
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Posted: 7/12/2005 4:43:03 AM EDT
[#23]
maybe you can tell from the pics what exactly went wrong? Probably it's a DIY? Is there a way to refinish the spot, if I'd grind it to fit? |
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Posted: 7/13/2005 3:18:55 AM EDT
[#24]
here are some measurements of my front pivot pin hole
from the inside of the hole to the front of the reciever which is closest to the dring i have these .091" bushmaster .092" bushmaster .092" bushmaster .081" .50 beowulf AA from the inside of the hole to the top closest to the upper i have in the same order as above .082" .083" .085" .090" hope this helps |
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Posted: 7/13/2005 5:51:48 AM EDT
[#25]
Not a DIY, a send-back. |
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Posted: 7/13/2005 5:55:28 AM EDT
[#26]
you could do it and then refinish it with duracoat or something but i recommend sending it back.
diy isnt for the faint of heart and if not done correctly you have messed up your reciever and a$$ed out. |
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Posted: 7/14/2005 10:33:56 AM EDT
[#27]
I just got a mail from freedom, that
- it is perfectly normal that it does not open completely - they did only export the lower, and are not responsible for it - if I want to send it back, I need to find another exporter - they don't want to waste anymore time with emails on this topic, as I have already wasted enough of their time by sending more than 4 times as many emails as most customers do. So who is responsible? I got the lower from Denny over EE here. Denny is one of the main suppliers of freedom enterprises, so freedom and denny arranged the payment and delivery. I did not write this into my order, but send freedom an informal mail that they should assemble and inspect it carefully prior to shipping. Their answer was: "sure." |
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Posted: 7/14/2005 10:36:46 AM EDT
[#28]
That's poor service. I'd bet the export red tape has something to do with it, but that response is piss poor. |
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Posted: 7/14/2005 10:38:56 AM EDT
[#29]
Weak.
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Posted: 7/14/2005 10:53:46 AM EDT
[#30]
how much do you estimate, the lower has lost in resale value due to this defect?
I might simply try to get that amount back from freedom, as the last payment to them from my credit card is still less than 4 weeks old. |
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Posted: 7/14/2005 11:29:53 AM EDT
[#31]
well some work is needed obviously, grinding down then re-anodize or re-finish the lower. Gunsmith work, not an easy DIY. check pm though 
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Posted: 7/14/2005 12:52:33 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 7/14/2005 1:10:00 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 7/14/2005 1:16:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Have you contacted Denny? I would be surprised if he would let this fly.
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Posted: 7/14/2005 1:31:50 PM EDT
[#35]
I may be missing something here,does the rifle function?
Is the fact that it only opens so far the only problem? I would have to say,use it,it'll loosen up over time
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Posted: 7/14/2005 1:37:02 PM EDT
[#36]
+1 |
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Posted: 7/14/2005 1:38:51 PM EDT
[#37]
If he had gotten a "Deal" on the rifle knowing it was a factory second sure. If you bought a new rifle that wasnt machined correctly you would be in the right to send it back to be fixed. |
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Posted: 7/14/2005 1:41:29 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 7/14/2005 6:48:21 PM EDT
[#39]
The idea that you have been accused of wasting too much of their time with emails would make me irate. |
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Posted: 7/14/2005 9:16:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Someone needs to make good on this, one way or another.
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Posted: 7/14/2005 10:24:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Contact Denny see what he has to say. Who said you are wasting their time LMT or Freedom? Either way I would bombard their ass with email/phone calls everyday about what they are going to do to fix the situation.
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Posted: 7/14/2005 11:11:52 PM EDT
[#42]
freedom. |
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Posted: 7/14/2005 11:22:28 PM EDT
[#43]
The only problem is, that it does not fully open. I think it shoots fine, but I'm legally not allowed to shoot the rifle, until it has the CIP proof marks on it. |
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Posted: 7/15/2005 3:28:19 AM EDT
[#44]
Does it open enough,so as,to allow the removal of the bolt carrier without having to completely seperate the upper from the lower?
If it does,then you have no problem.Just tight tolerance. [edited to add] After reviewing the pics on the first page again,I don't see a problem.Your rifle appears to break down enough to allow removal of the carrier group and bore inspection.Why would you need more?IMHO,I'd rather have one fit like yours than one that fits sloppy. |
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Posted: 7/15/2005 3:44:18 AM EDT
[#45]
should have bought a RRA ar15.
sry you have bad luck man i hope you can get it resolved correctly |
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Posted: 7/15/2005 3:45:08 AM EDT
[#46]
i dont see a problem with it funtion wise but its the fact that its not suppose to be like that is what i would be pissed about.
imo second grade lower is what i would have felt like i got but if its more trouble than its worth to replace it i would at least ask for some type of reinbursement for repairs and just keep the lower. |
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Posted: 7/15/2005 4:03:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Go back and look at pics #7,8 and 9.The pin is in the right position,it appears to fit flush with the detent and appears correct on the other side.Again,I don't see a problem.
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Posted: 7/15/2005 4:05:34 AM EDT
[#48]
you can see it this pic that there is more material in front of the pin to bind against the bottom of the upper reciever keeping it from opening 100% of the way. though not a major deal, it's still not suppose to be like that.
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Posted: 7/15/2005 10:52:43 AM EDT
[#49]
it does have some wiggle, it does not fit any stiffer than the dpms did, it only is out of spec. That has nothing to do with a tight fit. |
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Posted: 7/15/2005 11:06:27 AM EDT
[#50]
I say again - call Denny. |
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