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Posted: 3/29/2005 7:12:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Another few optics of interest for the Recce style guns are the Nightforce 1-4 and the S&B 1.1-4 short dot.
While I prefer the 7.62mm past 250 - like Steve and others mentioned - run what you brung... I am not carrying two semi-auto rifle weapons systems while dismounted. If your are playing carpool then by all means keep a DM gun in the car. |
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Posted: 3/29/2005 7:43:52 PM EDT
[#2]
This is one of those interesting-type threads that gets your mind and wallet to plan evil tax write-offs. Decisions, decisions...
There's always that one team mate that carries too much gear... _________________________________________ |
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Posted: 3/29/2005 7:48:29 PM EDT
[#3]
I think WAY too many people get wrapped around the axles about what configuration their favorite "Operators" are using. Do I look at what the military is using? Sure, but it's just a starting point. I evalutate gear and purchase based on MY needs. I really don't give a rat's ass about matching what Delta-Seal-Tactical-Ninja-Rangers are using. |
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Posted: 3/29/2005 7:54:17 PM EDT
[#4]
I think the cream will rise to the top.
But I like the idea of a tricked out "works" carbine with a target barrel- not just a "rack grade" M4 and the recce beaner is more multi-purpose/handier than a SPR Kinda why I went for the 6721 over the 6920 for the HBAR ACOG fund at a pathetic $200 |
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Posted: 3/29/2005 8:11:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Dude - always trust the Ninja's...  |
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Posted: 3/29/2005 8:17:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Kisara, I got that same magazine!!!!!! Great info on the meu/soc pistol. Call me a dolt but I ordered some of them pachmyr grips. Which is funny because that was the thing pat liked least about the pistol. I got small hands but I never had a problem wrapping them around my taurus 99, which is like a berreta. I don't know what the big deal is. In fact I think the taurus is wider because of the grips it has. It has less of a curve to it.
As far as range with a 5.56. There have been some guys in the hunting forum.... uh hum m98 code red that have gotten deer kills out to 400 yards using the 68 grain black hills saami loaded round. Now he's using a longer barrel than 16" but I agree with kevin b. it'll still yaw. It'll still kill. Past whatever some chart says. 
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Posted: 3/29/2005 8:18:08 PM EDT
[#7]
And that about sums it all up. |
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Posted: 3/29/2005 8:19:10 PM EDT
[#8]
I like to know what they like because I don't have the money to try everything myself. |
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Posted: 3/29/2005 8:32:51 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm interested in seein how that new Leupy turns out. I'd have to look through one firsthand to pick it over a NF NXS though.
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Posted: 3/29/2005 8:35:57 PM EDT
[#10]
You're absolutely correct. I'll see if I can get this thread locked shortly and end this discussion so we can go back to talking about underwater bump firing and shotguns v. ARs for home defense. |
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Posted: 3/29/2005 8:50:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Nice to see you're in a good mood Lumpy. WIZZO |
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Posted: 3/29/2005 9:34:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Exactly! I figure if it works for them in the "Real World" it will surely work for me.
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Posted: 3/29/2005 9:44:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Military gear is tested to destruction. My stuff....I try to avoid that!
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Posted: 3/30/2005 4:29:57 AM EDT
[#14]
Here is a "perfect clone" NSW RECCE RIFLE by MSTN. The real RECCE's feature a special barrel by LILJA, WYLDE chamber and a CARBINE length gas system. They were designed to be a small sniper grade platform that shoots SUB MOA with match grade ammo yet have comple RELIABLE ammo interchageablitiy with also M193 and M855. This recce features a URX II fore end with KAC mil contract COYOTE panels. Use of the ACOG's on the RECCE allow FAST target accuisition on humans with the pre-ranged tritum illuminated reticle for all light conditions. The reticle allows hits on a human torso out to 800M. I use the TA-31F "Chevron" reticle. I prefer the RECCE to the SPR being it is lighter, shorter and you can shoot all NATO ammo RELIABLY. It is also much eaiser to use in a CQB enviroment. The RECCE and the SPR both shoot pretty much the same, just with the RECCE you have the above mentioned benefits. Hope this helps you.
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Posted: 3/30/2005 5:15:10 AM EDT
[#15]
That is, well, perfect.
Thanks.....Chad |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 5:32:34 AM EDT
[#16]
WIN9639445, that rifle is the heat!
Congrats. Will |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 5:45:51 AM EDT
[#17]
Better yet, why not go back to talking about AirSoft and cheap-ass imitation gear? 
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Posted: 3/30/2005 6:00:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Tag
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Posted: 3/30/2005 6:04:08 AM EDT
[#19]
is it supposed to have a chrome lined barrel?
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Posted: 3/30/2005 6:33:18 AM EDT
[#20]
tag
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Posted: 3/30/2005 7:22:40 AM EDT
[#21]
That's exactly what I figured and was trying to ask. You picked the best for each application. I was just checking to make sure you were NOT trying to create an all-round type setup. Basically, each is the best choice for that length, type or size of rifle. |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 7:35:34 AM EDT
[#22]
WIN9639445: How does your rifle shoot? What distances have you shot it at?
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Posted: 3/30/2005 7:35:56 AM EDT
[#23]
The other compromise you have to consider with these is the weight/contour. The first ones I built for some guys in Iraq had carbine gas systems, and were .850 under the handguard. I shot and zeroed before shipping and all shot under MOA, at the range.
The last ones I shipped, little Schuster and I took to a Pop-Up match (Army qualifying course out to 300meters). We only had 2 magazines each, but SHIT did they heat up QUICK!  We were still hitting them at 300yds,(I got 38, he got 40) but not sure how “accurately” towards the end. I took one back to the regular range the next day and rattled off 2 mags before shooting for groups. 3 MOA vertical strings were the best I could manage. SS needs meat. My final compromise was to add a bit more weight .900 under HG w/mid gas system(more area under HG) and they definitely take longer to heat up, and maintain MOA accuracy longer. I haven’t really tested the fluted ones yet, but I’m sure they cool even better. |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 7:53:16 AM EDT
[#24]
 My jaw dropped and stayed on the floor while I was reading this!! I finally settled down when you said you added a little meat and that the fluting might help even more... I'm going to rig a 120mm case fan from my computer to draw air out. It'll get power from an airsoft battery hidden in an OTAL i'll have up top!!
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Posted: 3/30/2005 10:26:41 AM EDT
[#25]
Speaking of the SS barrel heat issue I was wondering why no one makes some 4150 steel, chrome lined match barrels.
I know it can be done, FN's SPR bolt rifle has a chrome lined match barrel and that rifle can shoot! I know I'd definitely want one if they were ever produced. Such a barrel be able to fire longer strings before the heat effected the accuracy not to mention it should be lighter than SS and be more durable in extreme conditions. Here's what we need someone to make. 1. Cold hammer forged 4150, 16" medium contour match barrel. 2. 1/8" or 1/7" twist 3. Wylde chamber 4. Fully chrome lined. 5. M4 barrel extension. 6. Mid-length gas system. So who's going to start making them?  Hey, it could happen! I remember just a couple of years ago other than Colt$$ there were no 16" 1/7 barrels to be found, now it looks like they are very common and easy to find...  |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 10:40:08 AM EDT
[#26]
.
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Posted: 3/30/2005 10:42:19 AM EDT
[#27]
Well, in general "chrome-lined" and "match barrel" have not been compatible. I think now the chrome-lining technology has matured enough that near match grade accuracy (and plenty accurate for this application) is possible in a chrome-lined barrel. I'm kinda surprised the SPRs are SS barrels, and also that they're as heavy a profile as they are.
Except for the Wylde chamber that sounds just like the "giffman" group buy barrel. They're being made by CMMG, so I guess they're not technically "match grade" and I doubt they're hammer forged but I don't think any AR barrels are (and I don't think it matters anyway). I think the above barrel, on an upper with a FF rail and an ACOG w/BAC on a lower with a KAC trigger would be perfect for the observer in a sniper team and also for the designated marksman in a regular squad. The same barrel in govt. profile and with an Aimpoint or EOTech would be better than the M4 for most other soldiers too. |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 10:55:20 AM EDT
[#28]
Steve, IIRC, the barrels used on the FN SPR's are made from the same blanks as the M240. If this is correct I don't see why they wouldn't be able to maintain their accuracy better than a SS barrel in semi-auto mode. Of course we'd need a 5.56/.223 AR15 version of that barrel to test this theory out but that would the fun part of it, right?
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Posted: 3/30/2005 10:59:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Mike_L,
Yes the specs of the Giffman barrel are pretty close but you're correct and they are not cold hammer forged nor are they made from match barrel blanks and they have a 5.56 chamber. As far as AR cold hammer forged barrels I believe Diemaco uses them and I also believe the short lived HK-M4 had a cold hammer forged barrel. Steve/Adco will also be getting these barrels maybe he'll put one through the ringer and let us know well it does on the long shots. BTW, I'm also in on the Giffman group buy and waiting patiently to complete my new carbine.  Here's a teaser pic of my new carbine, currently wating on a LMT/Lauer lower and the barrel...   |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 11:11:41 AM EDT
[#30]
.
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Posted: 3/30/2005 11:32:49 AM EDT
[#31]
Steve sent me pictures of the targets he used while breaking in the barrel on my upper. the shot groups were the size of a nickel.
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Posted: 3/30/2005 11:37:44 AM EDT
[#32]
denny has barrels like this (except for being chrome lined) for sale on the EE: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=231377 i just bought one from him. great guy to do business w/. |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 11:51:04 AM EDT
[#33]
tag
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Posted: 3/30/2005 12:04:13 PM EDT
[#34]
I don't understand what you're hoping to get out of this topic. The SEALs already told you that they hate the SPR and got what they wanted with the so-called recon rifle. Asking here is only going to get you responses from the "AR-15 gadget-mongers out there who have some insatiable need to copy, clone, and comment on SOF weapons systems," as "Frogman" so succinctly put it. Is that the proof of concept that you're looking for?
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Posted: 3/30/2005 12:21:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Maybe a little harmless discussion?
Do you always stir up crap when you read something you don't understand (you say you don', no offense) ?? 
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Posted: 3/30/2005 12:29:59 PM EDT
[#36]
There's a lot of intelligent AR builders here and I started this thread to get their thoughts on the Recce carbine and the SPR. Also whether or not the SEAL's like the SPR is not the main issue we're discussing here. As others have mentioned earlier it has nothing to do with copying the HSLD types or their gear. We like to look at their selection of gear because we don't have the luxury or the money to test everything under the sun to find out what works best. If you don't like this thread and have nothing to contribute to it then why bother posting?  |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 12:36:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Or, we recently sold 90% of our AR15 rifles, uppers and more so that we could drop $1K on an upper built with most of these features and are interested to hear what people have to say about those features whether good or bad.
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Posted: 3/30/2005 12:36:14 PM EDT
[#38]
I like the idea of the RECCE. When money allows, I would like to build one.
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Posted: 3/30/2005 12:37:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Being one of the aforementioned -mongers, or -mongos, as it is in my case, I would ask the same. BFD what we talk about here. |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 1:44:30 PM EDT
[#40]
I am happy to be able to find a topic that actually interesting and is reasonably void of the trolls...
And tag. |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 1:57:43 PM EDT
[#41]
JC_, why don't you post a picture of your awesome SPR? You have one sweet Mod1.
That might shut up the morons.
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Posted: 3/30/2005 2:00:53 PM EDT
[#42]
I CAN NOT BELIEVE THIS SHIT. Of the literally THOUSANDS of stupid, inane, pointless things posted on this board HOURLY, theres actually a decent thread discussing of all things, AR15s and people are BITCHING about it and trying to shut down the discussion.
I fucking give up. |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 2:42:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Lumpy - I hear you.
This is a techinical forum - and some good questions are being asked and answered. I dont see anyone asking for pics from Ninja Turtle Attack Squadron Z using these (yet) so lets please keep this one relevant. |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 3:05:17 PM EDT
[#44]
tag
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Posted: 3/30/2005 3:39:05 PM EDT
[#45]
KevinB, Have you tested/used the NXS 1-4X or S&B? I'm particularly interested in the NXS FC-2 reticle. One of the issues I have with the Luepy MR/T (that doesn't exist with the NXS 2.5-10x at least in my testing and use) is using it as an ocluded (spl) sight with the front cap on. The NXS (CR-MilDot in my case) works very well in this mode, the Luepy was less than notable. This is one of the reasons I have a BU M2 for my non-ACOG scoped weapons as noted in a prior post. Neither has enough brightness in all lighting conditions without the front cover on. The MR/T flat didn't work at all, at least for me. This one of the reasons I favor the ACOG for X4 with BAC or lower. ETA: This germain for a RECCE just to keep this on track. |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 3:43:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Sad, ain't it? |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 3:45:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Yes it is. Let's try and ignore the crap. We are finally getting some meaningful threads here. |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 3:53:31 PM EDT
[#48]
PC.
I have experimented with both the NF 1-4 and the S&B SD. In fact I am planning on mounting the NF on my 16" URX gun. The SB was nice and if it where cheaper I might have gone for it instead. I have the 2.5-10 (mildot) on my AR10 Mk11 clone - and I noticed what you said about the Occluded usage potential - which was good since in the Larue mount my previous CQB backup idea of the DR Optic was a no go like it had it on the ARMS #35. |
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Posted: 3/30/2005 4:00:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Tagged to continue with AR discussion.
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Posted: 3/30/2005 4:46:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Tagged.
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