Last I heard the project is still running along and will be for the next bit.

Combat Diver, when you say, "I'm going to say that it ain't dead yet," do you mean it's still alive as a commercial, civilian cartridge whereby certain vendors, like Barrett, can sell to the military, or do you mean it's also alive as an item being procured through official military purchasing in the sense that it will have an "M" designation?

John

---------------
6.5 Grendel: AR10 Soul in an AR15 Body
www.65grendel.com

Quoted: Combat Diver, when you say, "I'm going to say that it ain't dead yet," do you mean it's still alive as a commercial, civilian cartridge whereby certain vendors, like Barrett, can sell to the military, or do you mean it's also alive as an item being procured through official military purchasing in the sense that it will have an "M" designation? John --------------- 6.5 Grendel: AR10 Soul in an AR15 Body www.65grendel.com

Quoted: Quoted: Combat Diver, when you say, "I'm going to say that it ain't dead yet," do you mean it's still alive as a commercial, civilian cartridge whereby certain vendors, like Barrett, can sell to the military, or do you mean it's also alive as an item being procured through official military purchasing in the sense that it will have an "M" designation? John --------------- 6.5 Grendel: AR10 Soul in an AR15 Body www.65grendel.com

JTC, I dont' get your post....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Combat Diver, when you say, "I'm going to say that it ain't dead yet," do you mean it's still alive as a commercial, civilian cartridge whereby certain vendors, like Barrett, can sell to the military, or do you mean it's also alive as an item being procured through official military purchasing in the sense that it will have an "M" designation? John --------------- 6.5 Grendel: AR10 Soul in an AR15 Body www.65grendel.com hr JTC, I dont' get your post....

Broken record.

Perhaps I'm a little harsh on Grendelizor, but he seems to wish an early death on the 6.8SPC. I hear people saying that the military is done with it and I hear just as many say it isn't. Nobody can provide "Proof" one way or the other. If the military kills it, fine. Lets see what us civies can do with it.

Grendelizor, I am happy that you found your perfect cartridge. It's just not for me. I do not trust fragmentation on anything other than varmints. I like penetration. (Don't go there guys!)

JTC,

6.5 ought to have more penetration that 6.8SPC.   It has bullets of a higher SD and ultimately that's what you need for penetration.

-z

Noted.

I not saying that the 6.8 is better, nor the best. Hell, I ain't shot it yet! (27 more days) But I like my toys. With Remington producing the 6.8, I can shoot without reloading if I want. Sometimes there is no time for reloading. To be honest, I believe that you can't beat a 12Ga. for up-close work. I also believe that large calibers with heavy bullets are better. But I also like toys. The more calibers the better.

JTChance wrote: "I hear people saying that the military is done with it and I hear just as many say it isn't."

Because I hear the same thing and even though my sources have proved to be reliable so far, when I hear someone say something authoritatively without qualifications I try to check them out to see if they're for real. That's why I sound like a broken record. I'm just trying to sort it out the facts.

Your next point: "[Grendelizor] seems to wish an early death on the 6.8SPC."

Hmmm . . . how can I sort that one out? As a gun nut and military buff, I guess I'm emotionally involved because of my  concern that our troops get the best stuff. I don't know why I am concerned, I just am. Psychoanalyze me all you want. I would feel personally annoyed, even offended, if I felt they were getting second-rate equipment. Don't ask me why I care, because I'm a nothing to the big picture; it doesn't affect me personally. I'm your average civilian, I got a job and a wife and kids and I hunt and shoot guns and I mind my own business. I guess I'll chalk up my concern to some kind of patriotism. (I should mention that even though I created a website dedicated to the 6.5 Grendel, I am in no way profiting from my advocacy. I hope to make money in the future off it, but right now, I'm not too worried about it. Is that enough disclosure?)

Anyway, I'd been hoping for a long time that the military would adopt an intermediate cartridge along the lines of the very nice .280 British, which was passed over in the 1950s for political reasons. When I first heard of the 6.8 SPC from Dr. Gary K. Roberts' advocacy of it on Tactical Forums, I was excited. However, I quickly realized its deficiencies when, soon after, I heard about the 6.5 Grendel. So I jumped on the Grendel bandwagon and have been riding it ever since.

Do I wish the 6.8 SPC an early death? I never wished it to win, of course, but I became a bit less "live and let live" and slightly antagonistic toward it when Gary Paul Johnston started going out of his way to lie about the 6.5 Grendel in the gun rags, and also when my research (like a broken record) exposed that a lot of the advocacy of the 6.8 SPC was exaggerations, and smoke and mirrors to try and somehow "push" adoption upon the military. That kind of crap really annoyed me. I think some in the military were a little annoyed, also.

So I've been following developments on both cartridges very closely, and if I sound like a broken record, it's in my search for the facts. I jumped on the 6.5 Grendel because I really do think it's "the heat," not because I've got a warehouse full of the things or because I've already spent a zillion dollars advertising the thing and I have to unload it somehow. I had the luxury of being objective, wanting only the best, and now I've cast my lot with the Grendel. And I won't be happy until the military adopts it as the next multipurpose cartridge for assault rifles, light and medium machine guns, and light sniping rigs, replacing both the 5.56 and 7.62! Is that enough disclosure?

John

---------------------
6.5 Grendel: AR10 Soul in an AR15 Body
www.65grendel.com

Quoted: JTChance wrote: "I hear people saying that the military is done with it and I hear just as many say it isn't." Because I hear the same thing and even though my sources have proved to be reliable so far, when I hear someone say something authoritatively without qualifications I try to check them out to see if they're for real. That's why I sound like a broken record. I'm just trying to sort it out the facts. Your next point: "[Grendelizor] seems to wish an early death on the 6.8SPC." Hmmm . . . how can I sort that one out? As a gun nut and military buff, I guess I'm emotionally involved because of my  concern that our troops get the best stuff. I don't know why I am concerned, I just am. Psychoanalyze me all you want. I would feel personally annoyed, even offended, if I felt they were getting second-rate equipment. Don't ask me why I care, because I'm a nothing to the big picture; it doesn't affect me personally. I'm your average civilian, I got a job and a wife and kids and I hunt and shoot guns and I mind my own business. I guess I'll chalk up my concern to some kind of patriotism. (I should mention that even though I created a website dedicated to the 6.5 Grendel, I am in no way profiting from my advocacy. I hope to make money in the future off it, but right now, I'm not too worried about it. Is that enough disclosure?) Anyway, I'd been hoping for a long time that the military would adopt an intermediate cartridge along the lines of the very nice .280 British, which was passed over in the 1950s for political reasons. When I first heard of the 6.8 SPC from Dr. Gary K. Roberts' advocacy of it on Tactical Forums, I was excited. However, I quickly realized its deficiencies when, soon after, I heard about the 6.5 Grendel. So I jumped on the Grendel bandwagon and have been riding it ever since. Do I wish the 6.8 SPC an early death? I never wished it to win, of course, but I became a bit less "live and let live" and slightly antagonistic toward it when Gary Paul Johnston started going out of his way to lie about the 6.5 Grendel in the gun rags, and also when my research (like a broken record) exposed that a lot of the advocacy of the 6.8 SPC was exaggerations, and smoke and mirrors to try and somehow "push" adoption upon the military. That kind of crap really annoyed me. I think some in the military were a little annoyed, also. So I've been following developments on both cartridges very closely, and if I sound like a broken record, it's in my search for the facts. I jumped on the 6.5 Grendel because I really do think it's "the heat," not because I've got a warehouse full of the things or because I've already spent a zillion dollars advertising the thing and I have to unload it somehow. I had the luxury of being objective, wanting only the best, and now I've cast my lot with the Grendel. And I won't be happy until the military adopts it as the next multipurpose cartridge for assault rifles, light and medium machine guns, and light sniping rigs, replacing both the 5.56 and 7.62! Is that enough disclosure? hn --------------------- 6.5 Grendel: AR10 Soul in an AR15 Body www.65grendel.com

You are a patriot, of that I have no doubt and will not question.

To be honest, I believe the bigger the caliber, the heavier the bullet, the better. But life doesn't always work that way. The 6.8mm 115gr. bullet doesn't fit that bill. But it is a far cry better than a .22 caliber. As is the 6.5mm. But the 6.5 ain't gonna happen. So you get what you can.

Grendelizer, just checked out your website. You are a dedicated soul. Best of luck to ya my man!

Grendelizor, before they settled on the 6.8 diameter, they tested a 6.5 quite extensively and decided it was not up to the task at hand.

Combat_Diver is SF in the sandbox. If he says guns are coming to him, it means its still being issued.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: JAG ruled on the projectile, we know that much.  The poor showings at SHOT and Blackwater appear to be the final nail. HFG What do you mean by poor showings, poor like they performed poorly or poor as in little interest.  Just curious. Thanks The weapons failed to perform as everyone had expected.  They proved themselves to be very unreliable.   HFG

Are you talking about the 6.8SPC demo put on by Barrett and Remington?  Were you there? I was and there were not that many stoppages. Certainily no more than you would see at an AR15.com get togather.

Those guns, and the ammo were preproduction samples. They were run fast & hard that day. I fired more rounds than most that day and had One failure, the bolt closed on an empty mag. All said i thought the 6.8SPC faired pretty well that day.

I'm not rushing to defend the 6.8SPC. i've often stated I would rather see a 5.56mm simply necked up to 6.5 mm availble commercially, so i can use my existing bolts and magazines. But i was at SHOT 2004, I fired the 6.8SPC, and it performed pretty well IMO. there are plenty of "issues" with the 6.8SPC but reliability at SHOT wasnt one of them.

Quoted: THE "POOR SHOWINGS" REFERENCED WERE THE BARRETT 6.8 SPC'S...

Were you there? The Barretts were fed Remington Factory ammo from PRI mags. They performed as well as any self loading firearm could be expected to under the same circumstances.

Quoted: Do I wish the 6.8 SPC an early death? I never wished it to win, of course, but I became a bit less "live and let live" and slightly antagonistic toward it when Gary Paul Johnston started going out of his way to lie about the 6.5 Grendel in the gun rags...

I dont read gun rags, but it was clear GPJ was full of the brown stuff from several statements he made at the demo. Even with the gear in front of him, even with the developers there, he still spouted of several bogus statements. The Barrett guys politely ignored him rather than publicly correcting & embarrasing him, which was a mistake.

Are you talking about the 6.8SPC demo put on by Barrett and Remington?  Were you there? I was and there were not that many stoppages. Certainily no more than you would see at an AR15.com get togather. Those guns, and the ammo were preproduction samples. They were run fast & hard that day. I fired more rounds than most that day and had One failure, the bolt closed on an empty mag. All said i thought the 6.8SPC faired pretty well that day. I'm not rushing to defend the 6.8SPC. i've often stated I would rather see a 5.56mm simply necked up to 6.5 mm availble commercially, so i can use my existing bolts and magazines. But i was at SHOT 2004, I fired the 6.8SPC, and it performed pretty well IMO. there are plenty of "issues" with the 6.8SPC but reliability at SHOT wasnt one of them.

This is a classic example of commercial vs military usage.  The weapons failed to deliver pure and simple and at a highly organized function under the best possible conditions - what happens in a SHTF situation, the weapon lets you down - no more need be said.  

Believe me, I'm a fan of the round but the power impulse is not suited to the AR platform - it is still not right and from that perspective it goes a way to explaining why the Army is not proceeding with it.  
HFG

WTF is a power impulse? And how does it not work in an AR? And did you miss the part where AR15fan says it performed as well as a 5.56 AR would under the same circumstances?

I respectfully think you missed the point - I'm not talking about commercial weapons, I'm talking about military weapons and if you are demo-ing a new military weapon it better work each and every time - these did not.  

The power impulse I mentioned relates to the burn characteristics of the propellant, the case volume, the design of the projectile etc which appears not to be ideally suited to the direct impingement system of the AR platform.  Maybe it's fixable, but it's not reliable at the moment and that's all that counts.  
HFG

Quoted: Are you talking about the 6.8SPC demo put on by Barrett and Remington?  Were you there? I was and there were not that many stoppages. Certainily no more than you would see at an AR15.com get togather. Those guns, and the ammo were preproduction samples. They were run fast & hard that day. I fired more rounds than most that day and had One failure, the bolt closed on an empty mag. All said i thought the 6.8SPC faired pretty well that day. I'm not rushing to defend the 6.8SPC. i've often stated I would rather see a 5.56mm simply necked up to 6.5 mm availble commercially, so i can use my existing bolts and magazines. But i was at SHOT 2004, I fired the 6.8SPC, and it performed pretty well IMO. there are plenty of "issues" with the 6.8SPC but reliability at SHOT wasnt one of them.   This is a classic example of commercial vs military usage.  The weapons failed to deliver pure and simple and at a highly organized function under the best possible conditions - what happens in a SHTF situation, the weapon lets you down - no more need be said.

Highly organized? A stack of preloaded mags, a few rifles and about 20 shooters, firing the guns semi & auto as fast as they could swap mags.

Were you there? If you were, than I guess your perception of the event is different than mine. But you sound like you are just repeating something you read in a magazine.

Any demo on a range is highly organized!  A fire-fight is not.  Don't ever compare the two and yes, I was there, early on.  
HFG

Quoted: All I can tell you is that we were informed that the JAG had killed it about two weks ago.

Pretty pathetic when the damned lawyers have the last word on the nation's warfighting equipment.

As bad as when they are influencing targeting.

The politicians were bad enough.

Quoted: Any demo on a range is highly organized!  A fire-fight is not.  Don't ever compare the two and yes, I was there, early on.   HFG

Well, in a firefight, you have your gun, a stack of mags in your LBV, and yourself to shoot it. I don't understand how this is different.

Quoted: Quoted: Any demo on a range is highly organized!  A fire-fight is not.  Don't ever compare the two and yes, I was there, early on.   HFG Well, in a firefight, you have your gun, a stack of mags in your LBV, and yourself to shoot it. I don't understand how this is different.

No Comment!  
HFG

Here's some more data FWIW..

I was at the Rocky Mtn 3Gun match in Raton NM this weekend (it was awesome - report will be posted in a day or two).   I heard two things about 6.8SPC:

One was from someone who heard it second-hand, that Remington was about to squelch 6.8SPC -- this sounds like the same rumor others have posted here.

The other was from an older guy on the AMU's Action Shooting Team (I don't remember his name right now, unfortunately).  He mentioned that although he had not had problems putting people down with 77gr 5.56, he thought 6.8SPC was "four star" and wanted to see more of it for its lethality.  It was him or another guy from the AMU that mentioned a 5th SFG guy who had used it extensively in culling deer.  He didn't mention anything about it being canceled, but I didn't think to ask specifically at that time.

-z

If it is dead, I think it all comes down to logistics - we're at war, and we have a lot of 5.56 barrels and ammo.
6.8 as a superior cartridge - that is pretty evident.  But our military has been gutted for years and the logistics aren't there yet

Thats good to hear Brou, but at least if it was dead we could get some ammo for it!

My thoughts on this topic have come full circle.  

If the military really had dropped it, Remington would be unloading the ammo on civvies by now.

And I don't buy the idea that Remington is dropping 6.8mm SPC, either.  Winchester and Remington come out with new calibers all the time.  They keep them on the market for a few years and see how they catch on.  If they don't, THEN they drop them quietly, but not until it's had at least a few years run.  6.8mm SPC hasn't even hit consumer store shelves yet!  Even if two years from now, if Remington drops it, the components will stay around for years, and sometimes a good one gets repackaged/re-purposed/re-marketed.

With all the possible mid-range calibers out there for AR's, and none of them dominating, it's a wide-open market.  Whether the Army accepts the cartridge (at the same level as .45 ACP) doesn't really matter.  We know it is very unlikely it will be considered equal (logistical support-wise) to 5.56 or 7.62.  But on paper, and given the team that built it, it looks like a great cartridge.

It will be worth the wait, you just watch.

This has been very interesting to read.  

Who the heck is this hip fired gun character?  And Wes, I thought you had guys in country with it?  Is that what you say?  Sandbox?  Whatever.

Regardless of what the scuttlebut is here, I hope it stays.  I think it is the appitomy of a mid range caliber.  I like the 5.56 also.  But that said, I think I'd like this one even better.  I'm just a shooter and hunter so I'm leaning more towards a bolt gun.  So even if the military cancels it, I'd give it a whirl.  It's the next caliber on my list.

grendolizer, don't get me wrong, the 6.5 grendel is probably cool but in my opinion, it's a battle rifle caliber.  Not an assault gun.  What velocity are you getting with a 140 grain bullet?  And what length barrel?  Plus that shoulder is so steep and sharp.  I don't know.  I'm sure it feeds great but doesn't seem like it leaves much room for error.  Dirt and etc.  But I'm not saying it's a bad round.  I hope it goes too, but for us civilians, it's a specialty round yet too.  Seein's how no manufacture has adopted it.  Remington at least has their name on the 6.8.  I'm not saying they can't change their mind, I'm just saying if they don't, it'll be good for the round.  But, not all rounds stick.  Look at the 6mm rem.  It's hotter than the .243.  But remmy built their guns with too slow a twist and the rest is history.  Time will only tell what happens.  What concerns me is that even if remmy does go ahead with it, and it's not adopted by the military, most hunters wont know what to do with it unless they put a soft point in there right quick!!!!.  "MARGE, WHAT'S AN OTM? (spitoing), I DON'T KNOW EARL, IS THAT SOME KIND OF NEW TREE STAND?"  I'm not trying to be mean but alot of hunters are not as educated about bullet construction and such as the guys on this sight are.  You get what I mean?  As civilians it may have a chance as a competition round but exactly what kind?  Silhouettes maybe.  If it knocks them over at 500 meters.  Bench rest?  maybe.  But like someone said, them snipers really like their .308. Carbine courses, yeaah baby.

Well just my 2 cents.

According to Paul, the 115gr can make 2820fps from a 18" barrel.  This is 324PF, while USPSA/IPSC only requires 320PF for "Major" scoring.    This could revolutionize rifle shooting in IPSC once we get our hands on the right powder.

-z

Quoted: 6.8mm SPC hasn't even hit consumer store shelves yet!

Which is one of the most troubling indicators of it's demise. Since it's was public introduction was 8 months ago.

jtac, I know it's a .270 bullet but they say the 130's are too long for the case.  Now if you're reloading there may be some room to play with a bolt gun but if you're not the options start to taper off.  I'm not worried about there being enough bullets, I'm worried that they won't put one in there.  The vmax is good if hornady would load it.  Or anyone else for that matter.  Remington has that new 115 grain for the managed recoil, which would probably work.  But as of yet, the only listings are two match bullets and a fmj.  You see my point?  If they want to get deer hunters they're going to have to put a "hunting" bullet in it.   It would take too much to educate the general public that a match bullet will "fragment" and kill just as good (or better).  I get enough greif on this site about that from the hunters when considering a .223 for deer.  Heck even doc roberts agreed with a guy named mad dog on tactical forums that "the quickest way to kill is to leave a big gaping exit hole for blood to gush out."   I think the "quickest way is to get a bullet that will fragment totally, yet penetrate enough and make like a blender on the insides.  The 6.8 loaded with the vmax or the 115's would do just that though.  At least I'm pretty certain it would, from what I've read.  But who am I kidding, it's all speculation for me, at this point.  Well, so it goes.

So they sell the 115gr OTM and label the box "For Hunting".   I heard from a guy in the AMU that many deer have been taken DRT with the 6.8 already.

-z

About hunting deer with .223 - I agree but remember, in some places the local dogs are larger than the local deer.

Quoted: About hunting deer with .223 - I agree but remember, in some places the local dogs are larger than the local deer.

True.  "Deer" can mean anything from 50 pound does to 200 pound plus monster bucks...

Hey - what's with all the debate?

Hornady had a bullet for this that would be -perfect-, and yeah.. I think at one time they made it in 277.  I still buy them for 7mm-08.

ROUND NOSE.

Round nose?  Yep.  Round nose.  Expands better at lower velocities.  More reliable expansion through tougher tissue and even bone.  Easier to make a 'tough' bullet that still performs.  Slower but still sufficient for deer in 277 at 100+gr.  Also better in box mags, typically.  I think the 'round' nose in 277 dia wouldn't be big enough to cause a jamming issue, rather I bet it'd slide right in.

BC?  Nothing to cheer about but nothing to get upset about either.

A Barnes X would be good, too if you could keep your loads hot in a longer bbl rifle (20" or so given the numbers I've seen so far).

We need to convince  Barnes to make another run of the old 100gr X Bullet -- I secured a stash of about 350 of them.  It should be faster than the 115gr, but penetrate as well or better in game.

I don't believe that the military has canceled the 6.8spc...
I just spoke with a customer relations guy at Remington and he said that he doesn't think that the 6.8 ammo will be available to civilians until after the first of the year because the military is buying up everything.
He said that over 150,000,000 (!!!) rounds have already been sent to Uncle Sam.  I find that hard to believe, but that's what he said.hock.gif
He also said that they haven't even started with hollow points for hunting...
I'm just repeating what I heard from Remington.

O Gawd! I'm trying not to comment, but fer cryin' out loud! Let's forget that the Army themselves say they are not buying 6.8 SPC.

Let's try a different line of reasoning: If it's true (it is) that the military is scrambling to produce enough 5.56, how is it they're diddling around buying up a ton of unofficial ammo for some unofficial guns in a completely different cartridge?

Or let's try this: If every 6.8 SPC gun uses 10,000 rounds, we then divide the total by that amount (or whatever) to estimate 15,000 6.8 SPC guns in service. Has Barrett made that many guns? I'm sure there's a Barrett VP who would want us all to think so who will say and do anything to make sales!

Or let's try this: Even if Barrett made 5,000 guns and sold them for $1,000 each, that would be $5,000,000. Wouldn't that kind of buy have to go to a more formal and open bidding process?

Gawd A-mighty! Keep digging yourselves a deep hole boys, yer gonna need it to bury that stinking pile of taurine feces that's building up.

John

--------------------
6.5 Grendel: AR10 Soul in an AR15 Body
www.65grendel.com

Quoted: O Gawd! I'm trying not to comment, but fer cryin' out loud! Let's forget that the Army themselves say they are not buying 6.8 SPC. Let's try a different line of reasoning: If it's true (it is) that the military is scrambling to produce enough 5.56, how is it they're diddling around buying up a ton of unofficial ammo for some unofficial guns in a completely different cartridge? Or let's try this: If every 6.8 SPC gun uses 10,000 rounds, we then divide the total by that amount (or whatever) to estimate 15,000 6.8 SPC guns in service. Has Barrett made that many guns? I'm sure there's a Barrett VP who would want us all to think so who will say and do anything to make sales! Or let's try this: Even if Barrett made 5,000 guns and sold them for $1,000 each, that would be $5,000,000. Wouldn't that kind of buy have to go to a more formal and open bidding process? Gawd A-mighty! Keep digging yourselves a deep hole boys, yer gonna need it to bury that stinking pile of taurine feces that's building up. John -------------------- 6.5 Grendel: AR10 Soul in an AR15 Body www.65grendel.com

First of all. The 6.8 SPC is for Special Forces only. 5.56 will still remain the main assault rifle. Second of all, you refuse to offer any source or info to substantiate your claims.
Third, if you didn't sound like a damn carpet-bagger all the time, people might take you a little more seriously!

I don't expect to be taken seriously unless my reasoning is sound and my intel proves correct. Time will tell, will it not? Am I supposed to take these guys seriously?

John

P.S. I'm trying not to look, but it's like trying not to gawk at a train wreck!

--------------
6.5 Grendel: AR10 Soul in an AR15 Body
www.65grendel.com

Quoted: who exactly is it you think is LYING?

I, for one, am pretty sure that the Remington rep who reportedly said they have delivered 150 MILLION rounds to Uncle Sam is shoveling BS with this thing:

I heard they will load and ship 7 million rounds this year.

Jason, I reacted to the 150 million-round story because, yes, I think the Remington guy is lying. OK, maybe "lying" is too strong a word. Perhaps he's misinformed. How would he personally know how many rounds they've produced? He's just repeating what someone told him, and what someone told that someone. But where did they get that figure from? Someone, somewhere, knows the truth and yet distorts it. That's lying. Maybe, just maybe, the story's true? I doubt it, for reasons already mentioned.

Below is another email from another Remington employee that I first saw posted at The High Road forum:

"Here is the latest poop on the 6.8 cartridge. This information comes from a Remington employee who's name I still have to keep private. From an email dated 6 July 2004...

"The 6.8 thing is moving along but slowly. The only significant ammo we have sold has been to Barrett as far as I know. There is a run going on now I believe and I believe it will be commercially available but we already have a significant amount of orders mainly from distributors.

"The pressure problem (along with some others) have for the most part been fixed/addressed. The round is NOT being used overseas by anyone despite what you might read. DOD JAG had given a preliminary approval for use of the round but then it was found that the round was not legal so it was withdrawn. SOCOM has announced that it is not interested in another caliber as has the Infantry center. There is talk by all of the gun writers but that is about it. The FBI tested it and it was rumored that they loved it but we haven't heard anything back.

"Taken from olympic arms forum, written by Rattler."

So I see inconsistencies. In about March, Gary Paul Johnston writes in Soldier of Fortune that Remington "can't produce it fast enough." In July we get the above email from Remington saying it's moving along "slowly." Doesn't add up. The same employee from Remington writes: "The round is NOT being used overseas by anyone despite what you might read." And yet people imply it's all over the Middle East. Doesn't add up. Earlier in the year a Barrett VP is bragging (on Tactical Forums) about how they had a 6.8 SPC demo and everybody loved it and they were all shooting it accurately at 500 yards. A couple weeks later when they are SPECIFICALLY invited to Blackwater to SPECIFICALLY take part in the armored glass challenge and SPECIFICALLY invited to have a friendly competition with the 6.5 Grendel, they decline and say they don't have the right ammo. Doesn't add up. So I see lots of inconsistencies.

People know the truth. The Barrett VP knows how many they've produced, whether it's enough to eat 150 million rounds. Some Remington ammo production VP somewhere knows the truth. Many industry players know what's been told them by SOCOM, as a guy named Kel has posted elsewhere. Most people aren't purposely lying, I suppose. They're only repeating what they've been told. If they're being lied to, then they're victims of a misinformation campaign by those who have something at stake. In these cases, you usually want to follow the money to get to the bottom of things. Who stands to gain? Does Remington? Does Barrett? Who stands to gain? It ain't me.

John

-------------
6.5 Grendel: AR10 Soul in an AR15 Body
www.65grendel.com