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Posted: 12/18/2003 7:24:49 PM EDT
What does everyone think of the robinson arms M96?

Most people regard the AK 47 as one of the most reliable rifles in the worst kinds of adverse situations (although no rifle is perfect). Most will also say that the AR has well thought out ergonomics (although no rifle is perfect). Ex- one of the fastest, easiest mag releases; bolt hold open after the last round; relatively easy to use safety; as well as a bolt release button.

Also, on this forum, there has been interest in a gas piston upper for an AR lower, And rumors are circulating about an H&K designed gas piston upper for the AR.

Now, the M96 "looks" to be a synthesis... is has a gas piston upper. A lower which will accept ar mags. It has the same mag release (easily actuated by the trigger finger). A safety similar to the ar's. The bolt does lock back after the last round.

Now that facts are out of the way, allow me to SPECULATE..... This thing MIGHT be AK reliable, and if it is, we might have a nice hybrid rifle... the best of the AK, and the best (to me anyway, being the ergonomics) of the AR.

so... does any one have one? like it? heard about it other than the web site? know anything about the reliability? something.... anything.... talk to me here.

Stainless

Link Posted: 12/18/2003 10:02:54 PM EDT
Thats the only reason I havent already bought one, lack of information.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 10:10:02 PM EDT
I might be mistaken but I was lead to belive Eugene Stoner designed the M96 as well and it was used to some minor extent in Vietnam by special operations troops. Only other thing I know about them is that they're a lot more expensive then ARs...
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 10:12:46 PM EDT
[url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=172285&w=myTopicPop[/url] [url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=171822&w=searchPop[/url] [url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=170820&w=searchPop[/url] [url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=170820&w=searchPop[/url]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 10:13:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 7point62_AssAssin: I might be mistaken but I was lead to belive Eugene Stoner designed the M96 as well and it was used to some minor extent in Vietnam by special operations troops. Only other thing I know about them is that they're a lot more expensive then ARs...
View Quote
You're mistaken; the M96 looks like an earlier Stoner design but is a different rifle.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 8:58:36 AM EDT
Those links are appreciated, I think I'll pass.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 9:33:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 9:35:14 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
I got to handle one of these at my own local fun shop the other day and it was $1200 NIB. I decided not to buy but these rifles have a numbr of advantages over the OLD M-16 platform we all love... Look at the pages here and the Patent for this rifle... [url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/m96/[/url] I would love one of these some day but I have too many other bad habits to add another one to the safe at this time... Also see: [url]http://www.biggerhammer.net/patents/US05900577__.pdf[/url]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 11:29:44 AM EDT
Held one. Shot it a good bit. Love them. Cant afford one right now until I get some other things taken care of I want more. Its a very nice rifle, but it wont replace my AR's. It would be a nice one to have on hand though.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 12:00:55 PM EDT
I have had the m96 for about 6 months now, and i must tell you it is a great rifle. i payed 1000.00 on a special from cdnn (they had 8 from a dealer that went out of buisness) the m96 has had not one fte or feed, i use orlite and ar mags with no problem. the neat thing is you can adjust the gas system to drop your brass at your feet or 10ft away. the other neat deal is the removable barrel which is part of the new design--the whole gun will come apart in about 7 pcs. all field strippable with lock pins. If you want photos let me know JIMBO
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 12:13:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 12:14:57 PM EDT by knightsar]
Everything I have herd about the rife has been positive. Looking in to purchasing one myself. I know there is not many avalible. I dont think you should have to pay anymore than $1200 for one.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 12:14:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 1:52:23 PM EDT by Dano523]
Originally Posted By Stainless: Most people regard the AK 47 as one of the most reliable rifles in the worst kinds of adverse situations (although no rifle is perfect). Now that facts are out of the way, allow me to SPECULATE..... This thing MIGHT be AK reliable, and if it is, we might have a nice hybrid rifle... the best of the AK, and the best (to me anyway, being the ergonomics) of the AR.
View Quote
There’s one little detail that most people leave out when comparing rifles to the AK-47 and 74, is the design of the ammo used in the rifles. On the 7.62x39 and the 5.45 x39, the case it's self is strongly tapered. This allows the round to be extracted (more easily) once the chamber has become fouled (think wedge). The downfall to the 223 is that the cases have little taper from the neck back, which leads to extraction problem. One of the solutions to cure this problem has been to oversize the chamber on the rifles. This allows more room for the case to shrink back down after firing, but also leads to the barrels/chambers loosing accuracy due to barrel pressure blow-by at ignition (case swelling @ ignition to fill the chamber wall space). Granted that the M-96 is a sound weapon, and uses a piston action to unlock the bolt, the fact that if still uses the limited-tapered case of the 223 limits it to the conundrum between reliability, and accuracy. Bottom line is that the 5.56 Nato round was not the best round (regarding the shape of the case) for a combat weapon from the start. If the 5.56 Nato round had been designed with more taper to the case (and not based on a bolt action 222 round), then the need to oversize the chambers (auto loading chambers) would had been eliminated. This would had lead to the round being able to be used in a tighter chamber, and the standard military acceptance of a 2-3 inch MOA group would have been cut in half.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 12:45:01 PM EDT
[b]"7.65x39 and the 5.54 x39"[/b] You mean 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 correct?
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:11:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 5:12:37 PM EDT by Moe-Ron]
I own one and I think it is a fine rifle- exceptionally balanced. You have to handle and fire one to really appreciate it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 6:43:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2003 8:28:04 PM EDT by DevL]
Its FAR too heavy for what it is since its all steel with no aluminum or extensive use of polymers. The very gas piston that gives it its theoretical reliability advantage, gives it a theoretical accuracy disadvantage. The bolt release is slower than the AR15 design. While an excellent addition to a collection, there are better choices for a rifle intended for combat.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 7:10:10 PM EDT
The AK's reliablilty is far more due to the great clearances inside the reciever than the piston. If you made a direct impingment AK, it would still run forever.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 7:27:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal: The AK's reliablilty is far more due to the great [red]clearances[/red] inside the reciever than the piston. If you made a direct impingment AK, it would still run forever.
View Quote
Finally, someone that actually knows something (inreguards to AK reliability) and uses the word "clearances" not "tolerances" to describe the main reason for the AK's reliablity. [beer]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 7:51:27 PM EDT
why would the case tapering effect the reliability that much? The .223 Saigas and SAR-3s seem to run forever.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 7:56:20 PM EDT
It helps a little. In a chromed chamber, it is much less of a factor though. As long as the chamber does not become pitted, extraction should be positive with the 5.56mm. A chromed chamber should never pit.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 8:19:03 PM EDT
If you are interested in a gun that is battle proven with the attributes of the RobArm M96 I would recommend a Galil. They are both heavy, but I would trust a Galil (which is an Isreal designed AK that shoots 223) over an M96 for serious work. The M96 was supposed to have a belt-fed option but it has never came out, much to the chagrin of many who bought it for that reason. RobArm is supposedly working on a .308 that might be even more worth considering.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 9:43:49 PM EDT
It's not nearly as heavy as it looks. Looks like it should be belt fed.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 11:08:34 PM EDT
I've got one for sale here . . . [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=93&t=190988[/url]
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