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Posted: 12/15/2003 11:46:00 PM EDT
I am looking to purchase a cheaper AR15 and besides the Olympic Plinker, the next step up is $600 + shipping and is a DPMS Lite 16. Is it worth it? or should I go ahead and save up another $50 - $100 and get a Rock River / Bushmaster? Opinions please
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 11:48:41 PM EDT
DPMS is a good product. I would suggest you look at CMMG, they are a dealer of very good DPMS stuff here on the board.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 11:59:54 PM EDT
I have a total of 4 DPMS rifles and I have a "Lite16" IT is a great little rifle with a lot of bark and Fun to Plink with. DPMS makes a great Quaility rifle.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 10:56:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WVmountaineer: Opinions please
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BIY!!!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:54:46 PM EDT
In my humble opinion: I like Bushmaster better. I have had Oly, DPMS, Bushy, Armalite, Pro Ord and RRA I liked the DPMS and OLY the least...mainly based on parts interchangability and finish quality. They all shoot just fine. My $0.02
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 2:05:55 PM EDT
I have a DPMS M4 (I think it is the same rifle you are talking about- M4 barrel, chromed carrier, a1 carry handle, no muzzle brake) and I absolutely love it. I bought a preban and intended to sell the Panther, but I just can't bring myself to do it! You will hear a lot of people say "get a Bushy" but if you are seriously strapped for money and can't wait, get a DPMS, you won't be disappointed. It is definitely the smoothest cycling AR I own...
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:24:30 PM EDT
I have a bushy dissipator model and it shoots very well. But..my Franken AR has a DPMS lo-pro upper and I am very happy with it, the barrel is bushmaster and lower is OLY (i regret not getting something else though) but the DPMS products are really good, and have decent prices and fast delivery, i jus ordered some Springs and rollpins and Ejectors/Extractors to have spare parts and got them here fast.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:44:43 PM EDT
DPMS RULES!! B^) [img]http://members.cox.net/daphotoguy/DPMS_Q.jpg[/img] [img]http://members.cox.net/daphotoguy/DPMS_V.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:09:09 PM EDT
rgr that [img]http://hunt101.com/img/071203.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.dpmsinc.com/images/logo.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:07:35 PM EDT
Be warned that the Lite 16 also has a cast lower receiver, just like the plinker. I would spend a little more and get the next step up just for a forged receiver. In the long run, it will give you peace of mind. Other than that, DPMS is top notch.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 11:08:22 PM EDT
I'm not here to bash the DPMS. I'm sure each manufacturer has its fans, but the DPMS has a serious flaw that the company has not been able to address except blaming the ammunition being used. The ammunition issue would have been valid if our Colts and Bushmasters went down for the same failures, but the DPMS was the only loser. The typical failure has to do with the bolt group. Either firing pin retaining pins being bent to a point they could not be reinstallated. Cam pins snapping. Locking lug of the bolt breaking off. Bolts cracking. It's not an isolated incident and has happened with other agency weapons. If you want to use the rifle for recreational shooting, it would probably be fine. However, if you expect to put many rounds through it or plan to use it for self defense you'd be taking your chances. As with most things, you get what you pay for. Do the research. You'll be better off with a Colt.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 12:06:10 AM EDT
You will be just fine with a DPMS. However, I would spend an extra $50 and get the Classic Sixteen versus the Lite 16. Then you will have a nice forged lower. DPMS puts out very good products and have excellent customer service. Sully at Defensive Edge Training speaks very highly of DPMS rifles. With them, you get more than what you paid for.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 3:21:12 AM EDT
DPMS made the only stainless steel (Black Tefloned) lower that I could find at a reasonable price for my .458 SOCOM build (I wanted the extra weight), then Tony (Tromix) uses DPMS uppers, gas block,... all but barrel for the upper build, so DPMS must make some pretty good stuff or Tony wouldn't use it. When you are talking about a $1000 upper, I don't think that if DPMS were inferior in any way that Tony would use their stuff as the platform to build on. The only things not DPMS on my build are the lower guts (RR NM), and the barrel (sights of course are not DPMS), and I could not be more pleased with it.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 1:09:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JYF: You'll be better off with a Colt.
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Look! A one post Colt whore. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 1:53:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JYF: I'm not here to bash the DPMS. I'm sure each manufacturer has its fans, but the DPMS has a serious flaw that the company has not been able to address except blaming the ammunition being used. The ammunition issue would have been valid if our Colts and Bushmasters went down for the same failures, but the DPMS was the only loser. The typical failure has to do with the bolt group. Either firing pin retaining pins being bent to a point they could not be reinstallated. Cam pins snapping. Locking lug of the bolt breaking off. Bolts cracking. It's not an isolated incident and has happened with other agency weapons. If you want to use the rifle for recreational shooting, it would probably be fine. However, if you expect to put many rounds through it or plan to use it for self defense you'd be taking your chances. As with most things, you get what you pay for. Do the research. You'll be better off with a Colt.
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I will say that my fprp has bent a little bit, but nothing I had worried about. I always love the "buy Colt" folks- if you really want to know about Colt quality, check out the comments on the QC of their 1911's over at 1911.org. Sorry, just had to rant a bit. I get tired of people telling me my DPMS is no good because it is a less expensive rifle compared to their Colt, and that for some reason Colt is better b/c they charge more money. Rant mode off [:)]
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 2:32:36 PM EDT
FWIW, I've owned several DPMS rifles and still have a few (currently, 3 of my 19 ARs are DPMS rifles & one more was built on a DPMS lower) - they are good rifles. I prefer them to some of the other, more popular brands, but that is purely a personal choice issue - not because of problems with the others. All of the ones I've had were forged lowers, so I can't speak to that issue.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 4:51:59 PM EDT
I bought a DPMS CAR16 HBAR. It is a damn good shooter. Accurate as hell. I highly recommend their products. [beer]
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 5:20:45 PM EDT
I had a DPMS and sold it. Have been a deep depression ever since. I enjoyed it, but already had an Armalite and Bushmaster. Oh well... I used the money to build a sniper rifle.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 1:02:47 AM EDT
I have 4 DPMS Rifles you cannot go wrong with them.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 1:25:41 AM EDT
My old DPMS was a great rig once I stopped using their bolts. In the span of three months I broke two bolts at almost the exact same spot near the cam pin hole. I also had sporadic extraction problems with milsurp 5.56. Switching to a Colt bolt/carrier and sticking to 223 made the problems go away completely [:)]
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 9:09:20 PM EDT
I think I will look into purchasing a DPMS now after reading all of your replies. I'm still not sure about 16" or 20", I like them both and can't afford to buy them both at this time. Thanks for your replies
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 9:15:43 PM EDT
i've got one,and an oly i just picked i've also shot a few colt's and bushy's but i will take me d.p.m.s. over all of them seems to shoot smoother cycles great never had a failt to feed or eject and it eats anything i put in it.if i could find one in pre-ban i would trade the oly in a second.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 9:24:12 PM EDT
If I was not in love with Colt, I'd go DPMS before Bushmaster. I've owned the both, and even now have a Wilson Combat M4 upper, which is really a DPMS upper with some fine tuning that takes it longer to brake in. ( the finish is great )Now that they do chrome barrels and chambers, I'd be on the phone with CMMG.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:15:39 AM EDT
bought a DPMS complete lower assy, awhile back. The lower reciever was fine. The trigger, and hammer were fine. The bolt holdopen was an out of spec POS and had to e replced before the thing could be used. The mag release button was so wierd looking (tho it worked OK) that I had to replace it so my eyes wouldn't be offended any more. The buttstock had a 1 inch gouge in the side right out of the bubble wrap. Since I was putting an A1 stock on, it didn't bother me. Oh yeah, the safety, while functional was very crude looking. Also have a DPMS chromed bolt carrier, I picked up in a swap deal. Works OK, but crudely finished. All in all, the DP stuff works OK, but so does the Rock River stuff, and RR is a hell of a lot better finished.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 8:28:56 AM EDT
I originally came to this website to gain knowledge on choices of ammunition and the "AR15" platform. I have found that there is a lot of useful information that is shared amongst professionals and enthusiasts. This information is valuable because it comes from all levels of experience and backgrounds. Based on my experience with this company, we had at least 6 failures with the bolt group assemblies out of 40 carbines within the first year of deployment. Everyone has different "tolerances" they are willing to deal with. To me this is excessive. I don't want to see anyone get hurt because they weren't aware of a possible failure. These weapons are mechanical. Things will break. Colt has its problems as well, but nothing on the scale of the DPMS bolt group issue. Every other component of the DPMS has worked well. Offer up educated opinions on what the problem might be and how to fix it if you want to debate the posting. Replacing the bolt group with another brand sounds like a good solution. Again, I'm not here to knock DPMS because everyone has different experiences with it. Based on our experience, we haven't had the same issue with the Colt product. I extend my humble apology to anyone I may have offended, but it's a passionate issue I have with a specific component failure that might cost someone's life.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 3:14:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JYF: I originally came to this website to gain knowledge on choices of ammunition and the "AR15" platform. I have found that there is a lot of useful information that is shared amongst professionals and enthusiasts. This information is valuable because it comes from all levels of experience and backgrounds. Based on my experience with this company, we had at least 6 failures with the bolt group assemblies out of 40 carbines within the first year of deployment. Everyone has different "tolerances" they are willing to deal with. To me this is excessive. I don't want to see anyone get hurt because they weren't aware of a possible failure. These weapons are mechanical. Things will break. Colt has its problems as well, but nothing on the scale of the DPMS bolt group issue. Every other component of the DPMS has worked well. Offer up educated opinions on what the problem might be and how to fix it if you want to debate the posting. Replacing the bolt group with another brand sounds like a good solution. Again, I'm not here to knock DPMS because everyone has different experiences with it. Based on our experience, we haven't had the same issue with the Colt product. I extend my humble apology to anyone I may have offended, but it's a passionate issue I have with a specific component failure that might cost someone's life.
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And how recent were these bolt group failures? Bad batch in the distant past? Fixed by DPMS now??? I haven't heard of this problem before and mine has no problems.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 3:44:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:
Originally Posted By JYF: I originally came to this website to gain knowledge on choices of ammunition and the "AR15" platform. I have found that there is a lot of useful information that is shared amongst professionals and enthusiasts. This information is valuable because it comes from all levels of experience and backgrounds. Based on my experience with this company, we had at least 6 failures with the bolt group assemblies out of 40 carbines within the first year of deployment. Everyone has different "tolerances" they are willing to deal with. To me this is excessive. I don't want to see anyone get hurt because they weren't aware of a possible failure. These weapons are mechanical. Things will break. Colt has its problems as well, but nothing on the scale of the DPMS bolt group issue. Every other component of the DPMS has worked well. Offer up educated opinions on what the problem might be and how to fix it if you want to debate the posting. Replacing the bolt group with another brand sounds like a good solution. Again, I'm not here to knock DPMS because everyone has different experiences with it. Based on our experience, we haven't had the same issue with the Colt product. I extend my humble apology to anyone I may have offended, but it's a passionate issue I have with a specific component failure that might cost someone's life.
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And how recent were these bolt group failures? Bad batch in the distant past? Fixed by DPMS now??? I haven't heard of this problem before and mine has no problems.
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I agree! I shot my DPMS CAR 16 HBAR thousands of times and not once had a problem other than the occasional FTE with certain ammo ie. Silver Bear, Wolf and the like.... You learn what works and stick with it and it will serve you for life.... [beer]
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 2:19:36 PM EDT
DPMS deflected any responsibility by blaming the type of ammunition we were using. In the meantime, all the carbines were replaced with Colts. Eventually, all the upper receivers were replaced by DPMS, but we experienced another bolt failure with the new uppers. All carbines with new uppers were taken out of service. This has occurred in the last one to two years. Chamber pressures and bullet set back were looked at possible causes, but since the weapons are chambered for 5.56mm it shouldn't be an issue. Bullet set back doesn't seem to be an issue because our duty rounds are cannelured. Chambered rounds that were not fired and extracted during rendering safe procedures did not display any set back. This is not isolated to one agency. If your rifle works for you, great. I'm happy for you. Continue to train. I can't argue with people whose bolt groups haven't failed them. I'm not saying every single bolt group will fail. The frequency of failures is just too high to explain away. Assess what you need the weapon for and what degree of risk you are willing to accept. If your bolt group fails, replace it with one from a company that has demonstrated reliability.
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