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Posted: 12/14/2003 6:38:04 PM EDT
I'm 99% finished with my 2nd build, I'm jsut trying to narrow my barrel choices down.

I originally wanted an M4 type barrel but I really have no need for the step-cut, since I dont own a M203. My other idea is to get the Bushmaster lightweight 16" (pencil) barrel.

Any benefits to gettign the M4 type or should I just get the Bushy barrel
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 7:19:18 PM EDT
looks.. and perhaps slightly 'stiffer'
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 8:03:28 PM EDT
An HBAR will give better heat dissipation and double the life.The new M4 barrels are also heavier with cuts in the barrel only for the M203.With all the stuff that people hang of their rifles today the extra pound from a HBAR is realy nothing to deal with.If the service was using a quick detachable M203 there would be no need for guts and they would probably be using HBARS for their carbines.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 8:23:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By model927: An HBAR will give better heat dissipation and double the life.
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Double the life? Is there a source for this?
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 8:31:36 PM EDT
Troy gave an excellent response to this subject a while back. Wish I knew where it was.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 9:44:15 PM EDT
only source I can site is the fact the the military averager for barrel life is 20,000 rouns and so far I have 26,000 out of the HBAR with no apreciable wear on the throat and groups are still real good and rifling sharp so the comment is based more on my experience..Ill let you know how many rounds when it becomes unserviceable witch by judging so far will be many more rounds and also better heat dispersion means less barrel abuse and more insulation against a heat related failure and no barrel whip witch are proven with a HBAR.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 9:58:50 PM EDT
Military barrels that average about 20k rounds see MUCH more full auto and rapid fire than any of our non military rifles will ever see (thank god)! In this case, the round count has more to do with how the rounds are shot more than how many. The advantage of the M4 barrel over the lightweight is that the sooner your barrel heats up, the sooner your p.o.i. will begin to shift. M4 barrel will not heat up quite as quick as the thin barrel. Advantage of the lightweight barrel over the M4 is, well... the weight. M4 barrel is lighter than a HBAR, but not as light as the skinny barrels. An M4 or maybe even better, a fluted barrel is a good compromise between the overly heavy HBARs and the sometimes too skinny lightweight barrels. Each of these barrel types have their place. Which you should get on your gun should be dictated by the role of your rifle and what you would like to get out of it.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 10:01:53 PM EDT
I have to agree.All though I rapid fire at times its not a constant thing but I do do it.Cant wait to see how many I get out of it.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 10:36:47 PM EDT
Looks,Looks,Looks I know that a 16in. HBAR is the smarter move, but I can't get over how sweet it is to move through tight areas with a 14.5. Plus the notch brakes up the look of the barrel. In a SHTF situation Im planing on dealing with BG's at close range. Otherwise I'd forget about looks and go with what is the smart move. 16in. ( Probably a mid lenght HG )
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 10:41:15 PM EDT
I've decided to go with the M4 type barrel, seems like a better idea overall after reading your posts. Thanks
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 11:09:43 PM EDT
Get a superlight cut down to 14.5 + comp or one of the CavArms 14.5 gov profile thats light under the handguards and heavy out front. Both are chromelined and theres not a giant failure point in the bbl.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 3:07:53 AM EDT
Anyone who says that an extra pound does not mean much since the rifle is already heavy obviously does not have much on their rifle. The more stuff you put on your rifle the more attractive an ultralight rail system and barrel start to look. HBARS wont double barrel life. In fact for the vast majority you will notice nodifference in barrel life. Nor will you see a difference in accuracy 99% of the time. You will however feels the weight difference every day and the HBAR will fatigue the user and decrease the ability to make quick hits. Oh and the military would NOT have HBARs on their rifles if we used a different grenade launcher. They did in fact try a full HBAR profile for the A2 trials and found no difference in the accuracy or ability to withstand bayonetting. HBAR = dead weight on an assualt rifle. You want the thing as light as you can possibly get it and still be reliable. Top Crest, How many barrel failures have you had or personnaly seen at the M203 cut? I cannot imagine a semi auto rifle that would be capable of that. In fact the gas tube would melt first. Get the M4 if you want a barrel that will deflect less with a suppressor on it or you want it to heat up slower. If thats not an issue get an ultralight.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 7:12:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2003 7:14:40 AM EDT by giffmann]
Why not take a look at the Cav Arms 14.5" with permanently attached Cav Comp or the 16" barrels they are offering. They are cut with a Government Profile, but not the M203 cutout. That's the route I went and I'm very happy with it! [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/073234.JPG[/img] Got it from Cory at Adrenaline Arms. He gives great service and was very helpful with the many questions I had. The barrels can be picked up as a complete upper or the barrel alone. [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=176459]Adrenaline Arms[/url]
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 8:14:36 AM EDT
I own both (both are Bushmaster barrels). I much prefer the Lightweight. Handles better, has a higher MV, and shoots the same accuraccy wise.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 1:59:29 AM EDT
I have both. The M4 is for looks. I don't mount a grenade launcher on mine. It takes more heat before shifting POI. My lightweight Bushy is awesome, very lightweight as is the rest of the rifle. However, it heats up really quick. I just plink with it though, no target or benchrest shooting, so I don't care. It's the rifle I would carry a lot and shoot little. The heavy barrel takes longer to heat up, but retains more heat when cooling down so it takes longer to cool. You must ask yourself, do you need to be able to shoot longer strings before POI changes then have to wait longer, or perhaps you will carrying it a lot. Each barrel has it's place, looks aside. The skinny barrel, when cool, can be as accurate as an HBAR, though the HBAR will whip less and can be conducive to achieving increased accuracy when trying handload.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 3:29:48 PM EDT
While I love my M4s, I also like the look of the 14.5in. without the M203 cut out. I may go that route somday. Dose anyone know how much heaver it is being heavy under the HG ? KZ
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 3:56:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Originally Posted By model927: An HBAR will give better heat dissipation and double the life.
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Double the life? Is there a source for this?
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If he states it, can't he quote himself? You know, if something is stated often enough it becomes accepted as fact.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:03:30 PM EDT
To add confusion, there seems to be a "SOCOM" M4 barrel that is heavier under the handguards than the standard M4, if I remember correctly.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:44:07 PM EDT
to ELLERY HOLT and DEVL Im speaking on 13 years experience shooting ARs and shooting out barrels HBARS have always lasted longer than lighter barrels I have 3 ARs and many uppers specificaly uppers that at times only get used for rapid fire HBARS and lighter ones and I have replaced lighter ones before having to replace an HBAR.Every one always seems to be looking for scientific fact when all I go by is the testing I do my self at my own cost.The military has gonre to a heavier M4 barrel because they know what I already do,HBARS deal with the heat better even if they take longer to cool down you wont get a heat related failure with it.To DEVL who commented on fatigue and weight being an issue,I do have accesories along on my rifle but I also am very fit and work out regularly and Im sure that helps thats why an HBAR is not an issue with weight with me.Also when it comes to accesories I dont go overkill an aimpoint and a cheap night vision monocular adapted to fit my aimpoint and a fore grip mounted to my handgurads is all I need the optics for night my irons for day and the foregrip when I want better control but mainly for better weapon retention in a CQB situation,I like things fairly simple to many parts in the machine and it breaks down easier.So the facts I stated are based on experience and the 4000 rounds I go through a month with 3 rifles a fourth on the way and 3 other seperate uppers for my testing.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:51:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ellery_Holt: If he states it, can't he quote himself? You know, if something is stated often enough it becomes accepted as fact.
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He should get a "GERBLES" award from Michael Savage!
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 5:00:15 PM EDT
get both barrels, build another lower and avoid all this confusion and controvery [:)]
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:19:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2003 7:25:07 PM EDT by model927]
To MARKM since I dont know to what and who you are refering to maybe you should clarify,if you have something to say just say it!And this is only confusing and controversial to those who cant deal with a different opinion based on their own experience and not scientific fact or quoting sources.The only sources I go to is the things I have experienced.You can tell me this source that source this test or that but I prefer to see for myself based on what I know and have done,that being said I get more life out of the HBARS than lighter barrels.I have gone through 2 M4 type barrels to 1 HBAR shooting them all the same way so that tells me the superior longer lasting one would be the HBAR.Like I said I have a few other uppers to test different barrels on and a good job that supports it all.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 7:42:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 12:32:57 AM EDT
My point on barrel life was that none of us (well I should not say none) fire our semi auto AR15s full auto and abuse them. By limiting ourselves to semi auto fire the barrel temp never gets to the point that throat erosion becomes an issue. HBARs are not more accurate. It has already been demonstrated an M4 profile barrel can shoot MOA or Sub MOA groups with appropriate ammo. There is not 1/4 groups for HBARs just becasue they are thicker. The quality of a mass produced AR barrel just is not there. If we are talking match barrels then thickness and rigidity become limiting factors. As to fatigue and weight. I am 6'2" and 220 lbs. I have been an athlete and lifted all my life. I am stronger than 99% of the people I meet and I still think an HBAR is wasted weight. I have never understood the "go hit the gym" mentality of people who select unncesarily heavy gear. I wish my rifle was 3 pounds!
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 5:26:37 AM EDT
KZ45, My 14.5" barrel w/out the M203 cutout is actually government profile under the handguards, so there would be no weight penalty going that route. Take a look a the link I provided to Adrenaline Arms for some good pics of the barrel.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 6:42:47 AM EDT
Reality check here, All of us civilians will never ever ever never shoot enuff ammo thru these barrels to worry about shooting one out. In my very honest opinion. if you think that the barrel looks cool, then buy it. Do you run CQB scenerios in your house at night? Because you can't run around between the neighbors homes brandishing your AR. My Colt 16" HBAR and 20" are in excellent cond. I don't hoof them around the fields and go on 20 mile hikes. w/1000's of rds thru it and I will pass them on to my children and they would never shoot enuff to waste a barrel. I am not military, but we shoot many rounds here in FL all year round. We drive 10 miles to a field and blast away 4-500 rds at least once a month. I don't worry about shooting out no stinkin' barrel.....
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