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Posted: 12/10/2003 7:34:45 AM EDT
Is the military so set on optics that the new rifles and retrofitted existing ones will be devoid of permanently attached solid iron sights? Seems to be the trend with the AR platform and all other potential replacement weapons and phasers. Almost all of the new AR rifles and carbines are flat top. No one has use for the A2 configuration any more?
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 7:41:50 AM EDT
The Marine Corps does.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 7:48:01 AM EDT
i cant say that there isnt a use of A2 configs anymore. i still think there reather pratical in my opion. the flat tops as we call them are actuly better then other rifle that may have no front sight group, in my opion in combate for some reasion your optics get damaged. or destoryed they can always pull out the carry handle and put it right back on and be in bussness again, they may not have the nice 4x zoom of the acog. but at least they have a sight so they can aim and shoot. technoligy is a nice thing. a very nice thing, but as soon as it craps out on you. its a very very very bad thing.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 8:08:01 AM EDT
I still think the A1 configuration is the best thing going. Set it once and walk away.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 8:19:34 AM EDT
I was under the impression that the USMC has opted for the flat top 20" with removable carry handle. The army seems determined to make the flat top m4 work in all scenarios. Would the USMC have been better off with something constantly attached to the rifle (ARMS 40) rather than risk losing the carry handle?
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 9:35:37 AM EDT
I am under the impression that in most branches the REMFs will keep the standard A2 and the frontline troops will get the new toys.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 9:49:08 AM EDT
How old is the A2 arsenal? Does it need to be replaced right away or is there more service life in this AR configuration?
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 12:30:26 PM EDT
Does the xm8 have any plans for iron sights?
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:49:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By krazy_karl: How old is the A2 arsenal? Does it need to be replaced right away or is there more service life in this AR configuration?
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The Marines began issuing the M16A2 service rifle in the mid 1980's. Back then they were all brand new Colts. Using '84-'85 as a starting point, that makes the earliest M16A2's almost 20 years old. Even though they are meticulously maintained by the Marines and kept serviceable by the armorers, 20 years of hard charging use is quite a bit for any weapon to survive. I don't think all A2's need to be replaced immediately, but definetly the older ones should be. The M16A4(flat top)is being phased in as a replacement.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 3:57:54 PM EDT
I'd used a M16 during the old days sported A1 sights. When I decided to purchase my Bushmaster, had the choice between A2 or A3. I opted for thee A2 sights vs A3 flat top Ar. Just felt right to me, nothing agaianst A3 flat tops, but I wanted to keep it K.I.S.S as possilble, dont feel out gunned one bit. I feel more confident with A2 configuration. TG
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 8:54:58 AM EDT
Thanks for the information!
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 3:52:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TexasGunman: I feel more confident with A2 configuration.
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Same here! Love the simplicity of the A1 sights, but the A2 setup seems to compliment a 20" barrel perfectly.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 8:19:46 PM EDT
The only rational I see for A2 configuration is ajusting your elevation for loooong shots. I'll stick with the A1 for my <300 yard environment. But to each his own!
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 10:04:02 PM EDT
The only rational I see for any kind of irons is if you cant afford optics.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 10:26:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/11/2003 10:35:21 PM EDT by The_Cheat]
All my ARs at home (personal ones) are SP-1 and A1 uppers. Nothing against the A2/3/4 style setups, I just like the looks and simplicity of the older style uppers. Why have a forward assist? to force a dirty round into an already dirty chamber? No thanks. My newest build will have a A1 (fwd. asst.) upper just for the coolness factor.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 11:19:30 PM EDT
I have no use for a scope on my plain jane Bushmaster. That's what bolt actions are for.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 11:53:40 PM EDT
Its the new Military we are dealing with here folks (the type where a whole squad had all their Rifles Jammed at the same time) They are unable to teach real Marksmanship so they opted for the cheap easy way out- optics. I can afford optics and do own optics but i still prefer Iron sights. iron sights will never Run out of Battery, possibly will never break and will never give away your location, optics will. optics are fun at the range though, but thats about it.
Link Posted: 12/12/2003 5:10:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spiffy3: Its the new Military we are dealing with here folks (the type where a whole squad had all their Rifles Jammed at the same time) They are unable to teach real Marksmanship so they opted for the cheap easy way out- optics. I can afford optics and do own optics but i still prefer Iron sights. iron sights will never Run out of Battery, possibly will never break and will never give away your location, optics will. optics are fun at the range though, but thats about it.
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Right, You might want to add, irons are hard to line up when your life is on the line and you cannot focus on the front sight when someone is trying to kill you, you focus on the target and focusing on the target beyond a hundred or so meters will assure a miss. Optics have readdressed the ability of troops to hit. Hits with irons in combat is more about volumn of fire than precision fire.
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