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Posted: 11/27/2003 7:37:48 AM EDT
I did a yahoo search on this and found almost no info on it. Any review on it? Any webpages with info about it, reliability, accuracy, performance? Practical/Not practical,

what about performance?


In the tests conducted by Colt before they began manufacturing of the Colt Commando, they found out that a 11.5 inch barrel length was the minimal M16 barrel length that still assured proper and reliable functioning of the weapon. Shorter barrel lengths would not allowed the building of sufficient gas pressure in the barrel, resulting in acute jamming problems.


Would this not apply to the Kitty Kat?

I know Small arms review did an article on it, but i dont have that issue. What did they say about it?

Thanks for any info.

http://ritkhan.homestead.com/files/Kitty-Kat.jpg
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 8:27:57 AM EDT
I'm not sure where you found the spec'd you quoted, but Whom ever wrote it was blowing smoke out there ass. Fact: The current COLT M-4's have 14.5" barrel. The Colt XM-177E1 had a 10.5" barrel, then latter changed to 11.5 on the XM-177E2. There has never been a 16" barrel on any M-16 rifles. The M-7 or M-9 bayonet only works on the 20" and 14.5" barrels. -------------------------------------- Now on to the Kitty Kat, the MG is fun to shoot, but as far as using it as a combat weapon, due to the short barrel, the ballistic of the 5.56 round out of the very short barrel, are the same of those of a 22LR Magnum. Plus, since the very short barrel does not allow the 5.56 round to fully burn all the gun powder before the bullet leaves the barrel, what you get is a fire ball from hell out of the end of the barrel, which would temporary blinds you if you had to fire it at night. So in regards to the flashlight under the barrel on the rifle/photo you posted, it's not needed. Just burst the rifle a few times as you enter to clean a room, this will allow the fire ball out of the barrel to ignite the curtains on fire, Then with the soft back lighting of the ambers falling from the curtains, go for your pistol, because it's going to have a hell of a lot more knock down power than any round fired out of the kitty Kat. P.S. I have yet to read a review that ever stated anything bad about a rifle, even when the rifle is a known piece of shit. So unless your just planning on just looking a the photo's, I can tell you how any reviews will go," We just loved the rifle"! Oh, Welcome to AR15.com
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 8:30:03 AM EDT
It's probably effective with a 100 round drum at 10 feet or less though!
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 9:10:36 AM EDT
thanks for the welcome. The only reason i posted that picture was because it was one of the only pictures i found of the Kitty Kat. I never had intentions of ricing it up like that. This is where i got the quote about the barrel length from http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/car15/car15sawn.htm I'm the type of guy who like performance in small packages. I like small fast sports cars and i like my guns the same way. But if that sports car turns out to be a riced out Honda Civic i dont want it. If the Kitty Kat is really that crappy on ballistics i dont really see the point of owning it other then having it because you like the way it looks. I would like practicality from that small package. If i can't get that practicality from the 7.5" i might have to go to the more common 11.5" upper. I appreciate the replies on this since info is scarce on the subject.
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 9:18:35 AM EDT
They use a larger gas port on shorter barrels so it will function properly, If you have short stroking problems snip some of the buffer spring off and test fire it. You will be low on the FPS with a 7in barrel, the bullets not going to fragment. It'll just tumble through the target so you should use real heavy bullets 77gr or more if you can find um.
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 9:23:16 AM EDT
If you can file a form4 you could buy a m177 flash suppressor from colt, the ones with the baffels in them that the batf classified as a silencer. They were made to make back pressure to cycle shorter barrels, they also quieted down the gun a little.
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 9:34:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By lorenavedon: thanks for the welcome. The only reason i posted that picture was because it was one of the only pictures i found of the Kitty Kat. I never had intentions of ricing it up like that. This is where i got the quote about the barrel length from [url]http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/car15/car15sawn.htm[/url] I'm the type of guy who like performance in small packages. I like small fast sports cars and i like my guns the same way. But if that sports car turns out to be a riced out Honda Civic i dont want it. If the Kitty Kat is really that crappy on ballistics i dont really see the point of owning it other then having it because you like the way it looks. I would like practicality from that small package. If i can't get that practicality from the 7.5" i might have to go to the more common 11.5" upper. I appreciate the replies on this since info is scarce on the subject.
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An 'SCHV' weapon without the "HV" is just a .22 . 5sub 5sub
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 9:39:15 AM EDT
I have had a DPMS KittyKat™ upper (from CMMG) for over 6 months. [img]http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/135RCQC.jpg[/img] It has run 100% from day one. As a separate upper, it is far and away my favorite full-auto "toy" set-up. It would [B]not[/B] be my choice for a 'one & only' MG choice or in semi-auto. I can re-configure the M16A1 RR as a M4A1 replica that is a far better howdy gun. [img]http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/135klaw3.jpg[/img] I supposed if you had a tactical reason to fight it out in a phone booth, the KK would be a good choice. YMMV [I]-TriggerFish[/I]
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 9:46:32 AM EDT
An 'SCHV' weapon without the "HV" is just a .22 . 5sub 5sub
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very good point. What then would you consider the shortest barrel that would fit my wants (small package/good performance)? 11.5?
It has run 100% from day one. As a separate upper, it is far and away my favorite full-auto "toy" set-up. It would not be my choice for a 'one & only' MG choice or in semi-auto. I can re-configure the M16A1 RR as a M4A1 replica that is a far better howdy gun.
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what would be your choice for the 'one and only'? And how did you attatch the vertical grip on the kitty? thanks
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 9:55:19 AM EDT
If (God forbid) I was limited to only 1... [img]http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/135m4a1.jpg[/img] [B]This would be it.[/B] The good folks @ CMMG sold me the 2" Picatinny rail, BUT installed it free on the front tube. Then I just attached the KAC grip to it.
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 10:02:14 AM EDT
nice rifle. 14.5"? The only reason i ask about "one and only" is because this will infact be the first rifle i buy and God only knows when i will have enough money for another one. I like to do things right the first time so i dont regret it later.
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 10:09:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By lorenavedon:
very good point. What then would you consider the shortest barrel that would fit my wants (small package/good performance)? 11.5?
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For TRUE urban combat only, 14.5". For everything else, 18". I know this choice is not popular (even though knowledgable people such as Wes and Paul (MSTN) use 18" barrels on most of their SPR's) by 1963 and the AR-18, ArmaLite had figured out that roughly 3150fps was possible from an 18" barrel. 18" keeps the 'HV" in SCHV insuring adequate penetration and good knock down power. 5sub
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 1:54:15 PM EDT
Have you considered a 9mm or .45 7.5" upper a la MP5 or UMP? I think the pistol calibers handle the short barrels far better than rifle cartridges for accurate CQB fire. I have always wanted to build an American version of the MP5, like the Colt 9mm SMG. [img]http://www.lesales.com/products/Colt_639_SMG_submachine.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 2:56:50 PM EDT
i always had the opinion that if i wanted to shoot 9mm i would use my Glock. In Canada i can't have full auto anyways so a 5 shot 9mm semi-auto rifle would be kind of stupid. I honestly didnt realize that the short barrel like on the KK would effect velocity and knock down power to that extent. No point getting it if it's going to have the same knock down power as my Glock 17. I still want a compact rifle with decent knock down so i'm leaning towards the 11.5" upper. I know people will still say that's not long enough but i like the shorter look and figure that if it's good enough for Spec Ops and Delta, it's good enough for me.
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 4:17:07 PM EDT
If you want a really compact rifle with massive knockdown power in a short barrel, the HK51 has it. I had a chance to fire one of these last year, and it was extremely impressive. The 7.62 round still maintains a punch, even with a short barrel. Downside, they are quite expensive. [img]http://www.urban-armory.com/51a3.JPG[/img]
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 5:59:23 PM EDT
expensive and prohibited in Canada. I started this whole gun thing too late, before i was able to get granfathered into owning these type of rifles so i will never see one no matter what the price. Makes me mad. But yes they are nice for sure and would love one!
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 9:38:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2003 9:41:51 AM EDT by TriggerFish]
Originally Posted By lorenavedon: nice rifle. 14.5"?
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Yes, it is a [I]gen-u-ine[/I] Colt 14.5" M4 upper, KAC M4 Carbine R.A.S. FF w/KAC foregrip, Gemtech QD M4-96D suppressor + compact ACOG. [I]-TF[/I]
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