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Posted: 11/25/2003 7:38:12 PM EDT
Hey guys, I am knew to this forum and have been learning alot from it in the past. I am about to buy an 18"-20" ar15 for bench, coyote hunting. I am interested in the JP Enterprise name. I have been studying alot about them. Does anyone have one or any info? I see alot of adjustable triggers and gas blocks made from them on peoples guns. Also their Bennie Cooley muzzle brake.

I was looking at the CTR-02 model. It is the same as the JP15, but they make their own reciever/lower design with a flared magwell and inverted dovetail joinery on the side of the mag housing.

Please give me as much info that you can. Please give me any cons that you have heard about JP Enterprises, besides being costly. I know, the CTR-02 is about $2200 and the JP15, which is the same thing except Milspec reciever/lower is about $1700. I just rather save money and buy two awesome ar15's than buy 6 ar15's that are mediocre. I had been looking at Les Baer's ar15s but seem to like JP's. Also JP's give you a lot of extras for the money including a muzzle brake,and tactical charging handle. Sorry for making it so long of a post.

Thanks in advance for the info.
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 11:45:33 AM EDT
can anyone give me ANY info of this gun and/or company? Tell me where some pictures are on the net besides their website? Anything? Opinions?
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 12:26:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 12:57:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2003 3:29:02 PM EDT
hello fellow CoonAss: I have a CTR-02 with the 20" mid weight barrel & Bennie Cooley comp., light weight bolt carrier, and all the other goodies. I have fitted it with CQ/T optic. It is a super rifle for IPSC and other rifle competition but it requires a bit more work to maintain and to get it dialed in. Due to the light weight bolt carrier, adjustable gas block, and trigger springs, it is very particular to the type of ammo used. Once you get everything set, it is a great rifle, very accurate and looks super cool. Showing up to a match with is the equivalent to bringing a hot babe - you will get tons of questions as well as a lot of sh*t if you have malfunctions. If it is going to be your only AR, I would advise against getting one and would go with something more mil spec. If it is going to be a varmit gun, JP has a sale on the discontinued upper you could put a 24" 1:8 twist barrel on and build your own for a lot less dough. I'll post some pic.'s later. regards, heron
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 3:32:42 AM EDT
Go with the JP and you won't go wrong. First class products and service. John Gangle is also a competitor (a very good one!) and sponsor for a couple of 3 gun matches. The Les Baer ARs are nice, but not in the same class as the JPs. You do need to play around with different loads to get the most out the JP, but his rifles are shipped with a chamber gage (along with a whole bunch of goodies) dimensioned specifically for the JP.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 4:03:07 AM EDT
Thanks for the comments. I want a gun that I can shoot some rather inexpensive ammo when I want to go to the range and enjoy the smell of gun powder, then if I am going hunting or really sighing in my gun then I can put the good ammo in it. I understand that if I shoot inexpensive ammo, I will not get my 1/2 MOA. But my question is will the gun shoot flawlessly with inexpensive ammo? For example you all may know Dawson Precision's custom 1911s. Well being the ANAL gun collector that I am, I bought one for the accuracy and reliability and of course because it is a work of art. I will shoot easy 3" at 50yards on good ammo, but I can shoot Wolf cheap ammo all day long with zero problems. That is what I want out of the gun. Heron163, I would get the JP tactical operating system if I get a gun, not the low mass system. By me getting the tactical system, will that allow me to shoot normal ammo with no problems? Also, they make a JP15 series that is I guess cut Milspec. Would that get me that "less" tight gun that would not be so particular to what ammo it uses? The main reason for getting the CTR-02 was because of the nice magwell and the inverted dovetail and a few other reasons. But if I cannot shoot what ammo I want in it I don't want it! Thanks
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 6:27:25 AM EDT
This one is gonna get me flamed... You can with a bit of patience build a superior rifle to the JP for about 1/3 the money... NO KIDDING. Now I shoot IPSC three gun. In fact I LIVE for it and I compete with an 14.5 barreled M-4 that I have to shoot 69 grain bullets out of just to make minor because of the short barrel. I am only a C lass pistol shot but I generally run in 1st 2nd or 3rd of the rifle stages overall. I deal with much more muzzle flip than most shooters. been toying with pulling out the SPR for three gun... there is a thought... anyway back to your dilemma. One of my fellow IPSC shooters came back from the gulf and decided that his tricked out bushmaster was not good enough and went out and bought a real live JP for a couple of grand. It is a beauty to be sure and it does shoot like a dream. It is a light blue with all of the bells and whistles. After an extensive couple of shake down shoots it was determined to be just too heavy and is now going to require the barrel to be sent back to JP to be turned down to skin some of the weight out of it, if he doesn't sell it. Hey I know where you can pick one up reasonable. So at this point my friend is back to his Bushmaster quite happily and is believe it or not leaning heavily towards selling the JP. Anyway the moral of this story is for way less money you can build a rifle that will do exactly what you want. Drive nails a ditance and plink with the best of them. If you just want a JP then that is cool and get one but there are other options out there at a LOT less money. If you do decide to build one there is all the info you could ever want right here on this sight with people who are more than willing to share information on exactly how to go about building exactly what you want. Good luck and if ya wanna buy a used JP I know where you probably can. IPSC_GUY sends
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:10:44 AM EDT
I agree. the JP model you're referring to has alot of eye candy but not to much application above your average lower. the dovetail system is proprietary to JP products, in other words...it can only be used with JP accessories (none of which has been created yet) and the enlarged magwell is not not that enlarged over milspec magwells. Great looks but not much application. In fact, it's proprietary design may hinder attaching future upgrades made for milspec lower recievers. I spent alot of time deciding exactly what you are debating on regarding JP and that is the conclusion that I reached.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 8:14:15 AM EDT
I was at my gun range where the owner of JP Enterprises was shooting several of his ar15's, and he let my son and I shoot them, and they indeed are good rifles. He shoots and sponsors 3 gun matches, and knows what he is doing... www.jprifles.com
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 8:34:56 AM EDT
They're great....for match rifles. for tactical or combat applications, I would pass.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 3:45:16 PM EDT
I've been using the CTR-02 W/18" med barrel for 2003 with a TA31 and dont think its to heavy ,even though i had been using a 15" fluted wilson prior.A 20" H-BAR i started with for run and guns ,that was to heavy,but not the JP.The two loads BH 60gr V-MAX and BH 69gr MATCHKING that i used to sight in and still use at matches as always worked from day one.It only tempermental if you dont take more care than normal to keep it clean.That means clean it after every match even if the round count was low ,so therefore for a urban rifle i agree,not a good choice,unless of course you change out the LMOS for reg which JP told me i could do.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 3:56:18 PM EDT
you could, but the floating tube for instance is far from durable. IMHO, JP is probably one of the best match rifles you can get. the original poster mentioned hunting. I wouldn't want to hunt with one though...it's a fairly fragile design and with it's match tolerances, I wouldn't want to get any debris near it. But as for what it was intended for, I'll agree with you that it is worth the dough for match shooting.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 4:14:56 PM EDT
I could sell one with ALL the bells and whistles. It's 100% JP Enterprise, 20 in Cryo barrel. JP comp, trigger, tension pins, Frame/upper, float tube, adjustable gas, firing pin, $300 presentation grade finish. SWEET / EVERYTHING. $2000. In mint condition. Write for pics dbone@ec.rr.com Just making room for a future project.
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 5:59:50 PM EDT
Thank you all for all of your info! I am suprised I got this much help on this subject. I have been beating my brains out over what AR to buy. Just a couple of more questions. Armax, what do you mean when you said jp doesn't have a durable handguard? That was one of the things that I did not really care for from his gun. Second question what kind should I buy? I definitely want something special. I really like the Les Baer. I say Clark custom guns has I pretty nice one also. How about Fulton Armory? They guarantee 1/2" MOA with their Kreiger barrels. Would these be a better choice for tactical and hunting? Not so ammo picky?
Link Posted: 11/28/2003 7:23:18 PM EDT
For close to 5 years now I have been using a JP Enterprises Grade 1(older model) upper assembly on a lower receiver that I built up. I really don't find it to be too terribly bad in terms of reliability. I've run this thing dry as well as wet while using it to bust squirrels and it's chugged through over 200-300 rounds in an afternoon without so much as a hiccup. It averages around 3/4 inch for 10 shot groups at 100 yards with one of it's more favorite handloads(my handloads are pretty basic). Mine is a 24 inch barreled model set more for varminting/bench work but it still knocks the hell out of most things I want to do with it. I have the tank brake on my gun and wound up taking the thing off after a year or two of being fed up with not being able to properly clean the muzzle crown. JP now offers a non-standard post ban compliant thread now if I recall correctly, highly recommend either getting a removable brake or avoiding it all together. You would NOT believe how much crud was on my muzzle crown after close to 2 years of shooting and not being able to clean it properly. The tank brake is the most god awful loud assed muzzle brake you've ever had the displeasure of bearing witness to. No foolin, I've shot this gun exactly TWO times without hearing protection, first was a sort of deliberate thing to see if it was bearable(after which I swore never again) and the second time was purely by mistake. From a low prone, the tank brake will pick up bits of dust and pebbles only to blow them into your face. My gun is a bit unique, many of the more senior members of this board can remember back to 1998 when I was building it up. In it's final form it weighs in at 15 pounds unloaded and is 48 inches in overall length. This gun was my first step into the realm of accurized rifles that have the potential to out perform the user. This was the rifle that I built before I knew what I really wanted or before I was truely educated on the world of accurate AR15s. Ofcourse back in 1998 there were fewer people in the market of making accurized AR15s of this magnitude. If I knew what I know now and had access to the amount of parts that are available now, it is likely my rendition of the ultimate varmint AR15 would be a different animal all together. I don't consider my JP gun to be a mistake, it was simply a learning experience. Today, it is very easy to get a flat out accurate as all heck AR15. Can be as simple as getting an Olympic SUM barrel and throwing it together with the parts of your choosing, total price for the upper probably being a good 200-300 dollars less than a similar JP Enterprises upper that probably won't be any more accurate. It's for these reasons that I believe that the Wilson and Les Baer AR15s are an even bigger rip off. Just johnny come lately types trying to hop on the bandwagon, worse the two previous companies seem to be basing their AR15 prices off of their reputation earned for building 1911s. AR15s simply don't require the type of tuning that a 1911 needs inorder to be both insanely accurate as well as reliable. If you are looking for a 3 gun AR15 as well as one that can serve for varminting/target work, head out to a 3 gun or action rifle match and see what others are shooting. When I shoot 3 gun or action rifle, I yank my 20inch A3 upper off my Bushmaster and install it on my custom built lower of the accurized rifle. In that configuration I get a better fitting stock with superior trigger(the JP single stage trigger/hammer at 3 pounds) but get a reliable and lighter upper assembly. [url]http://home.bak.rr.com/varmintcong/jpar/jpar.html[/url]
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 3:05:55 AM EDT
[quote I understand that if I shoot inexpensive ammo, I will not get my 1/2 MOA. But my question is will the gun shoot flawlessly with inexpensive ammo? [/quote]
Link Posted: 12/7/2003 3:13:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ChevyCoonass: Thanks for the comments. I want a gun that I can shoot some rather inexpensive ammo when I want to go to the range and enjoy the smell of gun powder, then if I am going hunting or really sighing in my gun then I can put the good ammo in it. I understand that if I shoot inexpensive ammo, I will not get my 1/2 MOA. But my question is will the gun shoot flawlessly with inexpensive ammo?
View Quote
No flaming intended, but it would be like buying a Ferrari and use the cheapest gas out there and only put in super high octane for the occasional race track days. Unless specified otherwise, John Gangle builds all of his match rifles with tight chamber, and won't function with all ammo. Worse yet, dirty ammo will doom the rifle's reliability. May be built one from scratch with your choice of components would be a better thing to do. I did that only because I couldn't afford a JP[;)].
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