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Posted: 11/18/2003 2:21:53 PM EDT
I would love to mount a 12ga pump under the barrel of an AR15 much like a grenade launcher. I think this would be a tactically sound way to provide yourself covering fire while reloading. A friend told me that he once saw a mount for this specific purpose. I can't find it now.

Anyone have any input as to how to do this best? I think the mounts would be a straight forward operation. I also think I'll have to cut a barrel shorter than 18" and go through the BATF paperwork for registering such.

Any thoughts at all?

Thanks. dwj
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 2:38:27 PM EDT
Its used for door breaching, thus the name; "Masterkey" [img]www.impactguns.com/store/media/kmc_masterkey.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 10:26:43 PM EDT
On the "providing yourself covering fire while reloading" If you're busy firing the shotgun after the rifle runs dry, how are you going to reload the rifle?
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 10:41:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 10:43:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 10:56:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By davjohns: I would love to mount a 12ga pump under the barrel of an AR15 much like a grenade launcher. I think this would be a tactically sound way to provide yourself covering fire while reloading. A friend told me that he once saw a mount for this specific purpose. I can't find it now. Anyone have any input as to how to do this best? I think the mounts would be a straight forward operation. [blue]I also think I'll have to cut a barrel shorter than 18" and go through the BATF paperwork for registering such.[/blue] Any thoughts at all? Thanks. dwj
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[blue]You will most definitely have to cut the barrel shorter than 18", or you could have the AR barrel be 24". [;)] The thing would look freakish if it were anything other than a 16" or 20" AR with a short-barreled shotgun, not to mention how front-heavy it would be.[/blue]
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 11:31:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 11:32:06 PM EDT by Branspop]
As much as I respect the 870, I have to ask.... Why would you mount a pump down there. If I were inclined to do that, I would think a decent semi-auto would be a wiser choice. It seems to me that racking a pump would be a pain in that position.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 11:53:14 PM EDT
What about mounting a pistol underneath? I suppose that'd be making a SBR..
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 1:02:34 AM EDT
Its a best a bad idea for a breaching tool. It certainly isnt worth what you lose in balance and handling with your AR. You should be seeking cover at all times, and using it to your advantage on a reload. IF there isnt time for that, get your pistol out and finish the fight.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 5:49:16 AM EDT
I really thought you guys would understand me better. You are trying to rationalize my desire. What you don't realize is that you are headed down the Finstein path. She would argue that none of us need our AR's. I argue that we all need bazookas, flame throwers, mortars and all the other goodies. What a polite world we would then live in. We would all be having so much fun (although sleep would be more difficult with all that noise). Oh yeah, the other thing I am trying to figure out is how to build a flame thrower to mount under my AR15. My flare launcher is almost passe at this point. By the way, didn't any of you see the picture posted here? You can't tell me you didn't think that was terribly cool.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 5:54:55 AM EDT
I read somewhere that the Masterkey i spretty much DOA, as it makes the M4/M16 way too muzzle heavy. The Marines were using it as door breaching gun IIRC, but what they found was it was better for a guy to just sling a shotgun and when they needed to breach a door, have him sling his rifle, pull out the shotgun, blast the hinges, and let his buddies go through while he reslung the shotgun and unslung his rifle. Note that the masterkey holds a mere 3 rounds+1 in the chamber, and you would need three hands if I have this figured out- one to reload your AR mag, one to pull the masterkey trigger, and one to operate the pump...
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 5:56:30 AM EDT
I want the dwarf, also. Maybe the blonde in the bustier from Total Recall....
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 8:15:58 AM EDT
The MasterKey works fine. Carrying an extra shotgun strapped around your back and having it bang around your neck and equipment when you are trying to do MOUT operations --especially rappelling-- is a pain in the ass. Anybody complaining about the weapon being "muzzle heavy" should be more concerned about not spilling any CLP on their skirt....
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 8:28:42 AM EDT
And yes, I can say I don't think it looks 'cool'. It looks cumbersome and in the way. I'll pass.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 8:34:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 11:04:55 AM EDT
There are just times that a couple of 12ga rounds cooking off makes everyone stop and reflect. I could always register by flare launcher as a DD and keep flechette rounds, but I just kind of like the shotgun idea. I understand Treetops thought that it looks cumbersome. I'm just used to rucksacks, combat boots, armored vehicles and such. If I were trying to travel light, a glock and lots of rounds would do. dwj
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 11:19:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By XzombeeX: The MasterKey works fine. Carrying an extra shotgun strapped around your back and having it bang around your neck and equipment when you are trying to do MOUT operations --especially rappelling-- is a pain in the ass. Anybody complaining about the weapon being "muzzle heavy" should be more concerned about not spilling any CLP on their skirt....
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Who issued you the Masterkey?
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 11:34:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By XzombeeX: The MasterKey works fine. Carrying an extra shotgun strapped around your back and having it bang around your neck and equipment when you are trying to do MOUT operations --especially rappelling-- is a pain in the ass. Anybody complaining about the weapon being "muzzle heavy" should be more concerned about not spilling any CLP on their skirt....
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[ROFL2] So you do alot of rappelling with the MasterKey?
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 1:07:37 PM EDT
Hell, I like it. Go for it!!!
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 1:33:09 PM EDT
Simple enough... The shotgun is triggered by the mag release and by the reinsertion of the mag. :D
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 3:04:41 PM EDT
That looks kewl, but that why I use a 3 point sling, just drop AR & reach for my 1911, that holstered in my Eagle3 drop holster. TG [;)]
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 8:02:55 AM EDT
Have I ever rapelled down the side of a building with a shotgun mounted under my issued weapon? Uhh....yeah. Many times. Your point?
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 8:49:43 AM EDT
The Masterkey isnt designed for covering yourself while reloading(lol). The name says it all "Masterkey" it's used for blowing doors open so you can storm in with your AR. Of course you can use it to defend yourself if someone surprises you while reloading but that's not what it's designed for, that's why you'd need 3 arms to operate it while reloading. It's a pretty cool looking toy though, surprised non of the action movie clowns havent blown a few doors open with it yet. It costs a pretty penny though but if money is no option you can pick one up here.... http://www.impactguns.com/store/kmc_mws.html
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 9:36:51 AM EDT
IIRC, Greg3 has that wicked suppressed M-16 with the 12 gauge AOW underneath.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 10:23:16 AM EDT
the masterkey shotgun was used as a breeching tool by rangers and other army special mission units, however the benefits of a breecher having one tool to both open doors and fight with seem to outweigh the downside of this weapon, e.g. when your breecherman is down you have to take the whole friggin m4/870 combo off of him and continue to breach. alittle easier with just a short barreleld shotgun on a bungy cord, although i grant you carrying three guns rba medkit etc etc while rappeling gets a little tricky.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 7:36:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2003 7:36:35 AM EDT by XzombeeX]
Originally Posted By vintovka: the masterkey shotgun was used as a breeching tool by rangers and other army special mission units, however the benefits of a breecher having one tool to both open doors and fight with seem to outweigh the downside of this weapon, e.g. when your breecherman is down you have to take the whole friggin m4/870 combo off of him and continue to breach. alittle easier with just a short barreleld shotgun on a bungy cord, although i grant you carrying three guns rba medkit etc etc while rappeling gets a little tricky.
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I named mine "Mary Jane Rottencrotch" [}:D] 2/75 Rangers - Ft. Lewis (92-94)
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 9:26:25 AM EDT
How about mounting a cut down saiga shotgun or one of those other mag fed shotguns that are cheap right now. Give it an even eviler look >:-D
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:05:32 PM EDT
I think that might be a little extreme. just think. It would be like 2 mag fed weapons stuck togeather. Just My .02. JIM
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 3:29:02 PM EDT
Why dont you mount a FAL under your AR or perhaps a multi shot greande launcher. I saw a movie with Chuck Norris where he had a 6 shot grenade launcher under his MP5. That sounds like the ticket for you. When I was a noobie I thought the Master Key looked cool. Now that I am not a noobie I think its the most worthless thing you could put on an AR15... other than a flare launcher. FINAL SUGGESTTION: Rail mounted Halligan tool on the AR! Do you guys think 3 or 9 O'clock would be better?
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 6:57:11 PM EDT
I am so misunderstood. It seems I will not have one, however. I called the BATF today to find out what forms I had to fill out and how much I had to pay. They said none and nothing. Alabama does not allow the possession of a short barrel shotgun, whether you build it or buy it. I now have to contact my legislators to find out how we get this communist law repealed. Guess I'll get my flare launcher registered as a DD now. dwj
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