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Posted: 11/18/2003 12:43:10 PM EDT
I have a 14.5" M4 AR and a 20" Armalite. The Armalite gets the high power scope, and the M4 sim gets the iron sights.

But muy M4 has 5.56 match chambering which is tighter than the Armalite's 5.56 NATO chambering.

Also, considering the barrel length, which gun do you think is more inherently accurate?
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 1:22:45 PM EDT
Barrel length affects velocity, not accuracy. [url]ammo-oracle.com[/url]
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 1:38:30 PM EDT
So, with a longer barrel you still get a better long-range gun because of the greater impact of the bullet.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 1:43:40 PM EDT
As I understand it the shorter barrels are actually more accurate but you do lose muzzle velocity.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 1:59:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 2:00:13 PM EDT by Ridge]
There actually was a good article in Guns magazine this month. However shocking that might be. They took a 300 win mag with 24 inch barrel and tested it for accuracy then hacked off two inches and tested again. The repeated the process untill the rifle had a 16 inch barrel (the cut was always made with a custom proper crown). Conclusion. No suprise to us. No difference in accuracy between any of the barrel lengths. If the only difference is the chamber in your barrels than the shorter barrel should be more accurate with proper ammo. But if you have I higher quality barrel in one and your are using a scope vs non scope. These variables could change the overall results.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 11:10:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 4:01:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2003 7:54:09 AM EDT by GoldtopDude]
Cool, just another reason for me to add that "Dissipator" to my list! [:D]
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 7:07:34 AM EDT
To clarify: All else being equal, shorter barrels are more precise (smaller group size) due to greater stiffness, though I doubt I'm a good enough shooter to demonstrate it. :) Longer barrels and sight radii are more accurate. They enhance the shooter's ability to hit a specific target, by being more stable, having more mass to dampen shooter-induced motion, etc.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 7:57:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2003 7:58:18 AM EDT by GoldtopDude]
Originally Posted By blikbok: To clarify: All else being equal, shorter barrels are more precise (smaller group size) due to greater stiffness, though I doubt I'm a good enough shooter to demonstrate it. :) Longer barrels and sight radii are more accurate. They enhance the shooter's ability to hit a specific target, by being more stable, having more mass to dampen shooter-induced motion, etc.
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Cool, so that means I should have at least one of each! Works for me.[8D]
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 9:01:39 AM EDT
I would say the quality of the barrel is by far the most important factor. i.e. any length Krieger (within reason) is going to out group any length Bushmaster 99% of the time. The difference is that you paid twice as much (if not more) for the Krieger when that money could have been spent on ammo and practice time that probably would have been more benificial to your groups. This is not true however if you can shott high master, then you need the Krieger.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 9:33:38 AM EDT
Yes, there's way more to the equation than barrel length. I'm just on a "shorter barrels aren't less precise" kick thats all over four or so threads. Forgive me ;)
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 9:45:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut: I have a 14.5" M4 AR and a 20" Armalite. The Armalite gets the high power scope, and the M4 sim gets the iron sights. But muy M4 has 5.56 match chambering which is tighter than the Armalite's 5.56 NATO chambering. Also, considering the barrel length, which gun do you think is more inherently accurate?
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So I'm dying to know which one is more accurate? [:D]
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 6:21:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridge:
Originally Posted By clean_cut: I have a 14.5" M4 AR and a 20" Armalite. The Armalite gets the high power scope, and the M4 sim gets the iron sights. But muy M4 has 5.56 match chambering which is tighter than the Armalite's 5.56 NATO chambering. Also, considering the barrel length, which gun do you think is more inherently accurate?
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So I'm dying to know which one is more accurate? [:D]
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The match chambered M4, but the Armalite will beat it when fired cause it has the scope. Put the scope on the M4 and it will most likely kick ass.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 7:29:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2003 7:29:29 PM EDT by Alacrity]
Originally Posted By mideon: I would say the quality of the barrel is by far the most important factor. i.e. any length Krieger (within reason) is going to out group any length Bushmaster 99% of the time. The difference is that you paid twice as much (if not more) for the Krieger when[i] that money could have been spent on ammo and practice time that probably would have been more benificial to your groups.[/i] This is not true however if you can shott high master, then you need the Krieger.
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Amen brother Amen, spread the word. Luck Alac
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 8:20:49 AM EDT
There is an advantage to knowing it's you, not the rifle, while you are learning. :) But I have a rule of expending an accessory's worth in ammo before I buy that accessory. I'm about a billion rounds shy of a ACOG....
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 8:27:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2003 8:28:30 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
Originally Posted By Ridge: There actually was a good article in Guns magazine this month. However shocking that might be. They took a 300 win mag with 24 inch barrel and tested it for accuracy then hacked off two inches and tested again. The repeated the process untill the rifle had a 16 inch barrel (the cut was always made with a custom proper crown). Conclusion. No suprise to us. No difference in accuracy between any of the barrel lengths.
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You left off an important caviot there Ridge: [b][size=5][red]AT 100 yards![/red][/size=5][/b] Start the test over at a 1000 yards, and then tell the results. As noted above, the longer the barrel the higher the velocity which equates IMO, to better/more consistent accuracy at the 1000 yard line. Mike
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 8:38:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
Originally Posted By Ridge: There actually was a good article in Guns magazine this month. However shocking that might be. They took a 300 win mag with 24 inch barrel and tested it for accuracy then hacked off two inches and tested again. The repeated the process untill the rifle had a 16 inch barrel (the cut was always made with a custom proper crown). Conclusion. No suprise to us. No difference in accuracy between any of the barrel lengths.
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You left off an important caviot there Ridge: [b][size=5][red]AT 100 yards![/red][/size=5][/b] Start the test over at a 1000 yards, and then tell the results. As noted above, the longer the barrel the higher the velocity which equates IMO, to better/more consistent accuracy at the 1000 yard line. Mike
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WOW! What size target at 1000 yrds?
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 9:11:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GoldtopDude: WOW! What size target at 1000 yrds?
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The steel plate we use at 1000 yards is about 8'X 16'X 2" thk., spray painted solid white, it has about 12 - 12" yellow painted circles on it, (6 high, 6 low). For me, with the 30-06 a 12" circle is plenty big enough and half that on a good air day or 6" dia., with the 223, I need about a 16" circle (in good air). Gunsmith friend could and does use half the above dimensions, most any day, no matter the caliber (223 and up) with rifles he built. I've witnessed groups of 10 rounds in under 5" from him on numerous occasions. This is at our private range, we have an 800 yard range off Dad's back porch at the farm. Mike
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 9:28:40 AM EDT
Iron sights? As a kid I had a "walk out the backdoor range" Man I miss it!
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 10:37:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2003 10:39:34 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
Originally Posted By GoldtopDude: Iron sights? As a kid I had a "walk out the backdoor range" Man I miss it!
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At dang near 50, "blind in one eye and can't see outta the other", no, I use a scope. However, Tippie, Jon Hollinger, ardvark, x-man and many others here on the "competition" forum can and do shoot "damned well" at these ranges using 20" service rifles, shit they'll come near to outshooting me w/ my 30-06, 6.5x20 Leupy scope Rem 700 at this range. These guys are flat out amazing, the scores they shoot, and all under the pressure of competition. Should you want to know more, I'd suggest ya contact one of them, their the REAL EXPERTS oops, My apologies fellas, their HIGH MASTERS, for the most part. Mike
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 11:11:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
Originally Posted By GoldtopDude: Iron sights? As a kid I had a "walk out the backdoor range" Man I miss it!
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At dang near 50, "blind in one eye and can't see outta the other", no, I use a scope. However, Tippie, Jon Hollinger, ardvark, x-man and many others here on the "competition" forum can and do shoot "damned well" at these ranges using 20" service rifles, shit they'll come near to outshooting me w/ my 30-06, 6.5x20 Leupy scope Rem 700 at this range. These guys are flat out amazing, the scores they shoot, and all under the pressure of competition. Should you want to know more, I'd suggest ya contact one of them, their the REAL EXPERTS oops, My apologies fellas, their HIGH MASTERS, for the most part. Mike
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Hell, I don't know if I could even see the target at that range! Guess I'm an OK shot (25-200yrds) for an old rock&roll guitar player.[8D]
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 11:13:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
Originally Posted By Ridge: There actually was a good article in Guns magazine this month. However shocking that might be. They took a 300 win mag with 24 inch barrel and tested it for accuracy then hacked off two inches and tested again. The repeated the process untill the rifle had a 16 inch barrel (the cut was always made with a custom proper crown). Conclusion. No suprise to us. No difference in accuracy between any of the barrel lengths.
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You left off an important caviot there Ridge: [b][size=5][red]AT 100 yards![/red][/size=5][/b] Start the test over at a 1000 yards, and then tell the results. As noted above, the longer the barrel the higher the velocity which equates IMO, to better/more consistent accuracy at the 1000 yard line. Mike
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I don't have the article with me but the testing was done at different ranges. Out to 600 yds if I recall correctly. And it was an outdoor range.
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