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Posted: 11/11/2003 6:21:23 AM EDT
Just curious. If you had to go into combat and had the choice of any M16 / M4 variant with iron sights ONLY OR any AR15 with any optics you wanted, which would you choose? This came into my mind as I remembered being issued my M16A2 when I got deployed to Bosnia. I'm thinking now I'd have rather have had my DPMS with EoTech/Vertical Grip/FIRSH and tactical light. Do any military units you know of give you the choice of using your own firearms in combat? I know mine wouldn't but we were not a combat unit.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 6:50:33 AM EDT
I would take my AR because it's mine and I know what it's going to do.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 6:53:10 AM EDT
I would take an AR with accessories over an issue weapon with the FA/burst option.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 7:12:28 AM EDT
DITTO, I wished I could have just qualified with my own AR15. I hated the fact that everytime we qualified they gave us a different rifle, and they always had to be re-zeroed. I don't think our unit would have approved of any personal weapons. But I have seen pictures and heard of other people who have taken and used there own uppers, in Bosnia, Afganistan, and Iraq.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 9:37:42 AM EDT
I sent FREEFALLE6 an IM. He just recently returned from combat duty and could possibly shed light on your question. I too, would like to have my own weapon. With the preban features restored ofcourse!
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 9:52:05 AM EDT
The AR
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 10:02:10 AM EDT
how about a mixture of both... my upper or optic on a M-16 lower of any type? After shooting the M-16 I havd an appreciation for just how effective one would be in combat if your life needed the ability to lay out a volume of fire. I will never need to make this choice but I would settle for my upper or optics mounted on a military upper if I could go that way!
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 11:31:04 AM EDT
well..does it really matter? As a grunt I never put my M16a1/a2 on FA/burst. We had SAW's and 60's for that stuff. Motto "one shot, one kill" well, we trained "two to the chest, one to the head". Open field, optics would be nice. CQB I got pretty good at point and shoot. never used optics. never missed. So unless the hords are flooding the gates of hell and spray and pray is the order of the day don't /have'nt needed FA but because the FED's say that after I leave the military I can't have them I say Dame The Man I'll take both times 5.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 11:48:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/11/2003 11:49:00 AM EDT by SGTIMAK]
There was no need to bring my own. We already had AGOGs, PEQ-2s, Surefires, Comp Ms, vertical grips, tac slings, etc. Heck They even issue M1A/M14s I know some people brought long range uppers with them, and I almost took a .458 upper with me.[;)] I don't think I'd bring my own, regardless of what accessories I was issued, as the only must have accessory to me was the PEQ2, which I don't own.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 11:53:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/11/2003 11:54:13 AM EDT by DaPhotoGuy]
Originally Posted By SGTIMAK: There was no need to bring my own. We already had AGOGs, PEQ-2s, Surefires, Comp Ms, vertical grips, tac slings, etc. Heck They even issue M1A/M14s I know some people brought long range uppers with them, and I almost took a .458 upper with me.[;)] I don't think I'd bring my own, regardless of what accessories I was issued, as the only must have accessory to me was the PEQ2, which I don't own.
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So if I read you right, you would rather have an issued fixed carry handle M16A2 with no optics than a Bushmaster M4gery with ACOG? Does look like you answered one question though. SOME units allow the soldiers to bring their own firearms (at least uppers).
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 11:57:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shooter0311: well..does it really matter? As a grunt I never put my M16a1/a2 on FA/burst. We had SAW's and 60's for that stuff. Motto "one shot, one kill" well, we trained "two to the chest, one to the head". Open field, optics would be nice. CQB I got pretty good at point and shoot. never used optics. never missed. So unless the hords are flooding the gates of hell and spray and pray is the order of the day don't /have'nt needed FA but because the FED's say that after I leave the military I can't have them I say Dame The Man I'll take both times 5.
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To each their own I guess. In seven years of service I qualified expert every time I went to the range with my M16A2 but I'd STILL rather have my EoTech. It's just faster. BUIS in case I needed them of course.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 12:16:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:
Originally Posted By SGTIMAK: There was no need to bring my own. We already had AGOGs, PEQ-2s, Surefires, Comp Ms, vertical grips, tac slings, etc. Heck They even issue M1A/M14s I know some people brought long range uppers with them, and I almost took a .458 upper with me.[;)] I don't think I'd bring my own, regardless of what accessories I was issued, as the only must have accessory to me was the PEQ2, which I don't own.
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So if I read you right, you would rather have an issued fixed carry handle M16A2 with no optics than a Bushmaster M4gery with ACOG? Does look like you answered one question though. SOME units allow the soldiers to bring their own firearms (at least uppers).
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Well... I said I wouldn't bring my own weapon, regardless of accessories issued. Didn't say I'd leave my own accessories behind. My issue weapon is an M4 but an M16 would suit me fine. Part of the reason is I'd rather bang up the gov'ts toys than my own. I can shoot just fine with irons. To me they're quicker than the CompM for close work. The main thing I used the ACOG for was rangefinding, because it was more convinient that taking out binos. It's a cool optic, but I could survive without it. Besides, I'm in a heavy weapons company, so anything I'd need magnification for would be taken care of with my MK-19/M2 first. Now, if I owned a PEQ2 or PAQ4, and was not issued one... that would definitely come with me.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 12:28:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/11/2003 12:31:56 PM EDT by DaPhotoGuy]
Originally Posted By SGTIMAK:
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:
Originally Posted By SGTIMAK: There was no need to bring my own. We already had AGOGs, PEQ-2s, Surefires, Comp Ms, vertical grips, tac slings, etc. Heck They even issue M1A/M14s I know some people brought long range uppers with them, and I almost took a .458 upper with me.[;)] I don't think I'd bring my own, regardless of what accessories I was issued, as the only must have accessory to me was the PEQ2, which I don't own.
View Quote
So if I read you right, you would rather have an issued fixed carry handle M16A2 with no optics than a Bushmaster M4gery with ACOG? Does look like you answered one question though. SOME units allow the soldiers to bring their own firearms (at least uppers).
View Quote
Well... I said I wouldn't bring my own weapon, regardless of accessories issued. Didn't say I'd leave my own accessories behind. My issue weapon is an M4 but an M16 would suit me fine. Part of the reason is I'd rather bang up the gov'ts toys than my own. I can shoot just fine with irons. To me they're quicker than the CompM for close work. The main thing I used the ACOG for was rangefinding, because it was more convinient that taking out binos. It's a cool optic, but I could survive without it. Besides, I'm in a heavy weapons company, so anything I'd need magnification for would be taken care of with my MK-19/M2 first. Now, if I owned a PEQ2 or PAQ4, and was not issued one... that would definitely come with me.
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I understand you now. For me, I'd want the weapon that would give me the best chance of staying alive whether it be issued or my own. My life is worth more than my AR. Oh, BTW, NEVER call an M16 or M4 a toy. I don't want to go into what happened to the last guy that called his AR a TOY. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 12:34:03 PM EDT
What happened to the last guy who called it that? *Glances over to tree shredder* Anywho, I would probably choose an M-16A2, as usual, but with a TA01 ACOG mounted to the carry handle.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 2:57:48 PM EDT
Well in the 82nd you cant take your own weapons (M4s are expensive better to use Uncle sams toys)or have a choice as to what you take. We use the Colt M4. The optics are mostly aimpoints and a few acogs. I personaly took my own NSN Acog and optima combo. I loved it! It was always there when and if I needed. I would suggest the doctor red dot instead of the Optima. I had no problems with mine but, the Optima made of plastic so the Doctor is the way to go) metal frame and better batt life). They have no problem with soldiers using their own optics as long as its something funtional and durable. FREE [img]http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL16/709417/1941368/34130558.jpg[/img] [img]http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL16/709417/1941368/25450299.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 3:04:14 PM EDT
Sorry guys smartass alert! I mean me. Hey Free how many Bushmaster M4 carbines did ya see? [;D]
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 3:15:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/11/2003 3:16:36 PM EDT by FREEFALLE6]
None hehe I did see a few FN M16a2's the Airforce and Nat Guard had them. I wish the Afgans had some bushmasters they would have made a good soveneir[:D] FREE
Originally Posted By Spooge5150: Sorry guys smartass alert! I mean me. Hey Free how many Bushmaster M4 carbines did ya see? [;D]
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Link Posted: 11/11/2003 5:18:24 PM EDT
delta force can use what ever they want
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 7:10:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 22LR10xxx: delta force can use what ever they want
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I suppose you know this because you are a Navy SEAL and spent 13.5 years in Delta first...
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 10:14:36 PM EDT
I've had the need for FA in the past and no doubt about it I like the M16A1 or M4 the best. Probably the M4 over the M16A1... I like compact.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 11:37:51 PM EDT
I would take a plane jane M4A1 Fixed carry handle and iron sights. No use for a lot of those sights, irons were fine on my issued weapon. Also my number was asigned to me on my issue m16a2 and had that only weapon with no sight adjustments for 4 years.
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