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Posted: 11/9/2003 12:13:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2003 12:15:53 AM EDT by Lockedon]
From what I've read, the AR-180 is far more reliable than the AR-15. That is why all newer gun designs are based off it, ie: G36, XM8, M17s, etc...
So if the AR-180 is better than the AR-15, why didn't it ever take off like it's brother did?
What are some of the con's of the AR-180


Can someone do a side-to-side comparison on the two? (oh boy this one's gonna get a lot of sarcasm )

Thanks


Link Posted: 11/9/2003 2:35:31 AM EDT
[puke]
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 4:58:28 AM EDT
I owned a Sterling back in the '70's and thought it was a neat little gun. Very accurate and mine never jammed. That said, I own 3 preban Bushies and a Sendra I built up myself and they never jam either. I believe the concensus is that the gun had a lot of potential and had someone taken the time and money to develope it, it could have been competative with anything out there. Such was not the case, as it was never adopted in any numbers. As it stood, it was prone to parts breakage, especially in the fire control parts (hammer frequently split right up the middle) and the fact that it took a magazine close to but not identical to the AR mag hurt it. There was also a small spike sticking out of the left side of the receiver to catch and hold the folding stock that was forever gettting in the way. The lockup for the stock was a poor design as well, and would loosen up over time. The G36/XM8 do appear to use the bolt and gas piston, so perhaps the design is finally getting some attention.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 7:58:46 AM EDT
I wouldn't mind buying an AR-180 in addition to my AR but only if it came in a carbine version and had a chrome-lined barrel.It would also be nice if you could install the ACE stocks on them.The AR-180 is really only a niche item and will probably remain one until they offer different versions or companies start making accessories for them.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 7:59:59 AM EDT
Lockedon, the AR-18 was developed to be manufactured by third world countries. In the early 60's, the Soviet Union, the US and allies were practically giving away AK-47's, M-14's, etc., to any country that would take them so there was no foreign market for the AR-18. The US military ran tests at more than one Army base. I was fortunate enough to meet a former Army sergeant who was part of the tests done at Fort Knox. He told me the troops doing the actual testing loved the weapon but the tests were altered further up the chain of command to reflect an inadequate weapon. Today, one current AR-15 type weapons manufacturer uses a portion of the AR-18/AR-180 gas system. Quick history: The forerunner of the AR-18 was the AR-16 in 7.62 designed by Eugene Stoner. The AR-18 was designed in 1963 by ArmaLite's ART Miller. The AR-180 was manufactured by: ArmaLite, Costa Mesa Howa, Japan (Under license from ArmaLite) Sterling, England (Under license from ArmaLite) From all three manufacturers, about 20,000 AR-180's were made. I've owned AR-180's made by all three manufacturers and found them, functionally, about the same. 5sub P.S. I only know one person who has all the data and knowledge to make a legitimate side-by-side comparison and I doubt that he would be willing.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 12:48:02 PM EDT
Just to add a little. From programs I have watched and articles I read, Armalite had made the AR18 to try to compete with the M16 and make some money after they had sold the patent for the M16 to Colt. I have also read that the I.R.A. loved the rifle and cleed it the "Widowmaker". As far as the new AR-180's that Armalite is making, I have heard that they have had a lot of problems with them. I know the release date has been set back several times because of problems.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 12:59:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hollywood304: Just to add a little. As far as the new AR-180's that Armalite is making, I have heard that they have had a lot of problems with them. I know the release date has been set back several times because of problems.
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The AR-180B has been out for about a year now so I'm not sure what you're talking about ??
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 1:22:06 PM EDT
So what exactly is the difference between the AR-18 and the AR-180?
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 1:29:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lockedon: So what exactly is the difference between the AR-18 and the AR-180?
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The AR-18 is select-fire (capable of full-auto) and the AR-180 is semi-auto only.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 4:24:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By Lockedon: So what exactly is the difference between the AR-18 and the AR-180?
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The AR-18 is select-fire (capable of full-auto) and the AR-180 is semi-auto only.
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Also the AR18 had the hinged folding stock, whereas the AR180, being postban, has a fixed buttstock. I have read that the Bushmaster M17S has essentially the same action as the AR180/AR18.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 5:27:52 PM EDT
Both AR18's and AR180's had the side folding stock, it was the only way they came. The AR180 was very much a preban, production stopping looong before the ban. The new AR180B is a post ban and uses quite a few AR15 parts as well as it's magazine.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 5:28:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By Lockedon: So what exactly is the difference between the AR-18 and the AR-180?
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The AR-18 is select-fire (capable of full-auto) and the AR-180 is semi-auto only.
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Also the AR18 had the hinged folding stock, whereas the AR180, being postban, has a fixed buttstock.
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_DR, no the AR-180 also has the hinged stock just like the AR-18. The AR-180B is the postban with the fixed stock.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 5:31:01 PM EDT
anyone own one of these? anyone own a robinson M96 Recon™ Carbine? the flexibility of the AR platform keeps me from the ar-180... but who knows... :)
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 5:52:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Beowulf: The new AR180B is a post ban and uses quite a few AR15 parts as well as it's magazine.
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Yep. ArmaLite wanted interchangeability with the AR-15 in the AR-180B's lower receiver and also wanted to tap into the plentiful supply of M-16 mags.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 10:53:28 PM EDT
Got rid of my 180b awhile ago. here are some of my observations: 1) The gas block is fixed on the barrel by two screws. If the screws are loose, the gas block can rotate. i don't think this is a good idea becasuse the gas block tends to get banged when the rifle is carried around. 2) The handguard opened up where the gas piston exhausts to the atmoshpere. The mirage from the hot gas really screws up the site picture, especially in the winter.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 11:33:35 PM EDT
Also I think the Ar-180b uses the same trigger parts, So you can drop a nice match trigger in and I think it uses the same sights, but I could be wrong on the sights.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 12:50:56 AM EDT
"My Little ArmaLite" "And it's down in the Bogside, that's where I long to be, Lying in the dark with a Provo company, A comrade on me left and another on me right And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite. I was stopped by a soldier, said he, You are a swine, He beat me with his baton and he kicked me in the groin, I bowed and I scraped, sure me manners were polite But all the time I'm thinking of me little Armalite. And it's down in Crossmaglen, sure that's where I long to be, Lying in the dark with a Provo company, A comrade on me left and another on me right And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite . Sure a brave RUC man came up into our street Six hundred British soldiers were gathered round his feet Come out, ye cowardly Fenians, said he, come out and fight. But he cried, I'm only joking, when he heard the Armalite. Sure it's down in Kilwilkie, that's where I long to be, Lying in the dark with a Provo company, A comrade on me left and another on me right And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite. Sure, the army came to visit me, 'twas in the early hours, With Saladins and Saracens and Ferret armoured cars They thought they had me cornered, but I gave them all a fright With the armour piercing bullets of my little Armalite. And it's down in the Falls Road, that's where I long to be, Lying in the dark with a Provo company, A comrade on me left and another on me right And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite. When Tuzo came to Belfast, he said, The battle's won, Said General Ford, We're winning sir, we have them on the run. But corporals and privates on patrol at night, Said, Send for reinforcements, it's the bloody Armalite. And it's up in Ballymurphy, that's where I long to be, Lying in the dark with a Provo company, A comrade on me left and another on me right And a clip of ammunition for my little Armalite.
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[banana]
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 3:39:12 AM EDT
5sub P.S. I only know one person who has all the data and knowledge to make a legitimate side-by-side comparison and I doubt that he would be willing. Lemme guess....M.W.?
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 4:18:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ghostface: 5sub P.S. I only know one person who has all the data and knowledge to make a legitimate side-by-side comparison and I doubt that he would be willing. Lemme guess....M.W.?
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Yep !! (Although I did remember last night that the AR-18 patents were in Dorchester, Sullivan and Miller's name so that means Jim Sullivan could also do it. That makes two !!)
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 5:36:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2003 5:44:15 AM EDT by ANGST]
All I can say is my Sterling AR-180 eats crappy milsurp ammo that my and my friend's ARs (Bushmasters) would never eat. [img]http://tasty.cornbread.com/~angst/ARScope.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 9:53:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ANGST: All I can say is my Sterling AR-180 eats crappy milsurp ammo that my and my friend's ARs (Bushmasters) would never eat. [url]http://tasty.cornbread.com/~angst/ARScope.jpg[/url]
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ANGST, I would be embarrased to admit how many AR-180's I've owned. A good many times when I and a brand X AR-15 owner were both shooting 55grn milsurp, it was not me and my AR-180 that got embarrased at the range. Good to see you acquired a scope as that's really the way the AR-180 was intended to be shot. 5sub
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