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Posted: 11/8/2003 7:55:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 7:56:27 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]
The TV is great for rifle drills/snap shots!

I'm using my Aimpoint and dry firing selected targets as they pop up on TV. Doesn't matter what show you're watching, just decide ahead of time what your targets will be; heads, wheels on cars, lamps, the bad guy in the show....[Mel Brooks]whatever![/Mel Brooks]

Hold your rifle at the ready and bring it up when your target presents itself, then squeeze a shot! If you've practiced trigger squeeze you'll know if you missed.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 8:01:57 PM EDT
I remeber there was a thread about negligent discharges a while back and if I'm not mistaken this type of thing was the cause for more than a few of them.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 8:06:47 PM EDT
I hope AR cycled without ammo in it so I can dry fire many many times [:D]
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 8:09:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gun_Addict: I remeber there was a thread about negligent discharges a while back and if I'm not mistaken this type of thing was the cause for more than a few of them.
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If you're an idiot and don't respect safety, sure you could load a live round, but it takes an idiot to not clear his weapon first. [b]The safety is between your ears.[/b]
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 8:14:01 PM EDT
I wonder what's on the other side of the wall from your TV?
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 8:14:54 PM EDT
First rule of thumb, never cover anything with the muzzle you don't want to destroy. A real weapon and game playing should never be allowed. Once a rifle discharges, there is not reset button, nor take backs. Bottom line is that you need to respect the weapon, and not use it to play cowboys and Indians (or make believe sharp shooter), even if it's unloaded. We all teach by examples, and the one you have just posted, really makes me wonder what else you may be passing on to others. Dano
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 8:28:54 PM EDT
[img]http://www.algonet.se/~earflaps/bowie/tv991117.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 8:30:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
Originally Posted By WARDOG7366: I wonder what's on the other side of the wall from your TV?
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[blue]Oh my goodness, do you really want to know? Would you like to come inspect, or do you think that people shoulden't own guns because of a suggestion that involves safety first? Safety in this type of drill goes w/o saying [u]unless you think you should check up on people, or have Gov. agencys check up on people[/u]
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.[/blue] [brown][size=4]WTFO?[/size=4][>:/][u]Inspect your house?[/u][b]You're a bit touchy eh?[/b][%|] I was replying to your quote and you edited it. I'll leave it at that so I don't hijack your thread.[/brown]
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 8:32:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 8:37:00 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]
Originally Posted By WARDOG7366: [brown][size=4]WTFO?[/size=4][>:/][u]Inspect your house?[/u][b]You're a bit touchy eh?[/b][%|] I was replying to your quote and you edited it. I'll leave it at that so I don't hijack your thread.[/brown]
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I wasn't expecting negative critisism on this thread and I though you were dishing it out...sorry! [BD] Misguided response deleted!
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 8:47:56 PM EDT
The military teaches solders to engage pop up targets to instill reflex shooting. This allows solders to engage a real hard target (people) by reflex alone, before they have time to ponder on the outcome of shooting another human being. Your practice has painted a living person on the target, and is mentally, one step closer to the same results as the military training of paper pop-up targets. Boom stick, your teaching yourself something that you don't want to learn, subconsciously your instilling Moral Flexibility in your self/mind.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 9:00:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 9:01:25 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]
Originally Posted By Dano523: Boom stick, your teaching yourself something that you don't want to learn, subconsciously your instilling Moral Flexibility in your self/mind.
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You've got to be joking. You're saying I am bluring the lines between friend and foe and will be unable to distinguish between the two? Moral flexibility is only resident in the head of a sociopath or potential/up-and-coming sociopath.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:02:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 10:03:24 PM EDT by SpentShellz]
I was actually stupid enough to do this with a BB gun "when i was younger"..... And you may have already guessed it id had a "silent BB in it..lol..i did not know... i shot the god dam TV and it chipped it ...that's my story on the subject. spentshellz
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:16:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 10:24:26 PM EDT by Gun_Addict]
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick: [b]The safety is between your ears.[/b]
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It's quite clear your safety if missing. The most important fire arms safty rule is never point a gun at somthing you don't want dead and or destroyed. You can compleatly forget all the other safety rules and still not kill any one when you have a nagligent discharge if you fallow this one rule. [b]ALWAYS ASSUME YOUR RIFLE WILL FIRE WHEN YOU PULL THE TRIGGER![/B] Edited to add: Even if you "Cleared" your rifle you should always treat it like it's loaded. If your laxed in you safety when the gun is not loaded it WILL cause you to be less careful when it is. [b]YOU ARE MAKING YOUR WEAPON JUST ANOTHER TOY GUN IN YOUR SUBCONSIOUS[B/]
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:22:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 10:23:59 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]
Originally Posted By Gun_Addict: [b]ALWAYS ASSUME YOUR RIFLE WILL FIRE WHEN YOU PULL THE TRIGGER![/B]
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Well no sh*t sherlock, but have you ever DRY FIRED your rifle/pistol at home?! Tell me you don't, oh please tell me you don't dry fire off the range.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:26:02 PM EDT
I dry fire all the time. But Im smart enough to verify repeatdly, and I use the fireplace as my back stop.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:27:23 PM EDT
Of course I dry fire at home. But its never at a t.v. or anything else that will cause distractions and misstakes. It usaly is pointed at a cement wall in my basment.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:31:08 PM EDT
I guess a TV and a house wall wouldn’t stop a .223? [b]Not to mention a magazine and a round is not anywhere present in the room!![/b] You don’t check your rifle before you point it at the fireplace? How does a TV and a fireplace effect conscience safety?
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:36:58 PM EDT
When you dry fire you should NOT be thinking: "My guns is unloaded there for I wont destroy my T.V. What you should think and I do is: My rife has a round chamberd and when I pull the trigger it is because I want it to fire into what Im am aiming at. The point isn't that I think you round will leave the room and kill some one. The point is that you are subconsiously teaching your self that it's ok to aim at some thing you don't want to blast becuase the rifle wont fire anyway.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:40:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gun_Addict: Of course I dry fire at home. It usaly is pointed at a cement wall in my basment.
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Dry firing goes beyond trigger discipline, if you don’t have something to aim at you cant realize a sight picture! A plain old wall may provide you a trigger pull but you have to have a target too! Granted a TV image only goes so far but it provides a semi-moving target for dry firing. Damn, go to a range where they have mechanical moving targets if you want, but us poor people have to improvise.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:43:28 PM EDT
Tape + a wall + a target = [b]SOMTHING TO AIM AT.[/B] I am probley more poor than you I have about five dallars to my name.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:47:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 10:49:51 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]
Originally Posted By Gun_Addict: When you dry fire you should NOT be thinking: "My guns is unloaded there for I wont destroy my T.V. The point is that you are subconsiously teaching your self that it's ok to aim at some thing you don't want to blast becuase the rifle wont fire anyway.
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If you cant tell the difference thats OK, but some of us can. It's called situational awareness. I know when my firearm is loaded and when it's safe to dryfire. Maybe that makes you feel unsafe...therefore you shoulden't try my suggestion.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:51:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 10:58:37 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]
Originally Posted By Gun_Addict: Tape + a wall + a target = [b]SOMTHING TO AIM AT.[/B]
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OK, tell me the difference between your wall and your TV? BOTH inanimate objects. Maybe the TV is a little more expensive to fix/replace, but thats neither here nor there if you're SAFE and aware. Besides, do you plan on shooting stationary targets when your life depends on it?
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 3:31:21 AM EDT
a center hit on a 20" TV will stop a 45 ACP cold .I have seen it first hand,a friend of mine wasted a TV once and I learned from his mistake.Since then I will not dryfire weapons in the house even if I am sure there cleared.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 6:04:52 AM EDT
I wonder what's on the other side of the wall from your TV?
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Actually most TVs are capable of stopping 5.56mm and 7.62x39mm rifle rounds with no problem at all. Any type of TV/monitor display using a conventional picture tube makes a very effective, if expensive, backstop. Combine that with the ability to rapidly project different pictures and I think they are perfect for the type of training Boom_Stick is talking about; but then again I wouldn't cry too many tears if I blew my TV into oblivion. If that is the type of thing that would break your heart, then the advice of not pointing a rifle at it is solid; but be aware that picture tube TVs (and tube-based computer montiors)are a more effective backstop than just about anything else in most households.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 6:43:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2003 6:45:31 AM EDT by jimtash9]
Are you nuts 'cause I'm not shooting my TV. I'll just come over and practice on yours and if something happens and you get mad at me, I can always go home and watch TV.[naughty]
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 7:15:01 AM EDT
Ya know, FWIW, Jeff Cooper mentions he does exactly this, except he uses the O or 0 in commercials. Caveats apply. Luck Alac
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 7:26:23 AM EDT
Agree with Boom_Stick and dry fire all the time with the tv. I even keep and empty mag in place to practice changing mags. As far as the "moral flexability", if that was the case, then you guys would be ok shooting just black or white dots and could not actually shoot a human being.[;D]
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 7:35:01 AM EDT
Bah, everyone seems to be bitching about safety. A TV will stop small caliber (5.56x45, 7.62x39) rounds quite effectively And if he does ND into his TV, he will probably be better off, no liberal TV to poison his mind, and he will be WAY more careful in the future. I personally shoot my TV all the time go to a pawn shop, grab a $10 special, and have fun later.... they make great targets
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 8:42:41 AM EDT
Except that you are using a rifle capable of firing live rounds, there's no difference in what you're suggesting than the type of simulation training that is becoming the standard. Problem is in making the rifle safe. Good arguments on both sides of the aisle.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 2:37:22 PM EDT
This issue is covered by most competent firearm instructors. Dry PRACTICE is GOOD. Dry FIRING is BAD. When you are going to dry PRACTICE you need to turn off the TV and anything else that will distract you from your training. After insuring the firearm is unloaded, you need to establish a target. Your target should never be a permanent fixture of your home or other locations that you use for dry practice (such as door knobs, TV’s, clocks ect) The danger in using permanent fixtures is that after you are done with your dry practice the target is still there. You WILL be tempted to do “one more” drill. And you WILL blow a hole in it. This has happened in the hotels and bunk houses at Gun Sight and several other training facilities over the last few years. A paper target that you can put up and take down is best but just about anything that can be set up and put away will work. Or you can do as you have always done and ignore the lessons learned the hard way by those who have gone before you. (This is a nice way of saying: Stay a dumb ass)
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 3:43:58 PM EDT
i found snap shooting is better practiced on kids, they are small, fast and plentiful
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 4:09:16 PM EDT
It's only dangerous if your an Elvis impersonator! [:D]
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 5:47:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2003 5:49:24 PM EDT by Exmarine]
Originally Posted By cykho2001: i found snap shooting is better practiced on kids, they are small, fast and plentiful
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[rofl] Actually I have done this with my Ar in a "safe" mode the best shows are the liberal talk shows.[50] Actually I think the Idea has some merit but youre still limiting youre movement and possible target area with a TV Ive always liked the Idea of shoot and move drills at appropriate ranges but what ever practice or scenario you use is still better than not at all. Although funny I think some might frown on you using their chillens for snap shootin and the liberals would have a field day with that.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 8:35:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SpentShellz: I was actually stupid enough to do this with a BB gun "when i was younger"..... And you may have already guessed it id had a "silent BB in it..lol..i did not know... i shot the god dam TV and it chipped it ...that's my story on the subject. spentshellz
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Oh so you shot JR, of Dallas. LOL JK
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 10:33:46 PM EDT
I would cry if I shot my big screen !!
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 5:27:48 AM EDT
The danger in using permanent fixtures is that after you are done with your dry practice the target is still there. You WILL be tempted to do “one more” drill. And you WILL blow a hole in it. This has happened in the hotels and bunk houses at Gun Sight and several other training facilities over the last few years.
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The danger in the above scenario isn't permanent fixtures, it is complaceny and no type of dry firing practice will ever be safe if a person is complacent about it. Rather than not use a permanent fixture like a TV, which does offer some benefits to training that conventional targets can't match (and is also a good backstop), isn't the answer to set a defined beginning and end to training and use appropriate safety? Even if complaceny should lead to a negilgent discharge, the TV is a lot more capable of stopping the round without further harm than most other household fixtures and almost any wall you could hang a target on.
Or you can do as you have always done and ignore the lessons learned the hard way by those who have gone before you. (This is a nice way of saying: Stay a dumb ass)
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Well the dumbass who suggested it to me was Jeff Cooper, founder of Gunsite. "As hunting season approaches, it is well to remember that it is not necessary to conduct all your rifle practice on the range. All sorts of things may be simulated at home, especially including the acquisition of position, bolt work, and the use of the sling. One particularly good drill is to sit before the televisor with the rifle across your lap and to use the commercials for dry practice. Anytime a zero or an o appears on the screen it is up to you to pick it up in your sights, squeeze off a perfectly delivered simulation, snap the bolt and hit it again before it leaves the screen. This is a very effective way to balance speed against precision, since you must not squeeze off a miss, but you do not know how long that zero is going to stay on the screen. I do not watch a lot of television, but I try to get in a couple of weeks of this every time before I go hunting." [url=www.dvc.org.uk/~johnny/jeff/jeff1_6.html]Cooper's Commentaries Vol 1. No. 6[/url]
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 5:36:30 AM EDT
The problem with dry firing is that you can develop a lot of bad habits if you do not do it properly. Just sitting around and dry firing at the TV is about as good a way to develop bad habits as you can get.
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